Large Cents bringing "stupid" money?

DesertLizard

Call it the registry effect but look at this large cent and tell me it is a 65 and worth near 4k+? Flattened stars, stain on the bust, streaky color.

It's a pop top with 2 at 65. The Heritage auction has 2 others I was watching like this one and they also are getting stupid money. What are people thinking?!!

I know what I am thinking, I am going to sell my Large Cent MS65 RD [as in fire engine red] I bought less than 12 months ago for $1,800. It too is a pop top.

Cam40

I have to disagree.Almost all the stars are sharp.Its uncirculated.If its being called RD it must be a market designation.Its more RB.I love the red around the nose.Also I,d expect the color to be streaky or otherwise for a 72 year old copper cent.
Worth $4k+?I,m sure it is to some highend early-copper collector.I,m almost there myself.

Singapore

<< <i>I have to disagree.Almost all the stars are sharp.Its uncirculated.If its being called RD it must be a market designation.Its more RB.I love the red around the nose.Also I,d expect the color to be streaky or otherwise for a 72 year old copper cent.
Worth $4k+?I,m sure it is to some highend early-copper collector.I,m almost there myself. >>



I'd have to agree with old Desert Lizard on this one -

The coin may be a technical 65 per PCGS standards (or NGC or whoever), but this is precisely the kind of coin that would have been called unc. or choice unc. with hints of red years ago and considered nothing really special.

Now its the 'finest known' and commanding a huge premium.

dorkkarl

"stupid" money? i doubt it. i also doubt that this coin can be called "finest known", but an ms-65 rb randall coin, the most common, would run you well over a grand. this date is MUCH more scarce in gem. i would value the coin well above $2000, if i owned it.

K S

dorkkarl

that's 1 he11uva strike, too.

K S

Placid

Thing is with Heritage you never know if the price is because someone bid it up or if it's the reserve making the price until after the auction.
I had one coin on my watch list that I had the only bid of $30 dollars on and yesterday it went to $1,500 and shows two bids.

gmarguli

I don't know about this coin, but last night I checked a few of the auctions I am tracking and stupid money doesn't begin to describe the prices being paid for nice toned coins.

crito

I like the color. So original, in a market flooded with "enhanced" red garbage (in reputable holders), that "stupid" money may be in order

tradedollarnut

Hmmm - six of these or one 1963 proof cent. Tough choice!

becker

To go back over what we all already know, the business side of the hobby runs in cycles. For as long as I've been at it, the tendency seems to buy high and sell higher. Only a fool buys gold at $250, but it's an intelligent purchase at $350.

Every dog has its day. By any measure, common date Large cents are not rare coins. They are charming coins. They are old coins. a variety of books and clubs have promoted the dickens out of large cents primarly because the coins are available. I once bought a group of five fully red common date large cents. I had never seen better and so I paid $145. per coin. After living with my mistakes for six months I sold them for $110 each and watched with some pleasure as the new owner died with them in his bourse case.

Back then, when discussing Large cents most collectors didn't care. I learned this the hard way. Now that Big Pennies are the darlings of the marketplace. I must question the interest. Who really cares and how long will they be able to sustain their interest?

As a dealer, I buy coins based on the tentative assumption that I'm not the ultimate consumer and that somebody I can locate is willing to pay more for the coin. What I don't expect to find is a greater fool or to be one.

By the way, do you have any PCGS slabbed MS-68 Ikes?

Thanks for posting this very interesting thread.

Best regards,
Tom Becker

merz2

As a fan of copper coins,I have to ask.Where is the eye appeal ? Even if the strike is MS,the stain on her neck is horrible.I just don't see a MS65 coin there.I'm no expert on Large Cents but I have a beautiful PCGS 1854 AU58 Dark choclate brown one that looks tons better than that one.
Opps!!!!

Bulldog

Here I go again, Damn this flame suit is about burned out. In my opinion, and my opinion only.

I feel quite sure that on the very high end stuff,. A lot of chicanery and hype goes on that artificially raises the prices and interest in any one item or type of item.

Hell lots of people will pay a high premium, just because "Mr. so and so"(celebrity coin) was the once proud owner of this coin. How does the value of a previous owner equate to the technical grade and value of a coin. Of course if it was a past President, Movie star or Dillinger, then perhaps, well I aint sure.

Look at the great interest in CC Dollars right now!

Anybody talking much about those wonderfull PCGS 911 coins any more? I don't hear much!

Unique is nice, but when it, Unique costs me tons of dough, and I don't have the same vehicle of hype, as the big boyz do. I am going to die with my unique item, or loose heavily with the resale of my unique item.

Well i don't want to die, but I shall. I don't want to loose, so I wont!

Bulldog

Coin Finder

I like the surfaces that I can see. Not a bad coin. The flatten stars are probably "as struck"

Tom Becker has sold me some nice old coppers over time, I still have them!

Tbig

DesertLizard

Very interesting opinions! Thanks for the feedback.

I personally think the coin is nice [except for the stain] BUT it aint no MS65!

True the stars "may" be softly struck but since when does a bad strike get discounted in the grading?

As for the price, absurd as it is for several of the other MS65's up for bid. These alleged Pop tops are not a not a good value at 3-4x what the going rate was less than a year ago. I would grade this one a MS64 , RB is fair.

BTW, my [our] fire engine red Braided Hair Cent [see attachment belwo] is a true 65 RD and a Pop top and I am selling it for $4,500 if anyone is seriously interested PM me. I love this coin but at $4.5 k I don't love it as much and a new home is in order.

CLASSICS

just my 2 cents worth...stupid money for beautiful original copper...really? i would rather have something with a little history behind it than what i see some of this new stuff selling for. and by the way some of us still collect what we like and are not looking to turn a fast buck. whats hot, whats not. buy low sell high.....ebay, yahoo, shop at home, the coin vault, this auction, that auction, gold is going up...gold is going down, the dow is up... the dow is down..... the tone is real.... the tone isnt real.... after a while it all sounds like some still pratice the greater fool theory...you know...i will find a bigger fool than iam to unload this stuff... or a crap game in vegas....does anyone just enjoy what they have? makes me wonder.......

Keyrock

I would pass on the coin due to the color on the neck and the carbon spot on the headband. Depending on the Newcomb variety it may be a bargin. I don't think registry hype there a just a few sets in there, including me. Maybe an awakening to this series due to the registry, who knows. For those of you who are not members of EAC they had a interesting article on slab vs EAC grade:

PCGS grade EAC
65-------- 65(1), 64(4), 63(8), 62 (3), 60 (1)
64-------- 65(1), 64(5), 63(16), 62(8), 60(15), 58(3)
63-------- 63(5), 62(10), 60(19), 58(7), 55(5)
62-------- 60(2), 58(1), 55(3), 50(2)
60-------- 58(1), 55(1)
58-------- 45(2)
55-------- 40(1)
53-------- 40(1)
40-------- 30(1)

The same trend occurs for ANACS graded coppers and NGC was found to be "consistenty lower than the other two services". The best advice was "buy the coin, not the holder".....

Rich

Edited for formatting

ANACONDA

EAC grading......reminds me of the folks from Pennsylvania who use horses as transportation instead of cars.

"yeah....we may be just about alone in this here gig but by golly, we think feedin' horses and cleanin' up their crap and havin' the
winter wind freeze yer eyelids open beats some new fangled metal contraption with rubber hooves any day of the week."

adrian
EAC member #2970

CLASSICS

<< <i>EAC grading......reminds me of the folks from Pennsylvania who use horses as transportation instead of cars.

"yeah....we may be just about alone in this here gig but by golly, we think feedin' horses and cleanin' up their crap and havin' the
winter wind freeze yer eyelids open beats some new fangled metal contraption with rubber hooves any day of the week."

adrian
EAC member #2970 >>

..............i live in pa. as a matter of fact there are about 100 of those folks who live all around me...everyday they pass my house with thier horses and wagons. always a friendly hello and a wave of the hand....... and yes you dont have to worry about getting shot or muged by them when you see them go by, it reminds me of how life use to be, before we all became intwined with are me first thinking. i also see texas leads the nation in crime, dope, and murder.....hummmmmm think ill get me a horse and wagon

Elcontador

THAT's a 65 RD? Where's a barf bag?

That purple toning is usually death to a large cent being sent to PCGS. Plus, that toning on the neck makes an ugly coin even uglier. I have a 65 BN Matron Head Cent with more RD than that one.

Only a babaca would pay strong money for that coin.

I'll disagree with the other poster re Large Cents being the 'darling' of the market. Type in 5 has been soft for at least 2 years, and more and more of it seems to be coming onto the market (look at the NGC material in the current Kingswood auction).

Part of the problem is that many of these coins which I have seen to me don't have much eye appeal. You're also seeing more RB coins in RD holders, and smart people just don't think these coins are worth RD money.

The 'darling' of the market for the last three years have been Bust $s in MS 50 and above.

Flat stars on a Large Cent do not affect the coin's grade.

Desert Lizard, from what I can see, your coin is nice and struck better than most late date Braided Hair Large Cents. You're asking strong $ for your coin, and while I hope you get it, in this market, I don't think you will.

DesertLizard

Desert Lizard, from what I can see, your coin is nice and struck better than most late date Braided Hair Large Cents. You're asking strong $ for your coin, and while I hope you get it, in this market, I don't think you will.

Elcantador, who knows if I will or not, give it 6-9 months as the registry thing heats up more. As I mentioned I love the coin below $4.5k, above that she can become someone else's property. The more I collect the more I find I have other areas of interest. In general I hate trends, fads , whatever. The registry thing [which I participate in] is wearing thin on me and I have "discovered" NGC and no longer feel compelled to only buy PCGS. As a result, out go the pop tops and in come in the true rare unappreciated pieces. I now buy what looks nice versus what I "need". I also buy to sell if the price is right. I have no plans to hoard and have a major sale named after me. The ego is very small and somewhat shy! Haha!

becker

And just remember where you got 'em when you don't want 'em any more!

As dealers, it's necessary to participate at current levels, whatever they may be. At least in my case, long term investment means holding something over the weekend.
Best,
Tom

Conder101

Just for a point of information, the 1831 is NOT a rare variety. It is either a N-6 (R-1), N-7 (R-1), or N-8 (R-3). Can't tell which without seeing the reverse. I don't know the condition census for the N-7 or 7 but for N-8 there are 15 MS pieces, only three above MS-60. That is with EAC grading though. The MS-62 piece sold for 4,400 in the Robbie Brown sale back in 1986.

ANACONDA

With regard to the title "Large Cents bringing "stupid" money?"....

There isn't a series around where no one pays too much for something.

Said another way, everyone, on occasion, no matter what they collect, pays too much for a coin.

In fact, the president of a very large coin company told me not long ago that they lose money on
15% of the coins they buy and they break even on another 25%.

adrian

Bulldog

Anaconda,

That means that they make money on 60 %, or break even and or make money on 85%. Wish I could do that.

Thanks for the calendar.

Bulldog

Elcontador

Desert Lizard,

IMO, there are many attractive coins residing in NGC holders which are good values. However,
you won't find many of them in copper or nickel.