Early dollar website
cardinal
Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
Happy New Year to All,
For those of you who like the early bust type coins, I would like to invite you to a new website -- www.earlydollars.org
I have been a fan of early dollars for many years, and for nearly the last decade, I've been building my set -- Cardinal Collection of Early Dollars
Personally, I find these early coins fascinating. Essentially, every coin was made by hand, using dies that were made by hand, so it's almost like each one is its own work of art. The primary difficulty in collecting early dollars is the scarcity of the coins themselves. To date, PCGS has graded 7,956 early dollars in all grades combined (including 224 in all mint state grades). This compares with such figures as 10,405 PCGS-graded 1881S Morgan dollars in MS-66 or higher and 17,210 Full Bell Line Franklins graded MS-65 or higher. Even slabbed Sacagawea dollars are more plentiful -- 10,067 graded by PCGS to date! I think everyone deserves the opportunity to see these early mint products, and that is why I have opened my set to public view and included lots of images, and why I've put my set on public display on many occasions.
There is also a scarcity of available information on early dollars. The book by Q. David Bowers (in my opinion, the MOST useful reference on early dollars ever published) is long out of print, and the other books that are available are not very user friendly. So, I set about to make some user friendly information readily available, including a new book and a brief pocket guide (limited printing so far) and now the website. The website -- free to all who care to visit it -- contains all of the information and images included in my 173-page book. Phase I of the website is already complete and includes all the information needed to make easy and accurate identifications of the major varieties of early dollars included in the Red Book. Phase II will include detailed information to allow for easy attribution of ALL of the currently-recognized die varieties of early dollars, and will feature an interactive HTML program to guide someone through the attribution. Phase III will then add a tentative condition census for each die variety, including images of each coin in the condition census whenever available.
I invite you all to visit and give me your comments. I must admit I am far from being a web guru or computer expert, so suggestions will be accepted with appreciation. Also, if you happen to have information on condition census specimens of early dollars, including images, and you would like to share them, please let me know so that we can include them on the site!
Happy Collecting!
Cardinal
For those of you who like the early bust type coins, I would like to invite you to a new website -- www.earlydollars.org
I have been a fan of early dollars for many years, and for nearly the last decade, I've been building my set -- Cardinal Collection of Early Dollars
Personally, I find these early coins fascinating. Essentially, every coin was made by hand, using dies that were made by hand, so it's almost like each one is its own work of art. The primary difficulty in collecting early dollars is the scarcity of the coins themselves. To date, PCGS has graded 7,956 early dollars in all grades combined (including 224 in all mint state grades). This compares with such figures as 10,405 PCGS-graded 1881S Morgan dollars in MS-66 or higher and 17,210 Full Bell Line Franklins graded MS-65 or higher. Even slabbed Sacagawea dollars are more plentiful -- 10,067 graded by PCGS to date! I think everyone deserves the opportunity to see these early mint products, and that is why I have opened my set to public view and included lots of images, and why I've put my set on public display on many occasions.
There is also a scarcity of available information on early dollars. The book by Q. David Bowers (in my opinion, the MOST useful reference on early dollars ever published) is long out of print, and the other books that are available are not very user friendly. So, I set about to make some user friendly information readily available, including a new book and a brief pocket guide (limited printing so far) and now the website. The website -- free to all who care to visit it -- contains all of the information and images included in my 173-page book. Phase I of the website is already complete and includes all the information needed to make easy and accurate identifications of the major varieties of early dollars included in the Red Book. Phase II will include detailed information to allow for easy attribution of ALL of the currently-recognized die varieties of early dollars, and will feature an interactive HTML program to guide someone through the attribution. Phase III will then add a tentative condition census for each die variety, including images of each coin in the condition census whenever available.
I invite you all to visit and give me your comments. I must admit I am far from being a web guru or computer expert, so suggestions will be accepted with appreciation. Also, if you happen to have information on condition census specimens of early dollars, including images, and you would like to share them, please let me know so that we can include them on the site!
Happy Collecting!
Cardinal
0
Comments
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Congrats on a truly amazing collection!
Thank you for your kind words! I hope the site will succeed in being useful to those who collect (or might like to start collecting) early dollars.
-- Cardinal
I'm glad you got an opportunity to see the set! I'm planning on some new displays in 2003 so more people can see them as well.
Happy New Year,
--Cardinal
Wow! Now that's a true compliment to be added to one's favorities list!!
Thanks,
Cardinal
Thanks for the link.
I share your passion for early dollars although on a limited budget I do more reading than actual collecting. They also embody so much of early U.S. history, a history I find quite fascinating. They're beautiful coins (you've got to be a toned coin lover to appreciate them
and Bust Dollars:
Super information and very user friendly.
Are the links, also your sponsors? There are a few unsavory ones listed you may wish to purge or make the site totally commercial free if you are a nonprofit.
Glad to meet a fellow enthusiast. I agree that there's a great sense of history with these coins. I think we've all heard the story of George Washington throwing a dollar across the Potomac. Well, if it actually happened, it would have been one of these!
DesertLizard,
The site has no sponsors whatsoever. I have included links that collectors might find useful in obtaining further information about early dollars or in locating sources to acquire some, but I did not intend their inclusion to represent an endorsement. Perhaps if you could alert me to those which you consider unsavory, I could get them removed from the site to protect the innocent.
Thanks,
Cardinal
Regards,
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
....and 17,210 Full Bell Line Franklins graded MS-65 or higher
Ya See, Lucy?
I just finish browsing through your Registry Set Photos. Wow! I'm off to the dentist to get my jaw fixed
P.S. I like the website; straight forward, concise information, great pictures, easy to browse (bells and whistle don't necessarily make for a user friendly site).
Thank you for your input. I'll have the "Sources" Section relabeled to make it clear that those are coin dealers and auction houses.
BTW, Dollarmike saw the proto-type site last week before it went live.
--Cardinal
Thanks for putting this extremely informative and well-thought out Web site together. I bookmarked it!
Also I could look for days at your registry set collection. Simply a monumental achievement!
"The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD GOD Almighty."
Just curious -- did you use Homestead to build the site?
I agree what you say about the hand manufacture of these and the hand cut dies etc.
It has been said that no two coins that were produced back then were ever struck exactly the same and each one is different in some way.
The screw press they used to strike these coins was not designed to handle such a large coin yet they did get the job done.
I hope to post an image soon of my B-1 1801 dollar with broken foot.
One thing I think would be very useful, and a nice addition to your site, would be a section on grading early dollars along with detailed pictures coins in each grade. I know that it would probably be a lot of work, but it would be extremely useful.
What? No 1804 in your collection? You're lagging!
A section on the grading of early dollars is under progress -- to be added later this year -- so stay tuned.
Regarding the 1804 dollar, I agree with the PCGS Registry categorization: the 1804 dollar is NOT a part of the true early dollar series, so I have never actually gone after one. To me, the 1794 dollar is much more exciting and much more historical.
Many thanks to you and to all of the Board Members for their nice comments about the website and the collection!
--Cardinal
Heraldic Eagle Reverse Dollar in mint state.
09/07/2006
Great website. Surpassed only by the coins in the Cardinal collection. Thanks for sharing!
Is the collection going to be shown in or around Ohio in 2003?
I am not trying to take away your thunder, but I just finished posting a 4-part primer on collecting ED's. The threads are across the street in the U.S. Coin Forum. If you have the time, I would be pleased with your participation there as well.
That we did this on the same day is by pure coincidence. And, what I did across the street pales in comparison to your web site.
Regards,
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
The 1794 dollar in the 1945 Boyd sale (World's Greatest Collection, lot #1) is the same coin that later reappeared in the 1995 Numisma Sale. It is now one of the two PCGS MS66 examples. Are you sure you have your pedigree info right?
In furthering my own interests in early dollars, I have made a special effort to trace the mint state specimens of the 1794 dollar. The Lelan Rogers 1794 dollar auctioned by Stacks as part of the Numisma '95 auction indeed now resides in one of the two PCGS MS-66 holders. (The other PCGS MS-66 specimen is the Lord St. Oswald-Ostheimer-Congressman Jimmy Hayes specimen.) In that auction catalog, Stacks did list the F.C.C. Boyd Collection as part of the pedigree in the footnote; however, that information is in conflict with the published research of Q. David Bowers.
The late numismatic author Jack Collins did exhaustive research of the pedigrees of 1794 dollars, with the objective of identifying precisely the number of unique specimens still in existence, and tracing each and every one through ALL of their various appearances at auction and private sales. The manuscript from all of that research has not yet been published, but a number of noted numismatists do have a copy -- including Q. David Bowers. Mr. Bowers had a copy of this manuscript available for his use during the EXTENSIVE preparation of his encyclopedia on Silver Dollars (which includes nearly 500 pages of data related to the early dollars of 1794 through 1803). My 1794 dollar is listed by Bowers as his "Notable Specimen" number 4 as follows:
"Boyd Specimen. Lustrous, brilliant surfaces with detailed centers, clash marks in the fields, and the usual light striking at the left side of the obverse and corresponding part of the reverse. Some carbon marks at stars 3 and 6 serve to identify this coin. B. Max Mel, unknown date, probably the 1930s. F.C.C. Boyd Collection. "Worlds Greatest Collection" sale, Numismatic Gallery, 1945, Lot 1. Unknown intermediary. Stack's (Fixed Price List No. 47, 1950). B.M. Eubanks. Sold at auction by Quality Sales (Kreisberg-Cohen) on September 10-12, 1973, Lot 464. The Somerset Collection (Bowers and Merena, 1992), Lot 1300."
Based on the matching of photographs, there is zero doubt that my specimen is the one cataloged and photographed by Bowers and Merena as part of the Somerset Collection.
Since Bowers actually performed extensive research in the publication of his encyclopedia, and since he had Jack Collins' exhaustive manuscript at his disposal, I would accept his opinion over a brief catalog footnote by Stacks. So, based on the researched opinion of Q. David Bowers, I have concluded that my coin must trace back to the F.C.C. Boyd Collection. If that should actually prove to be incorrect, I would very much like to know. I would appreciate any data that you might have to verify the pedigrees more conclusively.
-- Cardinal
No worries about thunder -- I'm just glad we're creating some rain! I think early dollars are truly fascinating, and while they have definitely increased in popularity in recent years, there is still a great scarcity of available information about them. I greatly anticipate the publication of the revised edition of Bowers' book; however, I also understand the great demands on his time and how an author generally finds writing new books to be far more interesting (read "higher priority") than revising past work. (I know...I spent my college years as a professor's assistant re-writing his old books for new editions, while he started new projects.)
So, I think it's great that we are both providing useful information for collectors. I've read your Primer across the street, and I think it will be very helpful to those interested in the early material. Kudos to you! I'll see about getting registered over there so that I can join in too.
--Cardinal
The plates in both the 1945 and 1995 auction catalogs confirm that the Rogers coin is the Boyd/ WGC example. The diagnostic planchet line between the 4 and the star as well as the sharp strike description verify that they are the same coin. Besides, Lelan Rogers was a most knowledgeable coin collector and I am sure he had his pedigrees straight. I agree with you that the mistaken information started with the Somserset sale. QDB isn't wrong often but it does happen sometimes.
Great web site! You are doing the numismatic community a tremndous service by sharing your collection.
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Do you actually have a copy of the 1945 WGC catalog with a plate of the 1794 dollar? I have looked to find one for quite some time. I've even made requests from the ANA Library, and it appears that they do not have a copy of the catalog that included the Boyd dollars.
If you do have the catalog, could you post the photo of the 1794 dollar? I would certainly like to see it so that I can have valid basis for correcting my research notes (and over-ruling Bowers' conclusions).
EVP,
Accordingly to the section of Bowers' book on "Historical Prices" (which gives the auction descriptions and prices realized for all of the early dollar lots of quite a number of well-known auctions), the WGC Sale included only one 1794 dollar, simply described at that time as "Unc." However, perhaps Boyd did have another "Unc" 1794 dollar which he upgraded prior to the auction, such that BOTH coins were legitimately part of his collection at one time or another.
Do any of the members here have access to a copy of Jack Collins' manuscript? In re-reading sections of Bowers' book, I see that he specifically acknowledged Jack Collins for providing information for the 1794 dollar section of the book, and that Jack Collins had done the proofreading. Is there something about the Boyd 1794 dollar(s?) that escaped both Collins and Bowers? Inquiring numismatic minds (at least this one) want to know!
Regards,
Cardinal
This issue seems like the basis for a brief article to the JRJ... What do you think? Maybe the JRCS membership can help out? Have you tried contacting Jim Matthews or WDP? (I have Jim's email address, if you want me to forward this thread to him.)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I think that's sounds like a good idea! I've already put together a lot of information of the pedigrees of mint state 1794s (toward the goal of ultimately listing condition census info on the website), but it would be great to get input from Jim and WDP. They both have LOTS more experience with these than I. So, feel free to email the thread to them if you would like.
Thanks,
Cardinal
Sorry but I do not have a scanner. In order for you to determine the pedigree of your great coin you are going to have to check all of the auction references for uncirculated 1794 dollars. It is not as daunting as it seems. Or, as you mentioned, try to get a copy of Collins' manuscript. It is actually more than a manuscript since it includes photos. Years ago I tried and was unable to pry one loose from anybody.
As luck would have it, George Kolbe had a leatherette bound copy of the 5-part Boyd Sale, and that is now on its way to me. So, I'll soon get to see for myself. I already have most of the auction catalogs with mint state 1794 dollars, but this one was missing. I'll keep on the lookout for others, and I'll post what more I find out about my coin's pedigree.
In the meantime, I'm also going to see about getting a copy of the Collins' work. That is something I really think deserves to be published for everyone's benefit.
--Cardinal
Collecting Dollars
BTW, if your spittle boy pulls an arm muscle, I'm available. (and I have references)
The Amon Carter 1794 dollar is certainly one of the most amazing specimens to come out of the early mint, but my most recent information is that is still in its PCGS MS-65 holder. I've not seen it in person, but from the photos I have seen, I think it would hold its own with the Lelan Rogers coin any day.
--Cardinal
I think the Amon Carter 1794 Dollar currently resides in an NGC MS65 holder as part of the Knoxville Collection. It crossed services but is still listed in both pop reports. The Hayes 1794 Dollar crossed from NGC MS66 to PCGS MS66 and is also still listed in both reports. I'm sure you both know where that coin is.
Where is the 66?
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
Thanks for your continued input. It seems you have a lot of good info on 1794 dollars! Isn't it amazing how the pop reports can be inflated even on such a great rarity as these?
Blade,
We'll let the owner of the Hayes' dollar chime in if they choose to. Not to name any names, but let's just say it's in the same collection as the Garrett 1795 DB dollar (NGC-Specimen 66), the Childs 1804 (PCGS PR68), AND the Dexter 1804 (NGC PR64).
--Cardinal
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com