CoinWorld and 1792 disme taken to task

IrishMike

In this weeks CoinWorld (12/30) is one of the more interesting Letters to the Editor I have read, written by Alan Weinberg. The letter is about the 1792 disme they mentioned was being auctioned off by Benchmark Ventures, a company which came up in an earlier thread. The letter is entitled puffery, not news. I'll condense the points, but everyone should read it:

An investor with no sense and too many disposable dollars will feel the coin is worth that ($1.2 million) since it is published on your front page and "it must be so".

This proof 65 was sold in the March 1981 Garret IV Salef by Bowers and Ruddy as a choice AU and is hardly the finest known.

Most holders of this coin prefer not to slab it.

It sold only a few years ago for $375,000 by a well known and market wise dealer.

It has constantly been on the marker for $600,000.

All of a sudden it sells for less than that and the new owner plans to offer it for $1.2 million.

How does the mere offering of the "slabbed" disme at an outrageous price $1.2 million become front-page news instead of the overly ambitious figment of imagination by the new purchaser?

News is one thing. Numismatic puffery is another.

BillJones

Yes, I agree. The coin has great historical significance, but there are about 300 examples known. Most of them are low grade, but it's not an "impossible rarity." Heck, even I own one, but it's a VF-30.

I think there are somewhere around 20 Mint State 1792 half dismes known. That makes the $1 million + price tag seem a little high. I think that there are two Mint State 1794 silver dollars known. One of them has sold for over million. It seems to me that the asking price on the Coin World piece is too high, especially if it is really an AU.

EVillageProwler

Bill,

I think there's about 5 or 6 true unc 1794 silver dollars extant. Still, that's a paltry number...

EVP

kranky

I saw that letter and Mr. Weinberg makes an excellent point. A coin that sells for $1.2 million is news, not offering one, unless the coin itself is legendary. Perhaps Benchmark Ventures sent a press release to CW about the proposed sale, and CW thought the coin was such a one-of-a-kind rarity it deserved news coverage. Coins like the 1804 dollar and the 1913 Liberty nickel get similar writeups when they are being offered, which makes sense to me. Those coins are so famous, just having one come on the market is newsworthy. In this case, I think CW dropped the ball and turned a press release into a front-page ad.

I bet Jay Parrino is ticked that he never got that kind of publicity by offering similarly-priced coins for sale. And he's an advertiser!

RKKay

The plot thickens: I got a call from someone at Benchmark really pushing the coin. He said he expected the coin to flip 2 or 3 times at FUN alone. He said he expected it to hit $2M easily. I told him that I'd buy it as soon as I came up with the $1.2M. In the same conversation, he tried to sell me a pattern for $33k that has been on the market for a year at $27.5 and is worth maybe $20.

Zerbe

I hope everybody is getting the 'big picture', of Benchmark Ventures.
If there were only one 1882 Proof Morgan dollar in the world, and I needed it to finish my PR Morgan set, I swear that I would not buy it from them. That is my personal opinion of them, as I have done business with them, but never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Zerbe

pqgold

Is it a simple case of telemarketing??

zep

I agree. I do not see any new news here. Your facts are basically correct. That coin has not sold since 1998 but it has changed hands several times, each time with a higher unrealistic price. Probably "on memo" right now. It is an important piece but only worth about 1/4 to 1/3 of their current asking price. IMO there are two 1792 Patterns that could be valued near the one million dollar level: a gem mint state silver cent and an uncirculated red Birch cent.

matteproof

Hi all. Is this a 1792 DISME or a 1792 HALF disme?

matteproof

BigD5

The article says disme. It is a bit bewildering.

IrishMike

The coin in question is a pattern copper disme which was recently certified pf65 brown by NGC. In 1998 is was also certified proof 65 by PCGS and advertised for sale in Coinworld for $575,000. It was offered for sale in May of 2000 in CoinWorld for $700,000. This coin is purported to be one of 12 with reeded edges. I am looking at a picture of the coin and it says disme on the reverse.

Edited to add: It is pictured on page 90 of the 12/16 Coinworld.

Gilbert

Don't forget at one time it was described as an AU coin. I think that was also a major issue Weinberg was trying to point out; not only the price jump but the grade jump also.

Zerbe

When I bought a coin from Benchmark Ventures, the 'salesman', said "I had nothing to lose, as he would buy the coin back". He failed to add that they would deduct 25% from the purchase price, because I did take him up on his offer within one month. In the case of the 1792 proof disme, that would amount to a loss of $300,000. If they don't sell it, the coin will probably be consigned to Heritage, where it will be advertised at it's true value. Zerbe


If any business is done with Benchmark Ventures, MAKE SURE IT IS DONE IN WRITING.