Is this Two Cent piece brown or red-brown?

Russ

And, how is the difference defined? Are there specific criteria?

Russ, NCNE

Pushkin

Could be RB, a little hard to tell from the photo; need to look for the elusive "luster".

airplanenut

Fingerprint !

Pushkin

<< <i>Fingerprint ! >>



Must be RB, no self-respecting BN would have a fingerprint.

kieferscoins

RB.

Cameron Kiefer

Russ

Cool, a vote for RB. But, what makes it RB? What is the definition?

Russ, NCNE

shylock

Rick Montgomery referred to it as a 10-15% rule -- a copper will still be RD with 10-15% brown, and can still be brown with 10-15% red -- in this Q&A thread. This 2-cent piece is one of those borderline examples on the B/RB end of the spectrum.

Russ

Thanks, Shylock. So, if I understand correctly, if this coin were to make the RB designation it would be because the grader thought it still had somewhere better than 10% to 15% of the red left?

Russ, NCNE

KlectorKid

RB... I'm not shylock but, im pretty sure u have it correct

coinguy1

Russ, it looks RB.

Color designations, like cameo and deep/ultra cameo designations and grading itself, are, unfortunately, somewhat subjective and inconsistent.

For the RB designation on copper coins, it is often a combination of how much red or faded red color remains (15% to 20% sounds like a good rule of thumb, to me), along with where the color is located on the coin. For example, I believe it helps if the RB color is more prominent on the obverse, as opposed to the reverse and likewise, more toward the central portions of the coin, as opposed to the outer borders. These are generalities and by no means, absolutes, however.

There is another consideration I'd like to mention. Some RB coins are virtually entirely a faded/mellowed red color, while others are primarily brown in hue, but have portions of red or faded red remaining/mixed in. In the images you posted, the appearance (if accurate) is more like the former than the latter. I see lots of faded red and little, if any brown color. So for me, it would be an easy RB call.

shylock

Rick's description was a bit vague but that's how I interpreted it. In reality you see a lot of borderline examples that probably could grade differently on any given day. The tweeners all come down to a gut feeling, not science. Maybe they just flip your coin?

Pushkin

<< <i>Rick Montgomery referred to it as a 10-15% rule -- a copper will still be RD with 10-15% brown, and can still be brown with 10-15% red >>



Correct - however, in reality, SOME PCGS and NGC graders will grade a coin RD if it has 30% brown and others will grade a coin that is 100%RD as RB. Unless the coin is a very high MS or PR number, the grading is all "over the place". So, submit your coin, write your check, and wait for the dice to roll. Keep rolling those dice until two faces come up RD.

danglen

Since I took Coinguy1's grading course, the answer is obviously RB

Russ

Well, I'd be a happy pup if it got the RB designation. I only paid $39 for it.

Russ, NCNE

shylock

If this coin is RD, perhaps we're shortchanging the 2 Cent piece by calling it RB.

jdimmick

Russ,
I hate to say but I dont think the color designation is going to much matter, the coin is not mintstate or even borderline in my opinion.

if it is please correct me??

Russ

jdimmick,

I honestly don't know. I'm still learning about these so I have a tough time telling the difference between wear and a weak strike. I do know, though, that I have a PCGS slabbed MS62RB 1865 that looks a lot more worn than this one.

Russ, NCNE

jdimmick

Russ,

Its hard to tell from the photo's, if it is a weak strike, with the luster still evident, then the photo does not depict it well.

Some of the other forum members might could give you a little more feedback on two-cent pieces, but I dont think that the 1865 is typically weakly struck, which does not mean that that one isnt.

But if it is, you may want to consider your purchase price, most people will not want to pay solid mint-state money, irregardless of the color to get a weaker strike coin, when this date is available in mint state with a good strike.

Its usually takes a difficult date, and or date that is always found weak to bring normal pricing, even then its still based on the individual merits of each coin.

thanks for the comment back
jim

Russ

<< <i>But if it is, you may want to consider your purchase price, most people will not want to pay solid mint-state money >>



Well, since I paid Extra Fine money for it, I'm not particularly concerned.

Here is the 1865 slabbed by PCGS as MS62RB:



If I saw that coin raw, there's no way I would have thought it was mint state. But, as I said, I don't know much about these yet.

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl

not a big fan of the whole "br, rb, rd" thing, but that coin looks a bit suspicious to me. original? or is the image just tuned up a bit?

K S