Gilbert, Pete, Joe and others, thanks for your messages.
Pete - nothing in the sender or recipient information to alert anyone as to the contents. However, we use Fedex a lot, as does the recipient. At some point, some Fedex employees apparently figure out what the contents are likely to be and, if they are dishonest, occasionally do things like this.
Not trying to bait, troll or anything of the kind - but...
Do you really think the feds would actually DO anything? The reason I ask is several examples from real life.
My wife's car was stolen. Perps were stopped driving the car. Any charges filed? Nope. Friend's business is burglarized. Perp uses a check stolen from his business to cash at his own bank for $3,250. They know who it is, they even have video. Any charges filed? Nope.
Just taking it a step further, I can imagine what the reaction to theft of coins would be.
Law enforcement commonly only enforces laws when it's expedient (possible press embarrassment) or if the poor sap is a 'regular guy' that they can take to the cleaners and destroy his life while seizing his property.
The real sleaze-balls walk.
Now obviously this is not a 100% situation, and there are many fine, dedicated law enforcement folks out there - and I have the utmost respect for them. I suppose if I were to place the blame accurately - it would be on the government lawyers who decide whether to prosecute based on their projected chances of prevailing... not on whether any crime was committed, or what kind of evidence they have.
It'd sure be refreshing to find out this situation was vigorously prosecuted, but I'd bet a "non-pointed pointed-nine dime" that they won't.
<< <i>However, we use Fedex a lot, as does the recipient. >>
I would carefully scrutinize both local branch offices and their employees, emphasising the focus on any new or recently hired personel that received your package (your end) or delivered it (his end). Look at your company also, especially if their are any new/recent hires that are responsible or come into contact with packages destined for shipping. It sure smells to me like someone knew that expensive coins were inside the package before they actually opened it.
Thanks, Loki. Our insurance agent is working on it with Fedex and is, no doubt, checking into the types of things you mentioned. We have no new employees and we are a small company in terms of personnel - the theft was definitely committed while the coins were in possession of Fedex.
I had my car stolen once, and after searching around town, I found it. We took the cops and showed them my stolen car - and they would do nothing. It was a a used car dealer locked up. Never got it back. True story.
I hope that was a first experience for both of you, but since you're both doing major business it probably isn't.
Obvisiously the drivers on both routes are the top suspects since they would have the most direct knowledge of the possible value of the contents. Backing up the next level are the people in each of the local offices. I dobut anyone in between would single out your shipment, unless it got damaged in transit and the contents fell out and they decided not to put them back in.
What could be an interesting expiriment would be to Fed Ex a number of packages with some fake coins from another location to Bev Hills and see if any get tampered with, and reverse the expirement shipping from Seattle.
Since a FedEx employee knows what a bar code is, my guess is they are out of the holder. Now that they have coins they know are valuable and and now untraceable, I would assume they would sell them at a local coin shop, since pawn shops require some ID.
Every dealer I've sold coins to worth more than a small amount paid by check.
Since a FedEx employee working in Beverly Hills sure won't be living there, and taking into account the LA traffic and the fact that people won't drive more than 1 hour to work, I'd get a list of all coin shops within a 40 mile radius and send out flyers (and all the coin shops in your town) I'd bet you'd have a chance of finding them.
You could probably get a list from the ANA by zip code - there probably quite a few in and around LA, but for the cost of some stamps you could get lucky.
You have to remember - theives aren't that bright.
You made a number of good points. This is our first experience of this type, though I know lots of other dealers that have suffered the same fate. Interestingly enough, we have learned that another dealer who shipped to the L.A. area the same day had the same thing happen to his package.
Our insurance agent has been in touch with an investigator at Fedex who is familiar with this type of theft and is investigating it. He knows what to look for and I personally believe that there's a decent possibility they'll figure out who did it. But, from others' experiences that I've heard of, there's much less chance that the coins, themselves will be recovered.
Actually Fedex will have NO insurance claims against them - our claim will be filed through our private insurance carrier, as we do not insure through Fedex. Hopefully, Fedex will investigate this with vigor but I have heard from others who have had coins stolen, that ...well, that Fedex could/would do better if they cared more.
Mark: I hope they nail these SOBs, with your coins, and your insurance carriers come through. Do not despair, yet ... criminals are not the smartest types around. They all ultimately -- generally -- slip up ... Does PCGS know to flag these cert numbers if someone tries to place them in a registry set? Pretty simple to trace it backward from there if that occurs.
i think you did everything humanly possible for a possible recovery
and i hope in the near future that either some/all of the coins can be recovered and/or the person who did this caught and proscuted to the fullest extent of the law
Relayer- You are dead solid perfect with your comments. If the FedEx employee has a fence and/or collector willing to handle the transaction, then those coins come out of those holders immediately. They may well be in NGC's grading room right now.
DCAM - agreed. We felt it highly unlikley that the coins would remain in their holders (though that has happened in some occasions). However, we still provided a list to the grading services and to dealers, nationwide, in the hopes that the coins might be recognized, if offered for sale or sumitted for grading as a group. If they are sold or submitted for grading individually over a period of time, we can forget about it.
Mark, Sorry to hear of the theft of the coins. I suspect with all the alerts being sent out the coins will surface and a complex trace will lead to arrest of the perpetrators. Of course they could remain sequestered for years but these are not the kind of coins that 30 years in the vault would satisfy the theives. Must be an inside job; either at the sending or receiving end. A coin dealer is an obvious target. Fed X must be very interested since their employees must be on the list of suspects. In addition to the sincere regrets over the loss, it raises questions for many of us. I have received hundreds of Fed X packages, with contents worth considerable amounts of money. They are hard to open and I have never opened one and checked the contents before signing off. If the insurance is null and void once the package is signed for, then I may need to rethink my practices.
In our case, we have private insurance that will reimburse us for all except our deductible (which, unfortunately is not tiny!), even though the empty package was signed for by the recipient. However, before signing for them, we inspect packages we receive, for evidence of tampering and have refused delivery of a few over the years. We feel that this practice might help the senders of the packages in question, in the event of an insurance dispute. Most other dealers we know do the same.
Comments
Pete - nothing in the sender or recipient information to alert anyone as to the contents. However, we use Fedex a lot, as does the recipient. At some point, some Fedex employees apparently figure out what the contents are likely to be and, if they are dishonest, occasionally do things like this.
Exactly right- I am sending something to David Lawrence today... goes at DLRC... I'm pretty sure Michael Dixon uses MDRC.
I never like seeing an envelope with the word coin on it... fragile, however, is a nice word to see
Not trying to bait, troll or anything of the kind - but...
Do you really think the feds would actually DO anything?
The reason I ask is several examples from real life.
My wife's car was stolen. Perps were stopped driving the car. Any charges filed? Nope.
Friend's business is burglarized. Perp uses a check stolen from his business to cash at his own bank
for $3,250. They know who it is, they even have video. Any charges filed? Nope.
Just taking it a step further, I can imagine what the reaction to theft of coins would be.
Law enforcement commonly only enforces laws when it's expedient (possible press embarrassment) or if the poor
sap is a 'regular guy' that they can take to the cleaners and destroy his life while seizing his property.
The real sleaze-balls walk.
Now obviously this is not a 100% situation, and there are many fine, dedicated law enforcement folks out there - and I have the utmost respect for them. I suppose if I were to place the blame accurately - it would be on the government lawyers who decide whether to prosecute based on their projected chances of prevailing... not on whether any crime was committed, or what kind of evidence they have.
It'd sure be refreshing to find out this situation was vigorously prosecuted, but I'd bet a "non-pointed pointed-nine dime" that they won't.
<< <i>However, we use Fedex a lot, as does the recipient. >>
I would carefully scrutinize both local branch offices and their employees, emphasising the focus on any new or recently hired personel that received your package (your end) or delivered it (his end). Look at your company also, especially if their are any new/recent hires that are responsible or come into contact with packages destined for shipping. It sure smells to me like someone knew that expensive coins were inside the package before they actually opened it.
Well you have an extra set of eyes here surfing for them proofs.
Allen
Proud member of TCCS!
sincerely michael
Obvisiously the drivers on both routes are the top suspects since they would have the most direct knowledge of the possible value of the contents. Backing up the next level are the people in each of the local offices. I dobut anyone in between would single out your shipment, unless it got damaged in transit and the contents fell out and they decided not to put them back in.
What could be an interesting expiriment would be to Fed Ex a number of packages with some fake coins from another location to Bev Hills and see if any get tampered with, and reverse the expirement shipping from Seattle.
Since a FedEx employee knows what a bar code is, my guess is they are out of the holder. Now that they have coins they know are valuable and and now untraceable, I would assume they would sell them at a local coin shop, since pawn shops require some ID.
Every dealer I've sold coins to worth more than a small amount paid by check.
Since a FedEx employee working in Beverly Hills sure won't be living there, and taking into account the LA traffic and the fact that people won't drive more than 1 hour to work, I'd get a list of all coin shops within a 40 mile radius and send out flyers (and all the coin shops in your town) I'd bet you'd have a chance of finding them.
You could probably get a list from the ANA by zip code - there probably quite a few in and around LA, but for the cost of some stamps you could get lucky.
You have to remember - theives aren't that bright.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
You made a number of good points. This is our first experience of this type, though I know lots of other dealers that have suffered the same fate. Interestingly enough, we have learned that another dealer who shipped to the L.A. area the same day had the same thing happen to his package.
Our insurance agent has been in touch with an investigator at Fedex who is familiar with this type of theft and is investigating it. He knows what to look for and I personally believe that there's a decent possibility they'll figure out who did it. But, from others' experiences that I've heard of, there's much less chance that the coins, themselves will be recovered.
If you open up packages at random, you have a better chance of getting somebodys dentures as oppossed to handful of coins.
FedEx doesn't have any real interest in finding your coins, just finding the person on the payroll who's costing them insurance claims.
LA's a big place with lot's of coin shops, but the coins have to be somewhere there (if they did leave your town).
Good Luck
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Actually Fedex will have NO insurance claims against them - our claim will be filed through our private insurance carrier, as we do not insure through Fedex. Hopefully, Fedex will investigate this with vigor but I have heard from others who have had coins stolen, that ...well, that Fedex could/would do better if they cared more.
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
i think you did everything humanly possible for a possible recovery
and i hope in the near future that either some/all of the coins can be recovered and/or the person who did this caught and proscuted to the fullest extent of the law
sincerely michael
You are dead solid perfect with your comments. If the FedEx employee has a fence and/or collector willing to handle the transaction, then those coins come out of those holders immediately. They may well be in NGC's grading room right now.
Sorry to hear of the theft of the coins. I suspect with all the alerts being sent out the coins will surface and a complex trace will lead to arrest of the perpetrators. Of course they could remain sequestered for years but these are not the kind of coins that 30 years in the vault would satisfy the theives. Must be an inside job; either at the sending or receiving end. A coin dealer is an obvious target. Fed X must be very interested since their employees must be on the list of suspects. In addition to the sincere regrets over the loss, it raises questions for many of us. I have received hundreds of Fed X packages, with contents worth considerable amounts of money. They are hard to open and I have never opened one and checked the contents before signing off. If the insurance is null and void once the package is signed for, then I may need to rethink my practices.
In our case, we have private insurance that will reimburse us for all except our deductible (which, unfortunately is not tiny!), even though the empty package was signed for by the recipient. However, before signing for them, we inspect packages we receive, for evidence of tampering and have refused delivery of a few over the years. We feel that this practice might help the senders of the packages in question, in the event of an insurance dispute. Most other dealers we know do the same.