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Is this 1794 Large Cent real?

Comments

  • DesertLizardDesertLizard Posts: 702 ✭
    I say cleaned and tooled.
  • banknote1banknote1 Posts: 206
    I think the coin is genuine. It does make you wonder though, why isn't this coin slabbed???
    Banned for Life from The Evil Empire™!
    Looking for Nationals, Large VF to AU type, 1928 Gold, and WWII Emergency notes. Also a few nice Buffalo Nickels and Morgan Dollars.
    Monty...
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    DesertLizard,

    I was pretty sure it's been cleaned. What are the indications that it's been tooled?

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's real. It's one of the 1794 head of '95 varieties. I'm not near my library right now so I can't give you a variety number.

    I'd say it's been cleaned, but I'm on an odd monitor and can't get true colors. I don't see any tooling.

    It's no bargain. The guy wants "all the money" and then some unless it's a pretty scarce variety.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,163 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think EF 45 is a bit generous. EAC guys like all hair to show hence Extra Fine.

    Tbig
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    EAC grade = F-VF-15 or 20

    "Standard Grade" = VF-25 or 30

    LESS cleaning if it is cleaned.

    EAC # 776
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ToneloverTonelover Posts: 1,554 ✭
    The seller says it's "100% original". Got to love it.
  • DesertLizardDesertLizard Posts: 702 ✭
    Russ,

    I have an au50 of this coin and the wear patterns on this one look odd. Face/neck show more wear than hair, hence my conjecture of tooling.

    As someone else asked, why not slabbed?!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That spot in the hair holds its detail longer than any other part of the coin. It's the usual wear pattern. If you have ever seen one of these in Mint or close to it you would see how much stronger the hair down the neck is that the rest of the design.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>As someone else asked, why not slabbed?! >>



    He has quite a few listed that aren't slabbed, including what looks like a nice Two Cent piece. Since I'm still very new to Two Cent pieces, and have never done business with this seller, I figured I'd better root around his other auctions to try and get a feel for his legitimacy. Thus, the reason for this post.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not that this is an example of this, but the VAST majority of really great early copper coins are NOT slabbed. Members of the Early American Coppers club (EAC) own the best copper coins, and many of them HATE slabs and love to make fun of the grading. Sadly these EAC members are often right. A lot of slabbed copper IS overgraded, and I'm not applying EAC standards.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,536 ✭
    Bill Jones is right on all counts, 1794 head of 95 and it's an S-72 one of the most common of the 1794's. Why isn't it slabbed? Most better early copper is not slabbed because it's in the hands of collectors who don't want it slabbed. I agree with his opinions on the grade as well.
  • greghansengreghansen Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭
    cleaned, cleaned and re-cleaned one more time just to make sure!

    Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum

  • BASEagleBASEagle Posts: 383
    Link to grading guide for 1794 cent

    Here is a link to a grading guide for the 1794 cent. For the Very Fine 25 grade it says "the major mass of hair is now clearly separated into two sections". The problem here is that the two hair sections on the example coin are entirely different from the two sections on the auction coin. Think this indicates tooling?

    Mike

  • DesertLizardDesertLizard Posts: 702 ✭
    I went back and took a second look at the coin and the seller's other offerings.

    I still say if it aint slabbed what's wrong with it! Many of his other auctions are in 4 rate holders, PCI, SEGS, etc. Since many, if not all of his coins are obviously cleaned I suspect this cent looks worse in person, otherwise it would sit in a 4th rate holder. Out of the holder he can inflate the grade and sell to an unknowing buyer if the coin has problems.

    When in doubt, walk away.

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