Wellll now....NGC just sent me another box with coins in it.........
MAULUMALL
Posts: 711 ✭
Well I am as pi$$ed as I can be.
4 coins missattributed and labled wrong.
ALL 1964 Proof Kennedy's.
A 56 Franklin Pr. that graded 68 that should have gotten the Star at least.
I sent in 2 1958 Quarters.They are twins.One gets pr66 Cam,the other pr 66.
I also sent in a 1962 it came back Pr 67.No star No cam no nothing.
AND they send them to me FED EXPRESS.30 friggin dollars for the most pi$$ing moment in my coin collecting life.
I can't post across the street but if any one who reads both boards wishes to link it over there,Feel free.
I have a busy day Monday but you can bet your sweet little a$$ I am gonna be on the phone talking to Fla.
4 coins missattributed and labled wrong.
ALL 1964 Proof Kennedy's.
A 56 Franklin Pr. that graded 68 that should have gotten the Star at least.
I sent in 2 1958 Quarters.They are twins.One gets pr66 Cam,the other pr 66.
I also sent in a 1962 it came back Pr 67.No star No cam no nothing.
AND they send them to me FED EXPRESS.30 friggin dollars for the most pi$$ing moment in my coin collecting life.
I can't post across the street but if any one who reads both boards wishes to link it over there,Feel free.
I have a busy day Monday but you can bet your sweet little a$$ I am gonna be on the phone talking to Fla.
0
Comments
A chance (singular vernacular)
It must have been that new grader they hired from Labor Finders.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I see you accidently put NGC in your thread title instead of PCGS.
It must have been that new grader they hired from Labor Finders.
No it's no mistake.It's NGC.
I wanted to express that I am thinking this Rick M. move might not be a good thing for NGC.
All of a sudden NGC gets REAL inconsistant.
I have about 20 coins that are going back.Some of these were going to be Xmass presents.
I am so pi$$ed.
<< <i>Some of these were going to be Xmass presents. >>
Dont tell me they miss graded the Frankie you were giving me! I'll personally hunt that R. Montgomerey cat down!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
On a serious note, NGC quit using the star designation some time ago, and about 6 mos ago, they seem to have really tightened up on the cam/dcam designation. I think they heard the collectors comments regarding their designations. As for the modern grading, I've actually crossed coins I submitted to NGC as crackouts to PCGS and had a few upgrade, many stay the same, and a few downgrade. Each seems to look for different attributes. I said that wrong. They both look for the same attributes, but they weight them a little differently. As for the 58 quarters, could you put up a pic of the two reverses? I'd bet that's where the trouble is. What were the Kennedies, AHs? Did you label them as such on the submission?
BTW - Sorry the invoice was tough, that always makes for a bad day.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
As lucy said they are still giving out the star.The Franklin she posted is mine and I got it back about 3 or 4 weeks ago.I just sent her some scans of the 1956 I just got back.
(Maybe if we all ask real nice she'll post em)
the reverses are STRONG.I'll try to scan and send them to you if you like.
As for the 64 Kennedy's,2 were A/H,2 were Not,They got them backwards.And to be quite honest I am beginning to wonder what kind of Q.C. they have in place.
The 56 is one of the easiest Frankies to find in Cam, it also happens to be my Favorite year! (What might that mean)... This half does appear to be very clean and has cam on the obverse... The fields seem extremely clean! Why not a star?
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Good luck with your conversation with NGC. My feeling is that they're very good about dealing with customer service issues.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Patrick,
I can certainly understand your emotional response to what happened. If I may suggest... Don't get too worked up yet. Every company makes a mistake once in a while. Their receiving department recently jammed me up on something big time; their responsiveness to my dissatisfaction seemed spot on and sincere.
Let's hope that NGC will work through your issue satisfactorily...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Thank you for crossing the post across the street.
For some reason I can not post Questions or answer posts over there.
I would never want to post as anonymous.
Be sure to add my Email address if anyone wishes to contact me from there.
maulumall@aol.com
My name is Patrick.
Thanks again EVP.
We want the BIg 2 to be tough but not on our coins. We don't want them to be like ACG or PCI but we want loose grading.
Well, imagine all coins were graded liberally. Where would that leave the value of the coin if suddenly every coin was a CAM or 68*? I am somewhat amazed at how some can call or complain and just like that the grade is revised. That's when the grading services of NGC and PCGS lose all credibility with me.
DL,
I agree with you that we may be biased wrt our own coins. However, mis-attributions and mi-labellings are legit complaints...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
In my opinion people who grade coins for a living are a whole lot less likely to make a mistake than the person who submitted the coin. Nobody's perfect - so the even the graders do make mistakes. But when a submitter is unhappy with the assigned grade - whether he thinks it too low or too high - I would first question the opinion of the submitter. There is a whole lot more to being accurate and consistent when it comes to grading to coins than most people realize.
It is pretty much human nature - that most folks think they know more about a given subject than they really do. So it is only natural for them to question the opinion of others when it is regarding a subject they think themselves to be knowledgeable about. But are they really ?
When you deal with a professional in any trade - and he or she gives you their opinion - do you always question it ? Usually not - unless you think you know something about the subject yourself. But when you do question it - how often are you right ? I'd wager not very often. The same is true with coin grading.
I am referring to the vast majority of coin collectors - myself included. I've been following this pursuit now for over 40 years - and there is still a lot more that I don't know than there is that I do know. And as one progresses in coin collecting - you come to learn that.
Too many times people think they know more than they really do - especially regarding coin grading. And the first person that says - NOT ME - is the first person that needs to learn more.
Some think that because they have looked at 10 thousand coins - they know how to grade them. Well they don't. While it may be possible that some could learn it that easily - the vast majority can not. Ask the graders that post here - I'll ask em - how many coins have you seen or attempted to grade - in the entire time you have spent being involved with coins ? And I don't mean just as a grader - I mean since you first picked one up and looked at it.
When you hear the answers - then compare it to how many you have seen. Then tell me if you know how to grade better than the guys doing it for a living.
Obverse
Reverse
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Then tell me if you know how to grade better than the guys doing it for a living. >>
Nobody here is saying that they are better then the so-called experts........ It's a consistency issue. In my case, I have some ms62 &63 FBL Frankies that are by far are better then most of my 64's. So the experts tightened up something fierce or they have been inconsistent. The latter is what I believe to be the case.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
The halves
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
well he said alot.So this first,
It is pretty much human nature - that most folks think they know more about a given subject than they really do. So it is only natural for them to question the opinion of others when it is regarding a subject they think themselves to be knowledgeable about. But are they really ?
DHeath has recieved more scans and I hope he will post them,But in the interim let me say that I am the one who paid them to do a job.To the tune of a couple thousand over the last couple months.
I expect you (the person I paid to do the job) to do your best and to deliver at least a satisfactory product.
Too many times people think they know more than they really do - especially regarding coin grading. And the first person that says - NOT ME - is the first person that needs to learn more.
I would never presume to say I am as qualified as they are supposed to be.If I thought I was I would be there doing what they do as I love looking at coins.
This is not in any way a personal thing and I hope you do not take what I say as an attack on you in any way.
I (as well as you I would bet) work very hard for my money.
I can't afford to throw it away.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Look at it this way... those 2 non-AHs got a major upgrade!
John Maben, a senior finalizer at NGC, just responded to your thread. Go take a look...
BTW, I think he is being reasonable in asking that you give them a chance to talk to you before roasting them publicly. If the shoes were reversed, you'd probably want the same consideration from your customers...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
AH coins
Non AH coins
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>before roasting them publicly >>
I don't take it that MAULUMALL roasted them at all. Thanks for sharing with us MAULUMALL, and I always enjoy the scans........
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
BTW - I read John's response, and thought it well done. Whenever there is a customer service issue, I pay more attention to the manner with which it is resolved than the original problem.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
But even what we have today is still in a process of change. The grading companies over the years have changed their standards many times - they have become looser - tighter - and back again many times. And I am not singling out any individual company - this is true for all of them.
In recent months you can read of similar complaints of grading inconsistentcy on any of the coin forums. Almost without exception these complaints tend to be about undergrading coins. But in months past - most of the complaints being voiced about the grading companies were how often they overgraded a coin. So what has happened ? Isn't it obvious - they have tightened up standards.
To me this is a good thing - and one that has been long overdue. I only hope it is the beginning of a change to end changes. All of the grading companies need to achieve consistentcy & accuracy. They all need to follow the same set of established standards and stick to them - forever ! If they ever did that - then the complaints that XYZ undergraded my coins - or that QRST always overgrades everything - will simply go away. And collectors and the hobby in general will be the better for it.
Everything you have said is known to many of us and has been known for some time. It is good input and your last paragraph is very good! I will say though that instead of making a isn't it obvious statement and then saying that they have tightened up, they can and do make legitmate errors and from what I have witnessed both PCGs and NGC has worked with people when this occurs.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
To be fair, I don't think any grading service wants to annoy a customer. What would they have to gain?
Nobody I've talked to yet can dispute that the best customer is a repeat customer.
I think you are taking the right approach. Talk it over with the grading service. This may not result in you getting the coins graded the way you wanted them, but you will certainly learn something from the experience.
Best,
Tom
<< <i>
I expect you (the person I paid to do the job) to do your best and to deliver at least a satisfactory product.
This is not in any way a personal thing and I hope you do not take what I say as an attack on you in any way.
I (as well as you I would bet) work very hard for my money.
I can't afford to throw it away. >>
I in no way consider your response an attack on me - nor do I take it personally. And I hope you do not take my comments personally either - for they are definitely not intended as such. My comments are directed in general terms to the subject at hand - the opinions of a coin submitter as compared to the opinions of a professional coin grader.
As for paying someone to do a job and then expecting them to deliver - absolutely ! I could not agree more. But where the question comes in is - who decides what the definition of satisfactory is ? When you are talking about grading a coin - that can be rather hard to pin down. If satisfactory means they grade the coin to meet your expectations - then I have to disagree. But if satisfactory means they grade the coin in a consistent & accurate manner - then I agree completely.
But to say they ( the graders ) have not done the job you paid them do - because you do not agree with the assigned grades - to me that is not a valid statement. It simply means you have one opinion and they have another.
Of course they make mistakes - they would not be human if they did not. But I think we as collectors/submitters make far more mistakes than they do when it comes to assigning a grade to a given coin. I am not advocating blindly accepting any grade or attribution that any grading company assigns to a coin. I am merely stating that when a submitter has a difference of opinion regarding the grade of a coin - that he/she should first re-examine their opinion while keeping in mind that the people you disagree with - usually know more about it than you do. Then if you still disagree - by all means - talk to them and ask for an explanation.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
He sent me an email and we are communicating now.
EVillageProwler then said "BTW, I think he is being reasonable in asking that you give them a chance to talk to you before roasting them publicly. If the shoes were reversed, you'd probably want the same consideration from your customers..."
You are correct. I was (and am still to a lesser degree now) Ticked off about my coins.
If I offended ANYONE with my rant then I offer my sincerest apology.
I am not a coin dealer. I am a coin collector. It was my intention to try and make a couple more collectors this Christmas by giving coins. I got frustrated and I pi$$ed and moan a bit to my fellow collectors. If you have read my posts I have always put NGC in, what I consider, a very favorable light. I have more coins to submit. How this situation is resolved will weigh heavily.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
You're too easy. I'm still offended.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
you get the first ever MAULUMALL "BITE ME"
<< <i>you get the first ever MAULUMALL "BITE ME" >>
A historic moment! You should be honored Clark!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Naw! Screw 'Em!
Guess I will have to keep a eye out for A.H. coins in NGC slabs
<< <i>In my opinion people who grade coins for a living are a whole lot less likely to make a mistake than the person who submitted the coin. >>
Yeah, just like dealers never get cherry-picked by collectors who specialize in a series.
Russ, NCNE
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