Browsing the NGC forums

WWBillman

Just wonder how many PCGS forum members ever go look around over at the NGC forums. Are you ever curious who posts on both forums. Its like Dr. Jeckel & Mr. Hyde sometimes.

Fairlaneman

MrLee

coinguy1

ClarkOfKent

I was just there... along with half of the members of this forum. Seems we're having some technical difficulties over here. My last post to this thread never did go through.

EVillageProwler

technology allows me to participate on both sites, and i like it that i have choices...

evp

cacheman

MAULUMALL

sorta..................I can't post there but I read it every day

TONEDDOLLARS

I'm a switch hitter

Fairlaneman

Common Sense allows Me Not to Post at both places.

WWBillman

I'm beginning to think we need to add a second defination to the term Troll.....

ClausUrch

DHeath

Tootawl

WWBillman

<< <i>Common Sense allows Me Not to Post at both places. >>


Yep, I actually registered over there but afterwards I decided its not a place I need to be. A lot of what is said there is derogatory to PCGS and its forum members so all it could lead to is trouble so my user name there is doomed to forever have a big fat zero in the posts column.

nwcs

I've posted some on there, but there is more to read and reply to here.

fcloud

Yep, I actually registered over there but afterwards I decided its not a place I need to be. A lot of what is said there is derogatory to PCGS and its forum members so all it could lead to is trouble so my user name there is doomed to forever have a big fat zero in the posts column

There are a lot of people over here that are derogatory to PCGS, too!

BlueCole

yes, i'm bi-board. But i'm here alot more.

B.

GP

actually, many of the posters there also post here, or did at one time.

Dog97

I check NGC sometimes but all I ever see is the same old members bashing each other and trolling and talking about the PCGS boards. It's so dull over there they actual link threads from the PCGS board.

Sealyp

Android

66Tbird

EVillageProwler

Yep, I actually registered over there but afterwards I decided its not a place I need to be. A lot of what is said there is derogatory to PCGS and its forum members so all it could lead to is trouble so my user name there is doomed to forever have a big fat zero in the posts column.

I'm a member here as well as there (longer here than there), and I've never felt insulted by anything said over there...

EVP

robertpr

I go there once in a while when I get bored over here, just to remind myself how exciting this board is. The NGC board practically puts me to sleep. I think I have one or two posts on their boards but that's it.

And yes they do talk about the PCGS boards an awful lot...

ursabear

WWBillman

<< <i>I'm a member here as well as there (longer here than there), and I've never felt insulted by anything said over there... >>



Thats because the only topic over there is always about these boards and you are the one doing most of the insulting. JMHO

You are acting like a kid on the play ground running back and forth instigating $hit in one group and then running back to the other where you think they cannot see or hear to point fingers and insult them. Just kinda what it looks like....

IrishMike

Bill, why do you care what is going on over at NGC? Sounds to me that you are just looking to stir up trouble again. If its so boring and not worthwhile there, why do you care? Sounds to me like you are the school kid in this scenario.

EVillageProwler

Bill,

Take a chill pill. And, stop whining about the NGC forums traffic.

EVP

jtryka

I post on both, and I must admit that since I am the same person in real life, anything I say on one, I would say one the other and vice versa. Since both are public forums, you'd have to be an idiot to do otherwise. Lately I've been spending more time over there, since I am resistant to drinking the DHall Koolaid, and since I am very busy and just don't have time to keep up over here. When you have a busy real life like I have lately, the NGC forum is more your speed, and easier to keep up with. Just my opinion though.

PS-Now I have to get back to the NGC forum to tell them all how you guys are bashing us again!

WWBillman

Mike,

I do not want to start anything.

I see some members who I have to question the motives and their actions here. Why come here and stir this pot? Then go back to the NGC forum and start threads talking about it? Here are some quotes from that forum and this is only a few I could pull out.

Calling Mr. Hall “the Great One” and making statements like “Yet, I'm sure the masses will want to see, tough and hear from their God again!”

“The CU boards is somewhat of a PCGS political convention. Haven't you been reading some of the G-D awful moronic Hail to the Chief comments over there?”

“It's scary seeing a cult of personality developing; it's a case study in how the Hitlers of the world acquired their following.”

“Of course, there are also those who got lead to the hard koolaid and drank copiously!”

“There're plenty of sheep over there, and they're easily lead hither and thither.”

“In a way, I feel like a talking head that you see on TV spouting stuff about a recent major event even though I have absolutely no qualifications whatsoever to justify my commentary!”
How true that could be.

“I want to be optimistic about PCGS, but I wish DHall would go away. He's a blight on all that I think is right about our hobby.” Could this be a motive for ill will?

“Haven't found an ostrich yet who'll make a fortune like you are telling them to do. Apparantly they aren't complete believers in the bull they spew. “

“The ultimate post-1964 ostrich of all, Wondercoin”

There is a lot of insulting and conflict here and I wonder if part of it is not started and or contributed to in an attempt to give PCGS and the forums as many black eyes as possible or just for the amusement of a few on the NGC board?

IrishMike

But Bill, why do you care?

EVillageProwler

WWB,

You quoted me a few times. I'm flattered!!!

Just so you know, it's people like you who give this site a black eye. The negative comments made over there only serves to give *that* site a black eye. What you say here, with your attitude and all, is your sole responsibility.

BTW, truth hurts, doesn't it?!? What sound does a sheep make?

EVP

PS Don't cry, ok? And, stop whining.

keithdagen

WooHoo, quoted twice.

I say the same stuff here that I do there.

The only difference is nobody gives a damn anymore about coins on this board, so I do not post my coin pics here anymore.

EVillageProwler

Keith,

I still care about coins. You know that. And, so do folks like TDN, Michael, Jtryka, etc. But, we're also across the street.

EVP

WWBillman

Mike,

I am not and do not want to fight this battle. My only point is, you do not see the PCGS forum members running over there and stirring the pot disrupting the boards and then come back here pointing fingers and laughing about it.

Can you honestly tell me why it goes on over there?

If NGC is the beat all grading service in the eyes of the members there why such a fixation with PCGS?


<< <i>But Bill, why do you care? >>


I care for the same reasons you care. All this does is divide collectors into two warring parties. Most of it is unnecessary and has no value to the hobby.

EVP,

I am not even going to respond to your constant insulting. All I ever hear from you is negativity, bad mouthing, and general insulting.

EVillageProwler

BILL, STOP WHINING. STOP WHINING NOW. STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

jtryka

<< <i>I care for the same reasons you care. All this does is divide collectors into two warring parties. Most of it is unnecessary and has no value to the hobby. >>



Bill, which hobby is that? Collecting coins? Or Collecting plasic holders with numbers on them that happen to have these annoying hunks of metal inside? I was very disappointed, frustrated and downright ticked at both boards over the last week since all the hullabaloo over Rick's leaving and DHall's damage control. I bet 95% of the postings on this board last week were about those topics. And yes, grading and the slabbing companies are important to the coin market, but they are not MY HOBBY. I collect coins, bought a few today, and you know what? the only plastic I got was a few 2x2 flips and the mylar that enshrouded a 1981 mint set.

WWBillman

jtryka,

And that means what?
1. You are a more advanced collector who has the knowledge and confidance to spend your money on raw coins accepting the risks associated with it.
2. You are in for a huge financial loss one day when you discover you have been sold "annoying hunks of metal" not inside a slab for a reason.



Why is a collector who feels more comfortable spending their money on graded coins considered a collector of plastic? Are they of no value to your hobby? Are the "annoying hunks of metal inside" not coins?

jtryka

I liken it to those people that buy a car (such as a Hyundai or Yugo or some cheap car) and then spend thousands of dollars on a huge loud stereo system. Are they car enthusiasts? Should they be hanging out with the folks that spend their time working on their cars for their own enjoyment and may not even have a radio in their cars? Clearly, I look at this as a hobby, a source of enjoyment, a place to spend a little money and enjoy the hunt and the spoils that I find. By your own words "to spend your money on raw coins accepting the risks associated with it" and "You are in for a huge financial loss one day " you view this as more of a financial proposition. That's fine nothing wrong with that. But I spend 80 hours a week, working with lots of money and on the weekends, I'd like a hobby where I can blow a few grand and have something of beauty. I spent a couple hundred bucks on raw coins today, if they are all fakes, then I lost the equivalent of half the bar tab for my trading desk last night. If you are that worried about a financial loss, then perhaps you are spending too much of your resources on coins, and would be better off diversifying your investments. Finally, a slab is not a guarantee against a financial loss, far from it. Just ask all the folks that spent thousands of dollars on certified MS-65 Morgans a decade ago, or in a few years ask all the folks spending thousands on state quarters today if they've lost money. Slabs only prevent sellers from committing outright fraud (most of the time) but they do not prevent buyers from being stupid.

oreville

<< <i>Slabs only prevent sellers from committing outright fraud (most of the time) but they do not prevent buyers from being stupid. >>



But that is the one thing that separates our hobby from the stock market or even the real estate market in "oceanfront" property?

Also slabbing is at least 50% of the battle benefiting the buyer?

jtryka

<< <i>But that is the one thing that separates our hobby from the stock market or even the real estate market in "oceanfront" property? >>



What really separates them is that for some of us it is a hobby, for others an investment, it depends on the focus of the person involved. Any of the markets you mention can be either a hobby, investment or both, it depends on the person's perspective. I view coins as a hobby and stocks and real estate as investments, and I treat them as such. Now if you are implying that slabbing services such as PCGS/NGC etc make the coin market safer that the stock market, you are quite mistaken. I have worked on Wall Street for more than a decade, and despite what you may think in light of recent high profile events, the stock market is one of the most highly regulated market anywhere. After all, I can lose my licenses, face fines and criminal prosecution (i.e. jail time) for violating securities regulations. Are coin dealers licensed? Can PCGS impose fines and prosecute dealers? Can PCGS bar a dealer from ever again working in the coin market? And if you think that slabs mean that there is less fraud in coins than in stocks, you are sorely mistaken as the level of fraud in coins (slabbed and raw) dwarfs the level of fraud in the stock market. It's only the dollar amounts that are larger in securities fraud, simply because the entire coin market is probably smaller than the dollar value of the trading volume on the three major exchanges in a single day. Dealers can commit fraud with less reputable slabbing services, and they can also rip people off convincing them that this PCGS coin is "PQ" and charge a premium, even if the coin is weak for the grade, or heaven forbid, overgraded! If the buyer doesn't know what to look for, they can be taken advantage of by unscrupulous dealers.

As a hobbyist, I approach these things differently. I research what I collect dilligently, so I know the telltale signs of alteration, cleaning, etc. Then when I see a coin I like, slabbed or not, I pay what I feel it's worth. Sometimes I agree with the grade on the slab, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I just get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach, and I pass. Sometimes I get taken, and I chalk that up to the cost of an education. If it all comes down to money, I think you miss the point. Do you worry when you take a vacation that the memories may decline in value over time? Do you worry that you might lose money on the set of golf clubs you just bought? Or how about the computer you're reading this one? If you did, eventually you would find yourself living in a cave with a bunch of guns and canned goods protecting a cardboard box full of $100 bills.

abmluce

Bill, you brought up a good point, at which time you were somewhat attacked. I made the point over there that if this forum didn't exist, that forum would have about 2 posts per day. With all the good and bad, this forum is much more active.

toners

Post on both as TONERS, but mostly here. good info on each forum.
Allen

Twowood

I like this format and, since the folks are basically the same on both boards, I'll stay here. Twowood

toothpuller

jtryka says

"the level of fraud in coins [slabbed and otherwise] dwarfs the level of fraud in the stockmarket"


Wow, I certainly hope not, dwarfs is a large [pun] adjective, and Wall Street is currently riddled with fraud [Enron, Grubman and the so-called analysts, Arthur Andersen and the accountants to just start].

This would mean the amount of fraud in coins is monumental. Can you please tell us where all the fraud is occurring and don't the reputable grading services [PCGS, NGC, ANACS] eliminate some of this potential
chicanery?

At least with coins the individual buyer can usually make an informed decision, while in the stock market the shareholder is at the mercy of the information a company reports.

Sorry to get off the thread topic.

Dog97

WWBillman why is everybody flaming you? Are you one of those Dr. Jeckel & Mr. Hyde troublemakers from the NGC board?
But to answer your ? yes I post on the board over there sometimes, yes I have Reg Sets over there, and yes I buy NGC holdered coins.

IrishMike

I saw that post abmluce and chuckled, you and about 4 other folks who post the same stuff that is intended to stir up things are far better served over here. That board has only been open for a short time, you expected what immediate participation overnight. I think your purposes for posting are way better served if you stay here. On that we can both agree on.

EVillageProwler

Toothpuller:

If you're looking for an example of fraud in our industry, how 'bout the doctoring (A/T, puttying, etc.) of coins? There's no legal liability to the coin doctors for what they do, or to those who are intentionally selling these worked-on material as if they had NOT been worked on.

Or, how about the practice of have dealers' associations put out price guides in supposed independent publications? I forget which magazine, but I think maybe it's CoinAge that puts out a valuation guide that was generated with numbers supplied by dealers. And, how about the CU practice of putting out its price guide while it also buys/sells and grades?

The SEC would NEVER allow this to happen in the securities industry. This would be considered a serious infraction of some major securities laws.

EVP

EVillageProwler

Bill, you brought up a good point, at which time you were somewhat attacked. I made the point over there that if this forum didn't exist, that forum would have about 2 posts per day. With all the good and bad, this forum is much more active.

Err, I believe your so-called facts of the situation is rather distorted.

First, let me say that the comments about the traffic over there were a type of attack already, but we'll move past that.

Second, he attacked my response by saying all sorts of negative things about me. The exact words escape me, but you can go back and read for yourself if you like.

Third, it's fine that that other site is not for you. But, many others like it. So, how about we simply live and let live, ok? And, if that other site truly is bad, then it'll eventually die a natural death. And, you can have a good laugh about it when it happens...

EVP

toothpuller

EVP

Your regulatory point is well taken. At least the securities business has the SEC to prosecute. The coin industry does not have anything like that arm. As I recall David Hall said PCGS is going after the coin doctor who they suspect applied the cosmetic to the doctored Saint. What can they do in this instance and what do you suppose will happen to the doc, if anything?