Toned coin collectors. When buying ....

Gilbert

I posed this in a separately titled thread, but I am really interested in some opinions, so I thought it needed its own thread, with a title more appropriate to the question.

I hit a couple of the "toned" dealer web sites over the weekend, and was sorely tempted by quite a few, except, I just couldn't find a coin with a date that may have more to it than just color. I am by no means belittling "toned" coins, I just look and desire more than a standard issue coin, meaning, some variety potential.

Question to the "afficianados." Do you buy "toned" coins based solely on the look, or does series and grade to a lesser extent all that matters? Before you answer, I ask because, while reviewing the various "toned" inventories, I noticed quite a few that only displayed the toned side. One site didn't even have the coins identified or categorized, and I had to enlarge each and every image just for a description and the date of issue. I mean, in my case, I don't want to buy a coin just because: I really prefer to acquire specific coins, and if they are nicely toned, all the better. But, the way some of the sites were laid out, I got the impression that some people buy just for the color alone, regardless of the series, date and condition.

Tonekiller

Color, date/grade, slab, then raw is how I buy. On monsters the grade and slab matter in MS64+coins.

TBT

Clankeye

Gilbert--
It is pretty rare that I would by a coin outside of my collecting interests just for the toning any more. That is a discipline that has come with age and diminished coin funds.
I would buy a common date coin though, just for the toning. Here is a prime example of that:

Colorful Carver

This auction is for an extremely common coin. A 1952 Washington Carver. As you can see it has very colorful, vibrant toning. I would buy this coin. I would not buy it at the price it has reached already, but it's certainly a toned coin I would pay some premium for, even though it is as common as they come.

One very cool part of numismatics if you are interested in toned coins, is when you find a coin you collect, with attractive toning, that doesn't usually come with great toning. An example of that would be like AgentJim007's Lincoln that he got recently. Lincoln's just do not come with colorful, irridescent toning very often. To find those kind of coins can really be fun.

I'm not sure I directly spoke to any of your questions. But... that's what I feel like saying.

Carl

TomB

I probably read like a broken record to those of you who have been on the Boards a while, but I'll write it again; I buy coins with the "look" nearly regardless of series, date or grade. An exception to this is Morgan dollars in that there are a relatively enormous number of nicely toned Morgans and also quite a few collectors of this series, however, I usually don't care for them. I would think that a dealer would want to show you both sides of the coin and have good images of the coin as well as a description, but we all know that not everyone will go to that minimal level of customer satisfaction. I certainly am very happy when I can find a toned coin from a series or date that is not usually encountered but I will buy Washington after Washington if they are nicely toned and not exhorbitantly priced. My ideas of an exhorbitant price is no doubt much higher than most other Board members ideas but seems to be lower than what many, many folks want for nicely toned coins at present. At this point I figure that either the toning market has passed me by or that the toning market is a bubble. As always, buy what you like with money you can afford to lose.

DesertLizard

Is it my imagination or does it seem like 99% of the "monster" toned Morgans are common dates? Leads me to wonder is this just a coincidence? Or, do coin docs dare not practice their trade on more expensive coins??!!

TomB

To respond to DesertLizard, I would say it is likely that 99% of monster toned Morgans are common date coins simply because 99% of Morgans are common date coins. In other words, there aren't many key date Morgans available so it is logical to assume that you would rarely see these as monsters. Also, in the case of key date, monster Morgans I would think that they would trade privately at a much higher clip than generic coins. One other thing, I think it was Wayne Miller, in the first edition of his book, who mentioned that many key date Morgans with nice toning had been dipped by dealers because the clients for these dealers wanted blast white key date coins and not nicely toned pieces. So, the relative percentage of these coins should be even lower.

FC57Coins

Following up to Gilbert's post in my previous thread, I started thinking about what went through my mind as I purchased two toned coins this weekend - AFTER I had told myself that I wasn't going shopping this weekend. First came the 1878CC dollar that I bought yesterday. The factors that entered into that picture were some of the ones that we've talked about on here. First of all it's not a run of the mill Morgan. I thought about what Desert Lizzard posted and I think TomB is absolutely right - overall there are lots of common date morgans, and hence you see these come up toned. The 78CC that I bought is one of the less common, though by no means uncommon. I liked the fact that it was a CC first of all, then the strike was very pleasing, and the color appealed to me. Given those factors, I braced myself for what my friendly neighborhood dealer was going to ask for it - given that he was now dealing in a lot of toned Morgans. When he told me the price, which was slightly over the "ask" price, I felt that it had everything going for it that I would want, so I took it - hook line and sinker.

As for the toned Morgan that I got from TBT this morning, I had been looking for a really nice rainbow coin, and while what I have been really wanting was a nice blue and yellow/gold coin, with prooflike fields (I can dream can't I?) this one was very impressive and given TBT's reputation, I couldn't pass up the price. So then, in my mind the quality of the coin, and the fact that I had the money to spend on it became key factors.

Frank

nwcs

For me, when it comes to toned coins I have two things I look at: does the color really get me excited? can I possibly afford it? That's why I've been trying to find toned examples in dealer shops where they do not worry about toning. I got a nice original toned morgan this weekend. It's not super spectacular, but I like it. No premium. I have several nicely toned coins for no premium. A franklin with some pink toning, SAE with purple toning, roosies with pink toning, etc. But none that would probably get the premium these pieces we see on the board would get.

nwcs

Tone killer, it should be against the law for you to have such nice coins to sell!

Gilbert

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. Can I safely conclude that very nicely toned coins are somewhat limited, so, if color is your "driving force," you take them as they come?

FC57Coins

<< <i>if color is your "driving force," you take them as they come? >>



That would work for me, given that my goal is to collect different toning varieties.

Frank

FrattLaw

I might be the somewhat different toned collector. Since I'm trying and trying is the operative word to assemble a registry set of toned Peace dollars, I don't get to be that choosy. I have to go after date first, then strength of the toning. It is very difficult to find any Peace dollar with toning.

Second, I look for grade, since I can't afford the high grade toned Peaces and for the most part, I try to find anything between MS60-65. Usually, I don't find Peace dollars above 65 with toning anyway.

Slab is unimportant as long I as think I can cross the coin to NGC. I prefer NGC holders since I think the white tends to display the color better.

And finally, price. For the most part there aren't too many collectors of toned Peaces since most don't like the coin or like it blast white and therefore prices usually stay reasonable for tone coins, that is.

I actually purchase a 35-S toned Peace in a PCGS MS63 for less then what an MS63 is worth. A PCGS MS 63 28-S I bought might have been 1/3 more then the value of a blast white MS63.

Lastly, I also try to purchase different types of toning. I'm not looking for a matched set. I perfer variety of all the types of toning.

Just my 2 cents.

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection

pmh1nic

I've purchased a few coins just because I liked the toning but for the most part I try to exercise some discipline and stick to the series I'm working on at the moment. Of course a monster could become my excuse for starting on a new series ).

P.S. Does anyone know of a good book or website that has pictures of different types of toning with explanations on how a particular type of toning developed?

FC57Coins

Paul:

Here is a link with some good information, although I haven't been able to find a truly comprehensive source for toned coins other than tidbits here and there.

Frank

Toned Coins

gemtone65

Unless you have a pretty large budget and lots of free time, you need to decide how to best limit your search. For me, that invloves first eliminating any coin grading less than MS/PR65, with the exception of a few very rare sorts of coins like bust dollars or patterns, where a slighhtly lower grade would tolerated. Next is series, and during the past 5 years I've chosen Morgans. prior to that time I collected 18th century type and patterns. Grading service is last. I'll look at anything nice in PCGS, NGC, ICG, and ANACS holders, and have coins from all 4 services in my collection. ICG and ANACS will push a coin with great toning by half a point versus PCGS; NGC will do so for one-quarter of a point.

Despite these preferences, I have been tempted to expand into high grade pieces in other series, especially when I see a very attractive toned coin available for sale. The question I ask myself is: how will I feel if I have to pass on the next great toned dollar because my discretionary funds were used to acquire 2 wonderfully toned Franklins? So far I have resisted diversifying, but I must admit that it's difficult to do when a monster toned piece in a different series is available for a reasonable price. This can happen at certain regional auctions.