Should "Rare Coin Dealers" be required to sell rare coins?

Lakesammman

I'm really tired of seeing "Rare Coin Dealers" selling the same old common stuff. Should there be a ANA standard that defines what a "rare coin" is and require ANA member dealers to abide by the definition?? Or at least once a year actually offer a rare coin in order to qualify to use the phrase "rare coins"?? It could be population or price based - I don't really care how it's defined.

Here are some alternatives:

Bobs Beautiful coins
Lucies Cameos
Fat Freddies Franklins
Sams Same Old Sorry Coins

Does this bother anyone else??

LucyBop

<< <i>Lucies Cameos >>





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KlectorKid

Define rare coin.

Clankeye

What I find rather amusing are the thousands of new coin companies coming to us via eBay, which are nothing more than (sometimes inexperienced) collectors such as myself. You get yourself an eBay handle. Put "Coins" or "Rare Coins" in there, and viola! You're a coin company/dealer. And you get to write all those glowing descriptions of all the great coins that for some reason you don't want to keep even in your collection.

Clankeye's House of Crazy Coins -- selling quality hot-air since Dec. 2002

Lakesammman

KlectorKid:

As mentioned, I don't really care. I think the collector community should decide, not me. I'm hoping this forum can provide some insight into what people think are rare coins.

For me personally, it's more a timing issue. If a particular coin is for sale in every ad and auction, it's not rare. For instance, a 1856 FE cent is expensive and desirable but not rare - they are offered literally hundreds of times a year. If you see a coin offered once or twice a year, or less, now that's a rare coin! This would be a very difficult definition since condition rarity would come into play, so I think we would have to use a price cut off or the population reports.

Rotts

PLONK

danglen

"Rare Coin"= any coin I don't own

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Tim - The phrase Rare Coins is an oxymoron


Rare Coins mean that a penny sells for more than a penny
and a dime sells for more than a dime

An 1804 dollar USE to be a rare coin...........but...............

Lakesammman

Clankeye - I like it - quality hot air.....there's potential there, but more so if you call it "rare"

wingedliberty

Rare is a highly subjective term. If I am the seller, I would not use the term. Let the coin stand
on its on merit. The coin will speak for itself.


Brian.

RKKay

Maybe the dealers who sell common coins can be called common coin dealers, those who sell scarce coins be scarce coin dealers and so on. A bit tongue in cheek, but it does bother me to check out websites of "rare coin dealers" and find the crap they sell.

mr1931S

Lakesammmon,i can appreciate what you're saying...an old-time Denver dealer once remarked to me that "a truly rare coin is one you seldom,sometimes never in your lifetime, will see offered."...

What is not rare? Morgan dollars are not rare even in "high grade"...

Is the key 1893-S Morgan dollar rare? Yes it is,in "high grade"...Is the 1893-S dollar commonly available for purchase to the collector? Yes it is...in lower grades...

The 1893-S dollar is truly rare in "high grade"...the 1893-S dollar in lower grades is "relatively common" compared to all 1893-S dollars in existence,"relatively scare" compared to all 1893 dollars in existence,"relatively rare" compared to all Morgan dollars...

What is "high grade"?...i recently had an experience with an ebay seller who considers fine and very fine coins "high grade" and describes all his fine and very fine individual coins as such...i think he is attempting to suggest to buyers that his fine and very fine coins are "rare"...

yeah,"high grade" compared to good and very good or "relatively high grade," i suppose...

the point is,regardless of how tiresome it is for the collector to be seeing so many self-described rare coin dealers these days,it is up to the collector to figure out what is rare and what is not...

cladking

There is usually a lot of correlation between rarity and price within a series
but this breaks down across different series; a scarce two cent piece does not com-
mand the price of an equally scarce Morgan. If condition rarities are allowed then
someone will claim he has the only AG-3 1964-D cent or the only well struck mark-
free AU+ 1966 quarter.

It can also be argued that coins are as individual as finger prints so they are all rare.

Perhaps when a dealer names his establishment rare coins he is referring more to
his aspirations than his inventory. Perhaps those selling coins too cheap to qualify
for use of the name "rare" might be issued a "poetic license".

Lakesammman

Appreciate the perspectives.....as unique as fingerprints......never thought of it that way.

Trime

Didn't Dave Bower's address this issue with his rarity scale. it could be applied to this concern of your thread.
There could be a rarity dealer rating on the PCGS forum each quarter. Maybe what you would see listed is : Bob's Coins: Rare Coin Dealer -Coins sold last year: 19671<R1;189 R2; 31 R3; 6 R3; 0 R4; 1 R5; 0 R6; 0 R7).
Overall Dealer Rarity Rating 1.37 *

Didn't actually do the math

Lakesammman

Where is that Bowers analysis?? Would like to read it.

coinguy1

Stewart, you said "Rare Coins mean that a penny sells for more than a penny
and a dime sells for more than a dime."

I think you might be confusing rare coins with coins that are worth more than face value.

I know that you know more than that about rare coins.

relayer

My understand is that a rare] coin means that less than 75 exist.

Is this a correct definition?

Trime

Laksammman,

I was referring in my intended tongue in cheek post on a Dealers Rarity Rating( see above) to the following rare coin scale which I had believed was attributable to Dave Bowers but minimal effort indicated it is adapted by Sheldon (1949,1958) from Noel Humphreys (circa 1853). This was designed for large cents and Breen in his Encyclopedia points out that it may not apply to other series where much larger populations of other dates in the series exist.

Unique -1 coin minted
R8- 2-3 coins minted
R7(high)-4-6 coins known
R7low-7-12 coins
R6 (high)- 13-20 coins known
R6(low)-21-30 coins
R5-31-75 coins
R4-76-200 coins
R3-201-500 coins
R2-501-1250 coins
R1-1250+coins

Thanks for making me get the author straight.

Bear

Clank - I would buy you hot air any time. Bear

michael

for me there in general are no rare coins

in fact in my opinion 98% of the coins sold thruogh private dealrs in private transactions and all the US coins sold at auctions in the last 3 years would not be considered rare to me maybe scarce/uncommon and somewhat available but not rare!!

soooooooooooooooo if rare coin dealers were only allowed to sell truly rare coins there would be no coin market at all and most all dealers would be out of business! as there would be nothing most of the time to sell

sincerely michael

michael

usually the most money made in coins is to sell common coins that are reaLLY CRAPPY coins with lots of promotion gimics hype whatever you call it especially hype playing on peoples passions!! that is how you make money and sustain a market in coins in my opinion

if any dealer sold rare coins he would not make any money and most probably would be rarer than truly rare coins.........lol

as i think as a businessman usually it is the case that you have to sell something you can make a good markup on many times over and over to stay in business and feed yourself!

but you need to create demand!!!!! that is the key nothing else matters!!!

most people would not know a good coin if it jumped up and bit them in the ass
that is why there are many in the coin market who sell common "overpriced" crap and use clever marketing to make a market and so called "value and demand" with packaging or whatever

usually you have to tell people what is good
and what to buy
and what to like! then they buy it !!!!
and are happy!!

and there is no law against that i personally would not do it but that is me

a fool and his money are soon parted

sincerely michael

Trime

Re: Rare coin and rare coin dealers.

Michael, Michael, Michael,

Calm down.
The world is not perfect.
Definitions are not created by God.
Most of everything is common. Rare is uncommon. We can argue how uncommon or scarce but what is the point. Lets define the quantity that exist in a defined quality.
You are correct, very few dealers have the luxury of selling only unique ( 1 and only 1 example) coins.
You have done a good job emphasizing the virtues of selectivity and the merits of quality.
However, many common coins of sub-Michael standards are sold daily. Hopefully ( but not preditably) some of them give pleasure to the buyer and sometimes the price is commensurate with the quality.
Regarding marketing: I had a conversation the other day with a very successful business man who explained that in his life, success is 20% talent and 80% marketing. I have no reason to believe his experience is aberant. Again we can disagree with the percentages but the marketing department rules the enterprise.
Have a Happy New Year