One little difference in 1949 could have changed everything? Or not?

kranky

When William Sheldon concocted the 1 through 70 grading scale in his book Early American Cents (later editions were called Penny Whimsy) the numbers were chosen based on the value of a 1794 Large cent in various conditions. A barely-identifiable one was worth $1 at the time, so the low end of the scale is 1. The nicest one you could imagine sold at the time for $70, so that was the upper end of the grading scale. The intermediate conditions were assigned numbers based on their relative cost - a low-end Unc was around $60, etc.

What if a low-end Unc at that time happened to go for $67 instead of $60? There would only be four numbers available for different grades of MS coins! I wonder if, looking at things today, we would still accept that. Only four grades from dog Unc to perfect. Would we have left it that way, or by now would things have evolved so we still managed to eke out 11 different grades (perhaps by assigning + and - qualfiers to the four grades)?

Or to look at it in another way, what if the low-end Unc at that time sold for $40? There would conceivably be 31 different grades of Unc! Had that happened, would we, today, use every one of those numbers? Or would we have just used, say, every third number and still have about 11 different grades?

What do you think would be different? Since this is all conjecture, no one can be wrong.

BillJones

Actually Sheldon only recognized three MS grades, 60, 65 and 70. Like most old times he would have thought that 11 MS grades was hairsplitting lunacy. And in some ways it is because no one would accuse any of the services of consistency.

I don’t think that the 1794 cent prices were the deciding factor for his grading and pricing system. He based the 70 point scale on years of observation, and as with most things that he made his mind up upon, his final decisions were carved in stone. I know this only from what his contemporaries said about him. I have met a number and known of them, but never the man himself.

Sheldon’s grade and price ratio system never worked. He came close to admitting that in “Penny Whimsy” when he brought in multiple price factors for the finest known examples. Still the system is still with us, and I think is well enough engrained that it will be for a long time.

cladking

The Sheldon system didn't fit well even for the coins it was designed for. It was made
for coins which were fairly evenly distributed by grade and priced by market participants
who valued quality much differently than collectors active today. Sheldon never intended
this system to be used for other coins and it has been used only very briefly. It seems
highly improbable that the 1 to 70 grading scale can last for long. Eventually there will be
standards for grading and people will not want to contort the resulting grades into an ar-
chaic and non-relevant grading system.

Bikingnut

In my opinion, there are probably too many grades between 60 and 70, and definitely between 66 and 70. Who honestly can tell me they can see the difference between a 69 and a 70? I doubt anyone really can and those who say they can, I'll still doubt it. If I were a grader, I would probably never give out a 70, because... nothings perfect.

paigowjohnny

Still serving in the US Navy. 21 years and countingText

Me too...hit 22 next May...


There are times I wish we could just go back to BU, Choice BU, and Gem BU...but those days are long gone.

cladking

<< <i>In my opinion, there are probably too many grades between 60 and 70, and definitely between 66 and 70. Who honestly can tell me they can see the difference between a 69 and a 70? I doubt anyone really can and those who say they can, I'll still doubt it. If I were a grader, I would probably never give out a 70, because... nothings perfect. >>




I've long wondered what the grade of the nicest MS-70 in a lot would be.

kranky

Was it inevitable that the grading scale would settle on 11 (plus or minus) different grades of Unc? I hear people say there are coins that are "PQ for the grade" (= we need more than 11 MS grades) and I also hear people say "nobody can grade on a one-point scale consistently" (= we have too many MS grades).

As BillJones noted, Sheldon only recognized 3 MS grades. But room was left for 11, and by gum, we use 'em all!

If the grading scale gets revamped someday, will we have more MS grades, or fewer?

Mark

Kranky:

Good question if we'd have more MS grades (my bet) or fewer.

I have another question about Sheldon. Does anyone know when he started stealing coins from the ANS? Was it before or after he wrote the first edition of his book?

Thanks in advance.

Mark

Bikingnut

Another opinion from me, (I'm just full of them), if a coin is "PQ" for the grade, shouldn't it have been one point higher?

DHeath

Ah, were it but true today that an MS65 would sell for $65 and the same coin in MS70 would sell for $70.

cladking

If coins were graded against a set of standards there would be far more grades. The
advantage would be that you'd pretty much know what a coin looks like without seeing
it. The market might come up with some ways to give a shorthand grade for pricing.