ricardouno-- Your point is well taken, but I don't think the evidence of indentation or even tearing on the back of the paper of cards necessarily means the set is not original. I took the coins out of a 58 mint set to look at (knowing the source and knowing they were original) and as careful as I tried to be (real, real careful) I still ended up causing some tearing in the paper of the cards. Some of that paper is so fragile now, it's almost impossible to look at the reverse of a coin without ripping it, or indenting it. This goes a long way to backing up your point. Certainly an untouched set will not show any of that. But, just because there is evidence the coins have been looked at, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is not an original set. It still may well be. Again, you just won't know unless it is obvious the coins are mismatched. Just my opinion. Still enjoying this thread. In fact I put a link to it in an eBay auction I am currently running.
I agree entirely with your point. I stated in my prior note:::::::::But please note that if minor bubbling is present the set can still be completely original as a numismatist may have plucked a few coins out to inspect and then carefully re-inserted:::::::::
Of course, even with a gingerly done attempt at removal and then coin reinsertion a paper tear can occur over the hole just as you point out. In contrast, howevr, most of the sets I purchasd years ago never had any evidence on their backs of "tampering" or manipulation whatever as no one bothered to inspect the coins. They usually were all snugly held in their holes so that if you placed the boards upside down and tapped a little on the back nothing would fall out. Such sets are scarcely encountered today.
<< <i> In contrast, howevr, most of the sets I purchasd years ago never had any evidence on their backs of "tampering" or manipulation whatever as no one bothered to inspect the coins. >>
This is the most important point. Until the last few years there was extremely limited interest in any of the modern coins in high grade. Even those few who have actually collected the coins tended not to be aware of the quality available in the mint sets. Now there are people looking for the high grade coins and the proof like coins but this wasn't true just a few years ago. Still there are significant segments of the hobby who aren't aware that some of these coins are val- uable and will just flop the sets when they are purchased from the original owners. While there are few of the older sets left, there are still fresh sets coming on the market and these are often entirely original.
It should also be noted that cherry picking works both ways. Sometimes many sets were picked apart to make just a few gem sets. These sets do occasionally come on the market at bid!
Here's a great old thread. There's been a lot of water under the bridge since it was started and a few changes have occured while all the trends mentioned pre- viously seem to remain in place.
One of the greatest changes is the rapidity withwhich the newer sets have been cherried. While there are still significant numbers of some original coins in these sets, others have become quite difficult to find which haven't been picked over. This would apply to most all the old double mint sets and most of the Ike sets. Even half dollars and the smaller denominations are getting decidely tough in the better grades. Unopened boxes of mint sets have gained large premiums which they didn't have when this thread was begun. This premium will even exceed the total value of all the coins in an average set sometimes; collectors are paying a premium to find the finest coins raw.
The intervening months have seen the destruction of many more of these sets and and more collectors looking. A three tier market is developing for the sets. Many are being sold at retail prices which tend to be far higher than typical mark-up in the indus- try, original sets and choice/gem sets are selling at another level, and it appears a third tier for typical and picked over sets may be starting on the wholesale level.
Comments
Your point is well taken, but I don't think the evidence of indentation or even tearing on the back of the paper of cards necessarily means the set is not original. I took the coins out of a 58 mint set to look at (knowing the source and knowing they were original) and as careful as I tried to be (real, real careful) I still ended up causing some tearing in the paper of the cards. Some of that paper is so fragile now, it's almost impossible to look at the reverse of a coin without ripping it, or indenting it. This goes a long way to backing up your point. Certainly an untouched set will not show any of that. But, just because there is evidence the coins have been looked at, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is not an original set. It still may well be. Again, you just won't know unless it is obvious the coins are mismatched. Just my opinion.
Still enjoying this thread. In fact I put a link to it in an eBay auction I am currently running.
Carl
I agree entirely with your point. I stated in my prior note:::::::::But please note that if minor bubbling is present the set can still be completely original as a numismatist may have plucked a few coins out to inspect and then carefully re-inserted:::::::::
Of course, even with a gingerly done attempt at removal and then coin reinsertion a paper tear can occur over the hole just as you point out. In contrast, howevr, most of the sets I purchasd years ago never had any evidence on their backs of "tampering" or manipulation whatever as no one bothered to inspect the coins. They usually were all snugly held in their holes so that if you placed the boards upside down and tapped a little on the back nothing would fall out. Such sets are scarcely encountered today.
Best of luck,
Ricardouno
<< <i> In contrast, howevr, most of the sets I purchasd years ago never had any evidence on their backs of "tampering" or manipulation whatever as no one bothered to inspect the coins. >>
This is the most important point. Until the last few years there was extremely limited interest
in any of the modern coins in high grade. Even those few who have actually collected the coins
tended not to be aware of the quality available in the mint sets. Now there are people looking
for the high grade coins and the proof like coins but this wasn't true just a few years ago. Still
there are significant segments of the hobby who aren't aware that some of these coins are val-
uable and will just flop the sets when they are purchased from the original owners. While there
are few of the older sets left, there are still fresh sets coming on the market and these are often
entirely original.
It should also be noted that cherry picking works both ways. Sometimes many sets were picked
apart to make just a few gem sets. These sets do occasionally come on the market at bid!
was started and a few changes have occured while all the trends mentioned pre-
viously seem to remain in place.
One of the greatest changes is the rapidity withwhich the newer sets have been
cherried. While there are still significant numbers of some original coins in these
sets, others have become quite difficult to find which haven't been picked over.
This would apply to most all the old double mint sets and most of the Ike sets. Even
half dollars and the smaller denominations are getting decidely tough in the better
grades. Unopened boxes of mint sets have gained large premiums which they didn't
have when this thread was begun. This premium will even exceed the total value of
all the coins in an average set sometimes; collectors are paying a premium to find
the finest coins raw.
The intervening months have seen the destruction of many more of these sets and
and more collectors looking. A three tier market is developing for the sets. Many are
being sold at retail prices which tend to be far higher than typical mark-up in the indus-
try, original sets and choice/gem sets are selling at another level, and it appears a
third tier for typical and picked over sets may be starting on the wholesale level.