Lakers lost again!

autobilia · November 12, 2002 1:52PM

And Shaq is out probably 2 more weeks.

UofAWildcatFan · November 12, 2002 1:59PM

So what are the Lakers.. 2-6 now?? I'm too lazy to look it up.

KBryant1 · November 12, 2002 2:00PM

yeah 2-6 dallas plays lakers in a week

Undertaker · November 12, 2002 2:02PM

so what? jeesh why is everyone so concerned about the Lakers? Of course they're weak now (if not VERY weak) but hey.. wait till Shaq daddy comes back, you won't have to make any of these posts again

rooks · November 12, 2002 2:08PM

I doubt shaq will be out 2 more weeks. If he is, the lakers will be like 4-12

autobilia · November 12, 2002 2:09PM

<< so what? jeesh why is everyone so concerned about the Lakers? Of course they're weak now (if not VERY weak) but hey.. wait till Shaq daddy comes back, you won't have to make any of these posts again >>

Hehe just wonder where Super Kobe is and about all that stuff he can do without Shaq. You know.. those last year scenerios. Those, "Kobe would score 40+ a game without Shaq, Kobe would have better stats without Shaq, Kobe can lead the Lakers without Shaq, etc." Ok.. we found that to be false. Then Kobe's team stinks. Ok. Tonight, Kobe had 21 points, Brian Shaw had 17 (5-6 from the arc), Rick Fox had 14, and Medv had 10. So, it looks like his team did play and Shaw has been a VERY effective clutch 3 point shooting the last couple of games. I'm not going to start those "Kobe is overrated" threads again... but seeing is believing. The Lakers without Shaq is like our Solar system without the sun. Once it is gone, everything around it goes cold.

autobilia · November 12, 2002 2:13PM

<< I doubt shaq will be out 2 more weeks. If he is, the lakers will be like 4-12

>>

Here you go:

"Nov. 12: According to the LA Times, Shaquille O'Neal could be two more weeks away from returning for the Lakers. "I'm disappointed, but this is something I don't want to rush," he said Monday. "When I get in, I want to stay in. Hopefully, I'll be back in a couple weeks. When I do come back, it will be vengeance. A lot of people are taking shots. I read that. So, when I come back, I'll be motivated to play."

UofAWildcatFan · November 12, 2002 2:13PM

I agree with you Undertaker. When the big daddy comes back the Lakers will dominate. We all know that.

What we are presently seeing is that Kobe cannot carry this team. And obviously Kobe needs Shaq to pad his stats in helping the Lakers pile up wins. And yea, what Auto said.

rooks · November 12, 2002 2:15PM

UofA, please name me one player who has carried his team by himself throughout an entire year. Did you watch the game? Dont try to say that the laker role players are stepping up. They shot horribly tonight. So shaw has had a couple good games. Where was he the first 6 games? Thats the problem, the role players are way too inconsistent, one game a player like shaw has 18, the next he has 5.

autobilia · November 12, 2002 2:18PM

<< UofA, please name me one player who has carried his team by himself throughout an entire year. Did you watch the game? Dont try to say that the laker role players are stepping up. They shot horribly tonight. So shaw has had a couple good games. Where was he the first 6 games? Thats the problem, the role players are way too inconsistent, one game a player like shaw has 18, the next he has 5. >>

T-Mac, last season. Grant Hill & Mike Miller were forever on the injury list.

autobilia · November 12, 2002 2:19PM

The problem is, they left Fisher in.

rooks · November 12, 2002 2:20PM

um, tmac has miller, armstrong and a much better team than the lakers. Plus he plays in the eastern conference. You cannot compare this bunch of chumps kobe has to play with like slava medvedenko and samaki walker. Plus tmac talked all that trash and went out in the first round

NikeBasketball · November 12, 2002 2:21PM

I can name 1 player who carries his team the entire year.It's Shaq the Lakers record for the season proves that.
Also Iverson in 00'01,McGrady in 01'02,There are many single players who have carried they're team.I Like kobe but always disagreed with what alot of folks would say about him being the Laker's backbone.This year they're getting how wrong that is proven to them.

rooks · November 12, 2002 2:23PM

shaq would not be winning without kobe on this current laker team. He would be triple teamed and put on the foul line constantly. Who else in going to step up? They have no consistent players but shaq and kobe, without those two playing together the lakers are toast

JoeBenson · November 12, 2002 2:30PM

Sad thing is these Lakers/Kobe chumps talk about "McGrady went out in the 1st Round", well Kobe would be out after Lakers played 82 games if it weren't for Shaq, Eastern or Western Conference, THE END...T-Mac has had who at center, Declerq (averages more fouls than poitns, 22 minutes tonight, 4 fouls, 2 points, 0 rebounds), Don Reid, Etc.....PATHETIC, T-Mac only dreams of people like Samaki Walker who would look alot better on the Magic....And as you seen Armstrong is OVERRATED, and he blew the last TWO GAMES, tonight his man scored at will in the clutch (4th, Alvin Williams, yeah look it up), and you say Mike Miller? He is so good he don't start this year!!! It's pathetix, T-Mac is a one-man army.....shooting 50% on the year, averaging 30 what a game?....ANYWAYS, this isn't about him, its Lakers, but yes, Lakers would be winning if Kobe was out, and Shaq was in! That's just how it is, Nobody to ever walk the face of the earth so far can be compared to Shaq, Kobe is very good player don't get me wrong, but with Shaq in is a totally different scenario!!!

UofAWildcatFan · November 12, 2002 2:30PM

Rooks I would have named a few but they were already listed by other members. Check their posts.

rooks · November 12, 2002 2:37PM

Go ahead and name others who led their team to winning record without at least 2 good players. tmac and iverson had other good players. A team needs 2. Iverson had the most dominating center in the east in mutumbo. tmac had armstrong and miller and since when is samaki walker better then declerq, i mean have you seen samaki walker play?. Who do the lakers have that compare even to those two?

JoeBenson · November 12, 2002 2:44PM

Would you take:

Rick Fox, Devean George, Brian Shaw

(pick any 2) *in place of*

mike miller (dont even start), darrell armstrong (blew 2 cons. games with his bad play) (started season on bench, but vaughn is so bad armstrong starts at PG by default)

I MEAN GEEZ, BIG DIFFERENCE IN ARMSTRONG/MILLER AND FOX/GEORGE/SHAW (TAKE YOUR COMBINATION) MAKES DIFFERENCE IN WINNING AND LOSING DOESNT IT?

and yes Declerq shouldn't be in the NBA, he is pathetic.....0 rebounds, 2 points, 4 fouls in 22 minutes.......Sad thing is, that's an average night for him, so he won't lose any sleep!

He has averaged more fouls than poitns every season in his career, please, don't compare ANYBODY to declerq, he is sooo bad!!!

rooks · November 12, 2002 2:53PM

There is no difference between amrstrong, fox, shaw and george, they are all role players. Miller has more potential than any of them. I dont get what people see in george, what has he ever done to prove he has the chance to become good. He has one or two 20 point games a year and the rest he gets 6 points and he also blows games in the last second by giving up dunks.

autobilia · November 12, 2002 3:07PM

<< um, tmac has miller, armstrong and a much better team than the lakers. Plus he plays in the eastern conference. You cannot compare this bunch of chumps kobe has to play with like slava medvedenko and samaki walker. Plus tmac talked all that trash and went out in the first round >>

Miller was on the Il more than he played last year. Samaki Walker is more of a rebounder. He gets more rebounds than he gets points. T-Mac was in the same situation last season and still carried his team to the playoffs.

rooks · November 12, 2002 3:11PM

well, kobe is avereging the same or better all around numbers this year than tmac did last year. Yet the lakers are 2-6, that tells you all you need to know about who has the better players around them. Not only is the laker bench by far the oldest in the leauge, they are the most inconsistent. They always have been

autobilia · November 12, 2002 3:38PM

<< well, kobe is avereging the same or better all around numbers this year than tmac did last year. Yet the lakers are 2-6, that tells you all you need to know about who has the better players around them. Not only is the laker bench by far the oldest in the leauge, they are the most inconsistent. They always have been >>

It's always the team and never Kobe, right?

rooks · November 12, 2002 3:51PM

You are no different, for you it is always kobe's fault. how is it kobe, he gets over 20 points, 8 assists and 10 rebounds. What else is he supposed to do? He cant play defensae for the 40 year olds horry and shaw. He cant help it that devean george choked against washington. He cant help that fisher shoots 20%. He has no control over fox getting suspended for 5 games. Its not his fault the lakers never got a decent back up for shaq. Its not his fault that he has no help without shaq because jerry buss wont pay the luxury tax. All he can do is play hard. He has to score, get the rebounds and be the point guard because the rest of the team is horrendous. This leads to him forgetting about his teamates at times and shooting low percentage shots. I dont know about you, but I do blame the rest of the team. Thats my opinion and it wont change.

autobilia · November 12, 2002 4:15PM

<< You are no different, for you it is always kobe's fault. how is it kobe, he gets over 20 points, 8 assists and 10 rebounds. What else is he supposed to do? He cant play defensae for the 40 year olds horry and shaw. He cant help it that devean george choked against washington. He cant help that fisher shoots 20%. He has no control over fox getting suspended for 5 games. Its not his fault the lakers never got a decent back up for shaq. Its not his fault that he has no help without shaq because jerry buss wont pay the luxury tax. All he can do is play hard. He has to score, get the rebounds and be the point guard because the rest of the team is horrendous. This leads to him forgetting about his teamates at times and shooting low percentage shots. I dont know about you, but I do blame the rest of the team. Thats my opinion and it wont change. >>

I didn't say anything except Kobe is overrated which he is. And we are seeing it now. See, it would be different if Shaq was playing and Kobe was out. Guards throw the ball into Shaq and then the "Hack-a-Shaq" begins until whoever fouls out. Shaq dominates the inside which gives guards room on the outside. Kobe doesn't have that kind of game. As one of you Kobe fans have stated, Kobe isn't a consistant 3 point shooter. And about rebounding..... Kobe has 83 rebounds and Samaki Walker has 62, so Kobe is not doing all of it by himself. Walker gets less PT.

rooks · November 12, 2002 4:58PM

Are you kidding me? Kobe is a guard and he has 20 more rebounds than the laker starting center. That tells me he is doing it all by himself. You still havent said how he is overated. He is putting up great numbers without shaq isnt he? Shaq can dominate all he wants on the inside, but the lakers still wont win without kobe and shaq playing together. Shaq is gonna dish it out the the wide open fisher... BRICK. The lakers still cant make open shots. Kobe creates tons of open shots for his teamates by driving and kicking out. The lakers are not hitting thier shots. You put shaw's 3 point stats up. Who do you think is getting him the open looks?

KOBEcollector · November 12, 2002 7:28PM

anyone who has actually watched the laker games so far and not just the boxscores knows thats it's been basically the same scenario all year.. and once again last night proved it..3 of the lakers starters
fisher 1-10 , horry 3-12 and samaki 2-9. also throw in the fact that devean george didn't play.. it's amazing these games so far have been even close. besides shaw in the last 3-4 games no one else seems to be helping out. lets not forget who won player of the week last week, with a little more help the record would be a bit better

TrFstPtch · November 12, 2002 8:15PM

Face it ya'll..lakers are almost as bad as the 0-8 grizzlies without Shaq

SportyJoe · November 12, 2002 9:53PM

Atlata got over on them to and i'm loving it! Its not that i'm a LA hater, its just funny they Ain't All That without the big man. Regardless of the situation, i wonder if this will solve the ego problems LA has, they are pretty humble about now. Its way to early in the season and things can change.

uwftke26 · November 12, 2002 10:14PM

If anything, this is going to add to the ego problems, because when Shaq returns both him and Kobe will have a legitamite reason to belive that they should be the dominators, and neither will have much confidence in the supporting cast.

uwftke26 · November 12, 2002 10:15PM

Also, Shaq's injury has got to concern you....he knows the Lakers desperately need him now, and he may be taking another two weeks? Someone isn't telling us everything.

Vincecarder · November 12, 2002 10:34PM

Just wondering.....if Phil the Zen master was such a great coach then why don't the Lakers have a winning record? He is suppose to be the best coach of all-time yet he can't get a winning record with a player like Kobe on his team? Ah yes.....he needs future HOFers like Shaq and Jordan to cover his a$$ and do everything for him.

The L.A Shaq's will be fine when the big man comes back and will be very difficult to knock off...probably going on to another championship. But what I'd really like to see is if this current LA team could even make the playoffs without Shaq. A dynasty is all about a great "Team" winning championships, not just one player. Kobe does help out Shaq but is effective because of all the space Shaq creates for him. Watching Kobe in the last few games, the guy tries to do absolutly everything. If he could he would pass to himself! I give him a A+ for effort for trying to lead these guys without the big man but watching these guys proves that they are nothing without the 3 time MVP. They can be beaten and I hope superman doesn't come back for a while to save them.

Well Phil better pull of some major zen to get these guys some wins...

autobilia · November 12, 2002 11:42PM

<< Go ahead and name others who led their team to winning record without at least 2 good players. tmac and iverson had other good players. A team needs 2. Iverson had the most dominating center in the east in mutumbo. tmac had armstrong and miller and since when is samaki walker better then declerq, i mean have you seen samaki walker play?. Who do the lakers have that compare even to those two? >>

Last season, Miller was on the injury list majority of the season. <--- Re-read that over and over until it sticks. Darryl Armstrong is just as inconsistant as Devean George. I know.. I had him on my fantasy league last season and this season. Iverson had Mutombo who wasn't all that good last season. You notice he didn't win Defensive Player of the Year like he usually does (Ben Wallace took that honor). On top of that, Aaron Mckie AND Eric Snow were playing with chip fractures on their ankles. Mutombo had a fractured thumb, but played anyways. George Lynch was out the entire playoffs and most of the end of the regular season. Iverson had a bruised hip in the playoffs during the Bucks series, sat out a game or 2, came back and took the team to the championship game. So, both T-Mac and Iverson had crippled teammates and still went playoff bound.

It's extremely funny how Kobe fans boost him up to be the next Jordan, or in nikobe's case, better than Jordan, but when he don't live up to the expectations, the excuses goes flying left and right. Kobe is flat out OVERrated and we are seeing that and will see it until Shaq returns. Now, we know who's the man in LA and it definately isn't the media boy Kobe.

T1Mac · November 12, 2002 11:50PM

<< UofA, please name me one player who has carried his team by himself throughout an entire year. Did you watch the game? Dont try to say that the laker role players are stepping up. They shot horribly tonight. So shaw has had a couple good games. Where was he the first 6 games? Thats the problem, the role players are way too inconsistent, one game a player like shaw has 18, the next he has 5. >>

how about tracy mcgrady?

battier · November 12, 2002 11:58PM

tmac baby

Vincecarder · November 13, 2002 12:11AM

T-Mac is a great player. I've been very impressed with him everytime I see him play....much better player than Kobe.

My problem is why don't people use his real nicknames.

"The Big Sleep" ...."Sleepy"....."Pumpkin Head"....."One Eye Willy"......I'm sure there are others...

I did love how he raised his hand when he passed the ball to Garrity for a potential game winning 3 against the Rap's.....oh was it ever sweet when it hit the rim...

KOBEcollector · November 13, 2002 1:38AM

vincecarder , a much better player than Kobe ? i think that might be a stretch huh .. considering the fact that kobe is an all nba defender that gives him the advantage on 1 huge aspect of the game..tmac has a slight advantage in ppg but check most of the other categories.. to say he is a much better player than kobe is kinda silly

uwftke26 · November 13, 2002 1:57AM

I have to agree w/ KOBEcollector here...a little while ago, Sports Illustrated did a poll asking NBA GM's if they could start a team tomorrow, what player would they select first? Shaq was excluded, since obviously everyone would say him. The results:

Tim Duncan - 14 GM's
Kobe Bryant - 9 GM's

There's the vast majority of responses right there, the rest were guys like Tmac who got 1-3 votes each.

autobilia · November 13, 2002 1:58AM

Here comes the Kobe Booster Club fully equiped with Pum-Pums, "I Love Kobe" buttons, and T-shirts.

uwftke26 · November 13, 2002 2:01AM

Auto, I'm the farthest thing from a Kobe booster, but to say Tmac is definitely better than him is a friggin joke.

KOBEcollector · November 13, 2002 2:03AM

how come it's ok for haters to start a thread bashing but it's not ok for fans to make their points..seems kind of hypocritical to me

Vincecarder · November 13, 2002 2:18AM

Everyone has their opinions man. There are people that would take Kobe over anyone in the NBA. I'd take T-Mac any day of the week over Kobe but some of you might take Bryant so whatever.

I'd love to see Orlando with Shaq in the middle with Hill and Kobe...now that would be a team to watch......Kobe and Shaq are fun to watch but the rest of the team....wow...Mr.Clutch Horry hitting open shots....is kinda dull.

autobilia · November 13, 2002 2:21AM

<< Auto, I'm the farthest thing from a Kobe booster, but to say Tmac is definitely better than him is a friggin joke. >>

Wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the Kobe Booster Club. Just waiting on the ring leader to appear.

KOBEcollector · November 13, 2002 2:23AM

your correct V.C everyone has their own opinions..if everyone had the same favorite everything this world would be pretty dull, just like the lakers without shaq and kobe

.

p.s being a lakers fan i'd rather see hill go west than to see the shaq-kobe go east

JoeBenson · November 13, 2002 3:37AM

tis tis tis......I won't say anything, because me, auto, and a few others have said time and time again, we are seeing the same thing over and over, and yet they (kobe fans) won't let it sink in. face it, he is very very good, but to say better than shaq, or even t-mac, is a little out of the question, and all defense is pretty political if you tell me, besidesmaybe 1 or 2 obvious selections, if kobe is all-defense wjhy did he need help defense every time paul pierce touched the ball, paul pierce didnt have much help defense on kobe throughout the game when he guarded him, allowing kobe to shoot 47 times, with a bad outcome...REAL laker fans would be dissapointed because they have nothing to look forward to when the dearly beloved Shaq retires in a couple years, you act like his salary can just pick up another superstar, but its not that easy, alot of great players are tied up in long-term contracts, and you'll never have another Shaq, well in short-term anyway...And there not getting many good draft picks, considering there at the bottom of the first round EVERY year! THE END, Laker fans, please realize, your looking forward to Shaq's return, but how about his permanent departure? INTERESTING

rooks · November 13, 2002 3:51AM

get this through your thick skull. No one ever said kobe was better than shaq or could win a champioship without him. Show me one post where someone said he was better than shaq. He is better than tmac because he plays defense, gets assists and rebounds. He is also mentally tougher than tmac. He is being scrutinized more than tmac will ever dream of being and he still performs. I didnt see you comment on the poll brought up about gm's wanting duncan and kobe. So people whos job it is to evaluate talent would take kobe way before tmac. hmm

autobilia · November 13, 2002 4:13AM

<< get this through your thick skull. No one ever said kobe was better than shaq or could win a champioship without him. Show me one post where someone said he was better than shaq. He is better than tmac because he plays defense, gets assists and rebounds. He is also mentally tougher than tmac. He is being scrutinized more than tmac will ever dream of being and he still performs. I didnt see you comment on the poll brought up about gm's wanting duncan and kobe. So people whos job it is to evaluate talent would take kobe way before tmac. hmm >>

Ok.. so because of the Poll, Duncan is better than Kobe? I bet that will make nikobe jump up out of his seat and cuss in 20 foreign languages.

KOBEcollector · November 13, 2002 4:18AM

maybe if you stop saying it time after time and just listen for a second no one ever said he was better than shaq. i was just responding to V.C's post about tmac being a much better player than kobe. i think we can agree that much better might be a stretch.. and you can call the all-defensive team political if you want but theres a reason why those players were picked, they play good Defense lol . and being a laker fan for over 20 years of course i'll be disappointed when shaq retires, why wouldn't i.. they went thru their struggles after the showtime era only to bounce back with good drafts ( i.e van exel, eddie jones ) and the signing of shaq and trade/draft of kobe.. who knows what will happen when shaq retires all i know is that i'll still be a fan of them regardless of record

rooks · November 13, 2002 4:21AM

It shows how people who lose thier job if they dont evaluate talent well think kobe is the thrid best in the leauge behind shaq and duncan. I have no problem saying duncan is better than kobe, he has led his team to a championship and has showed up in crunch time numerous times. I do have a problem saying tmac is better based on 8 games in an 82 game season where kobe has better all around numbers with less help. I mean tmac had 38 points last night but that doesnt help much when 3 players on the other team get 20-30 points. I thought tmac was a great defender.

NikeBasketball · November 13, 2002 4:30AM

Does anyone know what the real deal was that went down between Kobe and Adidas?. I read on hoopsology that is was because Kobe was angry about T Mac getting more endorsement money.And adidas revoked his contract.Not sure if that was true or not.

rooks · November 13, 2002 4:33AM

I seriously doubt tmac got more endorsement money, if he did then he has a better agent than kobe. Last year in the playoffs, it was nothing but kobe commercials, even I was getting sick of it.

JoeBenson · November 13, 2002 4:36AM

t-mac isnt supposed to guard all 3 players you moron, alvin williams was MOSTLY guarded by armstong, mopete had only 23 or so, and j williams was guarded mostly by pat garrity.....pierce had 28 POINTS ON KOBE AND THE SAD THING IS KOBE HAD HELP DEFENSE, WHY DONT YOU COMMENT ON THAT F@G...talking about get it through your thick skull, your a moron, a total moron....and TALK ABOUT NOT REPLYING TO ONE POST, I DONT REPLY TO EVERY POST ON THE FREAKIN THREAD, DUH, LIKE YOU SAID ABOUT TMAC 49% BEING BEST PLAYER IN NBA SO FAR POLL, ITS JUST ONE LOUSY POLL...and how can you say kobe is a better rebounder and passer than tmac, tmac averages more rebounds every year the kobe, kobe wont average as many rebounds as tmac at the end of the season, just like every other year! and how many times can you name tmac giving up more than 25 points to the player he guards, not too many, and besides tmac has to play HELP DEFENSE FOR HIS LACKING TEAMMATES!!! He is a very good defensive player, BOTTOM LINE, AUTO HAD IT RIGHT, TIME AND TIME AGAIN: KoBe BrYaNt OVERRATED!!!!!

Lakers lost again!

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