novice inquiry

stooges

Why would a seller sell a 1909-s vdb charachterized as "full red, brilliant uncirculated" without professional grading (ebay item # 3300792853) and with a "no return" policy? It would seem that the seller could ensure a significantly higher bid amount and avoid the issue of "returns" if the coin were graded. I note that this seller has perfect feedback selling vintage coins and I am not suggesting suspicious motives in any way. In fact, I assume his may be a common practice. Just curious.
Thanks.

mbbiker

link

coinguy1

stooges,

You have raised an excellent question.

I do not know the seller and have not seen the coin in question, so my comments are general ones and do not necessarily apply in this particular instance. In the vast majority of cases when a coin like this is offered uncertified, it means that it is not as good as advertised. As you noted, a seller would almost always do better having it certified if it were truly as described.

Here are some possible reasons why a coin such as this has not been certified:

1) it is not genuine
2) it has been cleaned, altered or has artificial color
3) it will not receive the "RD" ("red") color designation from a major grading service
4) the seller is not aware of the benefits of certification
5) it is not of the quality stated or that one would gather, merely from viewing images

The coin might be perfectly fine, but I am always somewhat leery when I see valuable pieces such as this offered uncertified, especially so when/if there is no return privilege. Caution is advised.

kranky

Interestingly, I noticed that in some of his previous coin auctions he offered a return policy, but not on this one.

Russ

<< <i>I note that this seller has perfect feedback selling vintage coins >>



This does not automatically mean that the sale is legitimate. The best cons always setup the mark. I'm not implying that is the case here, only that it is easy enough to build a handful of feedback prior to the big score. This seller has only been around since August. To my way of thinking, this is not nearly enough of a track record to consider laying down heavy cash on this coin.

Russ, NCNE

ms71

There's ALWAYS a reason for a "no return" policy. On inexpensive material, it may just be the not-worth-the-bother factor. On an expensive item, I see it as a very clear sign that the seller probably feels that the buyer is not going to get what he expected. If you describe an item fairly (and FULLY), then you have little to fear in the way of returns. Anybody who buys expensive coins based on a computer image under a no return policy is looking to acquire someone else's problem coins.

DHeath

Stooges,

All your instincts are correct, you'll do well. Russ made a great point, and I'd like to add, all the best cons appeal to our greed. If the coin would be worth 3x it's bid in a holder, and all you have to do is buy it and submit it, you could triple your money, right? Who says greed isn't a powerful sales tool.

airplanenut

<< <i>

<< <i>I note that this seller has perfect feedback selling vintage coins >>

Well, if they were coins like this, most very experienced buyers would pass and wait for something in a slab... if someone new jumped at the coins, they might not understand for months or years that they were ripped off, thus they leave positive feedback as unknowledgeable buyers...

Jeremy

PS- WELCOME!

OnlyBuffalos

The coin appears to have problems. Check out the reverse bottom and the edge after UNUM. I doubt you would be happy with this coin.

relayer

On the Discovery Channels program "Secrets of the Mint" they talked about how the 1909-S VDB is one of the most conterfiet coins out there. It's easy to take a 1909 VDB and put an "S" on it.

See watching TV makes you smart!

dpoole

I'd say that the chances of this being a good deal are almost nil. Mark was being very fair and even-handed, but I've yet to hear of someone getting a key-date raw coin off of Ebay, and having it be anything close to as it this is described ("considered it to be brilliant uncirculated full red.").

My recommendation is that you run, don't walk, away from this one.

relayer

I don't think you have to go very far down Mark's list before running away for this one

Russ

This auction of his is even scarier. Payment by Western Union ONLY. Wire transfer is the numero uno method used by cons.

EDIT: Just noticed that's for overseas buyers. For US buyers, it's:



<< <i>Payment overnighted FEDEX-UPS-EXPRESS MAIL ONLY >>



This seller has red flags all over his auctions.

Russ, NCNE

relayer

This was one of my favorite auctions.

I emailed the seller (0) asking if I could get PayPal to eat the transaction (or words to that effect) and got the reply below.

The buyer was a (0) back then and I emailed him after telling him he wasn't going to get his coin.

$3.00 Gold Princess


Hello,

I am shipping this coin from Romania.this is my father`s colection and still in the original plastic original box.sorry,but paypal is not available here in Romania,I will declair the shipping as a GIFT in order to dont have any problem and taxes on the border.i will also pay the shipping cost for UPS next day air.

the fast payment is you can go to your bank and wire payment directly to my bank account,this is safe way for you to know that money will be there and for me to have paid.if you are interested in my buy it now option,please let me know and we can close this deal before auction end.coz i will be able to close auction early and purchse it with you.

Many thanks

the but it now price is $700

BillJones

I'd stay away from this like the plague. The picture is virtually useless because it has been shot at an angle and you can barely see the all important mint mark, let alone see the small die chip that is ALWAYS inside the bottom of the upper curl of the “S”. The 1909-S-VDB has been counterfeited so much that there are probably more in existence NOW than there were at the end of 1909. I would not even DREAM of selling one of these raw. I’d buy one raw because I think of capable of spotting the bad ones, but I would have to get it certified before I’d sell it.