Fedex shipment stolen. Edited to include cert.#s

coinguy1

The following coins were stolen on route from Seattle/Tacoma WA. to Beverly Hills, CA. (package was shipped yesterday, Oct. 30 and arrived without the contents today Oct. 31) :

1936 T- l (Satin) Buffalo Nickel PCGS PR67 #60042376
1937 Buffalo Nickel PCGS PR67 #3502772
1937 Mercury Dime PCGS PR67 #9653292
1938 Mercury Dime PCGS PR67 #5259826
1939 Mercury Dime PCGS PR67 #5635453
1940 Mercury Dime PCGS PR67 #2033291
1941 Mercury Dime PCGS PR67 #1515596
1942 Mercury Dime PCGS PR67 #2472451
1937 Walking Liberty Half Dollar PCGS PR67 #6381184
1939 Walking Liberty Half Dollar PCGS PR67 #5565752
1940 Walking Liberty Half Dollar PCGS PR67 #3421362
1941 Walking Liberty Half Dollar PCGS PR67 #3611487
1942 Walking Liberty Half Dollar PCGS PR67 #9986117



Any help in putting the word out to other dealers, particularly in the areas that the package was shipped from and received at, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

airplanenut

Sorry to hear- were they insured?

LanLord

That sucks bigtime, do you want to post cert numbers ?

I hope you can get this rectified quickly.

CarlWohlforth

What a heck of a shipment to be stolen!!!

coinguy1

Thanks, guys. The coins were insured under our private insurance, but frankly, with the package having been signed for by the recipient who was unaware of the tampering/theft at the time it was received, I don't know what our insurance carrier will do about it. And, we also have a pretty hefty deductible. If and when I get the cert numbers I will post them.

michael

mark
sorry to hear about it
and hope it comes to a good end for pinnacle

and if i can be of any assistance please contaxct me and let me know

and i look forward to the certification numbers call coin world today befotre the deadline and get them to publish the coin cert numbers in their next issue!

sincerely and respectfully michael

Placid

They might show up on eBay.
So the thief opened the package took out the coins and resealed the package?

coinguy1

Placid - yes. Unfortunately, the practice is far more common than many people realize.

Pushkin

Really sorry to hear about that. Mark points out one of the big flaws in all insured shipping, and in Registered Mail - that the contents aren't always checked upon receipt. I've seen some shippers ship with special tape that would give an indication of tampering - and the brown tape required by registered mail provides some security that tampering hasn't ocurred. One almost thinks that sometimes the "strongbox" used by the old stage coach lines - at least in the old Western movies - might need a modern equivalent.

Hope it ends well and that the thief/thieves are caught.

psxchelly

Watch Teletrade.com.... stolen coins have turned up there on occasion, from what i have read on this message board.


chelle

coinguy1

psxchelly, thanks -I'll contact them too.

MadMarty

Mark,
That blows. I had a fed-ex problem a couple of years ago. I bought 2 Proof margans from Heritage. The shipped them Fed-ex (sig required). Well Fed-ex left it on the doorstep on a Fri (I was out of town), when I returned on Tues, No Package. Well fed-ex says they delivered the package (without sig). Heritage is self insured and said fed-ex shows the package delivered. I went back and forth for 6 months with Heritage. 6 months later when the snow melted the package ended up in the bushes with the 2 coins still in tact. If it had been stolen I would have been out $5000 worth of coins and Heritage would have been minus one customer. now everything goes USPS registered/insured.

dragon

Wow! Very sorry to hear that, I hope the individual(s) are caught and prosecuted and the coins returned to you. I never even knew that opening and resealing packages was a reality, especially with Fed-Ex.

Dragon

braddick

No rudeness intended, but is there any likelyhood the receiver of the package has the coins and is now placing his claim ("free" coins to him)?

coinguy1

Dragon, it is an all too common reality. I know a number of dealers who have had the same thing happen to them.

keithdagen

No rudeness intended, but is there any likelyhood the receiver of the package has the coins and is now placing his claim ("free" coins to him)?

Considering the kind of coins, it would be extremely hard for someone to keep them, since the certificate numbers were probably recorded somewhere, and they are pretty rare individually and in that kind of group.

braddick

Keith- I agree, but it is a bit unusual for the box to be tampered with and then returned to 'circulation'- delivery.
Also, the new owner of those stolen coins could easily break them out and even, over the course of a year or so, submit them to NGC. They might even get a grade bump up!
Again, not knowing who the recipient is, there is no intent on my part to cast dispersions.

coinguy1

Braddick - perfectly reasonable question. The recipient is another dealer we do a lot of business with. We have 100% confidence in his integrity.

Keith - we have the cert. numbers but in a lot of these cases the coins are simply cracked out and sold or submitted to the grading services. We have, of course, made a lot of phone calls and sent emails, etc. to numerous dealers, grading companies, Coin World, etc. But, ACG was not on our list. It does feel good to still be able to say things like that at a time like this!

Coin Finder

This happens. It actually is a scam. The contents are removed, fenced and are gone, all in the time the package is in transit. This buys time. The package in transit cannot be "suspect"because it looks like all the others. I have a documented case of a $25,000 necklace being stolen the same way by a carrier. It happened to one of the business people I service. Here is the kicker...( the company involved) never found the jewelry and no one with (the company) was ever caught. The business owner had to use their business insurance to make up the claim money. It would have put them out of business had they have to pay the claim themselves.

I hope yours turns out well.

Tbig

shylock

Sorry to hear about this Mark, and also surprised to hear this isn't that unusual. Sounds like these coins never even made it to your inventory so I assume no images exist (?) If they're cracked out that may be the only way for the rest of us to spot them -- hopefully PCGS or NGC will give you a call if they show up.

relayer

Bummer. I guess that eliminates FedEx as the substitute for the post office.

coinguy1

Paul, your assumption was correct - we have no images in this case and, despite the high grades, those coins are somewhat generic/by no means unique. We'll just hope that the thief gets caught and that we can get the coins back but, unfortunately. the odds are against it.

coindaughter

Registered mail is the way to go. I just sent a registered package today--they were very careful to make sure the paper tape was on properly and tamper-evident.

I'm very sorry for your loss, and hope that there will be recovery or at least recompense.

braddick

<< <i>Bummer. I guess that eliminates FedEx as the substitute for the post office. >>



Thanks for explaining that one Mark- if it was a trusted Dealer then that proves your case against FedEx.
With that now known, I'd still ship FedEx.
For every case like this one, and it is tragic and is a tremendous loss, there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of other packages that arrive safe and sound.
I hear of automobile accidents everyday, but I still drive my car.

Fairlaneman

The same thing happened here as with Mad Marty. Only difference was Fed Ex left the package across the street with the neighbor. Guess they thought all neighbors are on good terms. Since then if the shipper insists on shipping by Fed Ex they Lose the Sale.

Sorry to hear about the Loss and hope All works out fine.

Ken

gemtone65

Braddick: Your car analogy is not accurate in this case. Pinnacle had a viable option with much less risk -- USPS. Instead, they made a decision to use presumably less costly and perhaps more convenient Fedex. Maybe in the future Pinnacle will consider using USPS for their more expensive shipments.

I've heard many stories of losses like this with Fedex, but I am not aware of any such losses with USPS. I've been sending registered packages with USPS for 20 years without a single problem. And no, I don't work for USPS.

wondercoin

Mark: I am very sorry to hear of your loss and being somewhat local to BH, CA I will also be on high alert for you. Since you mentioned this is a pattern thieves are using these days, hoepfully the insurance carrier will give you little resistance.

Braddick: My understanding is that you need private insurance to even consider using Fed X if you want to send coins insured, as Fed X excludes coins as an insurable item to ship. I was very surprised to read that in their rules.

Wondercoin

RegistryCoin

Today, I had my first usps reg./insured pkg. ever to become even late. Hopefully it's not stolen. They said "wait a few days", but the twin package, sent at the same time, to the same place, arrived there yesterday, took 5 days. On the usps site, the first package ref. # shows it has arrived, but the late package ref # shows that it hasn't even left here yet. I had them assign a usps "case number" today, just in case. (It initiates a "search")

coinguy1

braddick - I agree with you about still using Fedex, though at times like this......

It's still much faster and more convenient for us and our clients. Though, as coindaughter correctly pointed out, it is not as safe as registered mail.

Thanks to all for your words of support.

Placid

Is it just a random open a package and look inside thing or was your package a target for some reason?
I mean was the package marked rare coins or something that would attract attention?
Actually your business name would probably draw attention.
I have never had any package sent to me lost or contents missing as a buyer of typical items by ups,fedex or usps.

coinguy1

Placid, it was apparently random, bad luck! Nothing out of the ordinary was written on the package or airbaill, to alert anyone to the items inside.

We shipped other Fedex packages the same day and all of them arrived safely. Additionally, the recipient received other Fedex packages (some containing more weight and/or value than ours) from other senders, without incident.

tradedollarnut

I once came home to find a $15,000 coin left on my front porch by FedEx!!!!!!

coinguy1

But TDN, was it inside or outside of the Fedex package?

ursabear

Mark,

I am sincerely sorry for your trouble and your loss. I will keep my eyes open throughout my internet travels for them. Those are not run-of-the-mill coins, so I'll try to be an additional set of eyes.

Best of luck to you!

wingedliberty

Mark:
I am very sorry to hear this. I really hate this kind of theft. Although I have never been a victim of
this type of crime, I know several dealers who have. Please inform everyone you can in the numismatic
community including Coin World and Numismatic News. We will all stay vigilant and hopefully these
scum will be caught.


Brian.

rkfish

Mark,

Very sorry to hear of the stolen package! If you can come up with pics or cert #'s be sure to post them here. A lot of great detectives here that continually amaze me!

Good luck!

DanC

You guys are spot-on with the registered mail solution.

Once upon a time (in another life) I worked for the Postal Service. One thing I can tell you for certain... with registered mail - it goes from your hand, to the clerks hand, to a safe, to a locked bag, to a secured location for sorting, to a locked bag, to a clerk who signs for it - and then individually verifies every item in the bag, to a safe, to your carrier who signs for it, and then to you.

Everyone who handles it signs for it, and the locks have a counter that tells how many times it's been opened - and that number is recorded too.

Folks may have, and may express many different opinions regarding the U.S. Postal Service, but when it comes to registered mail - nothing is more secure that I've ever seen. It's even more secure than evidence in criminal proceedings.

When you absolutely, positively, must get it there eventually - but VERY SECURELY... Registered Mail. No one, and nothing else even comes close.

Wisconsin

Mark,

Hope it all works out for you and these coins. You have to wonder if fedex employees do their homework and check out adresses of things such as this. They could easily watch for packages going to the largest coin and jewelry dealers in the country.

Not related at all, but I once had fedex lose a $12,ooo lamp shipped from Christies in New York. It turned up 3 monthe later. Fedex never put much effort into finding it, but Christies' insurance company did the investigation and found it un-opened in an off ice building in Colorado.

coinguy1

A thank you to the new posters to this thread and another thanks to the previous ones.

michael

ttt

oldcameoproofsguy

<< <i>When you absolutely, positively, must get it there eventually - but VERY SECURELY... Registered Mail. No one, and nothing else even comes close. >>


There was once a very small tear in one of the envelopes containing a shipment of coins sent by Registered Mail. The post office made me inspect the contents before I left. Everything was fine but it left me feeling secure that the post office would be so insistent that no theft had occured.

From now on I will probably inspect the contents of the package before I sign for it.

michael

you did everything possible to contact many to be on the lookout for these coins, mark........... hope it comes to a positive ending for you

sincerely michael

coinguy1

I have added the cert. #s to the original post and am taking this ttt

dbldie55

<< <i>You guys are spot-on with the registered mail solution.

Once upon a time (in another life) I worked for the Postal Service. One thing I can tell you for certain... with registered mail - it goes from your hand, to the clerks hand, to a safe, to a locked bag, to a secured location for sorting, to a locked bag, to a clerk who signs for it - and then individually verifies every item in the bag, to a safe, to your carrier who signs for it, and then to you.

Everyone who handles it signs for it, and the locks have a counter that tells how many times it's been opened - and that number is recorded too.

Folks may have, and may express many different opinions regarding the U.S. Postal Service, but when it comes to registered mail - nothing is more secure that I've ever seen. It's even more secure than evidence in criminal proceedings.

When you absolutely, positively, must get it there eventually - but VERY SECURELY... Registered Mail. No one, and nothing else even comes close. >>



We have had registered mail stolen too (by a postal employee). The post office even told us, but still made us wait 30 days to file a claim. Was the merchandise ever found - no, was anyone arrested - no. Is the USPS safe - no.

BigE

Coinguy, was that the Walker you got from me?--------BigE

coinguy1

BigE - no, your Walker was not included in that shipment. We had sold yours for a small loss a couple of weeks ago.

BigE

OK, that makes my day--------BigE (edited to say that I am glad she is not lost somewhere)

Gilbert

Sorry to hear this. Hopefully, it is resolved appropriately (located, recovered, appropriate action taken, and return of merchandise), but it doesn't sound too optimistic.

"Unfortunately, the practice is far more common than many people realize. "


"it is an all too common reality. I know a number of dealers who have had the same thing happen to them."

Seems like somebody should be doing something about it. How come the numerous businesses that rely on Fedex don't do something instead of viewing it as the cost of doing business? Surely, you guys can make an impact. Yeah, a package a year (whatever you have happen statistically) can be overlooked, but when you multiply these incidents out by the numerous businesses that I alone see shipping Fedex, it seems significant. I can only imagine how much could be had by selectively removing one single package from each business, who is simply going to write it off as the cost of doing business.


Dan C,

I agree USPS registered is probably the most secure, but this statement "One thing I can tell you for certain... with registered mail - it goes from your hand, to the clerks hand, to a safe, to a locked bag, to a secured location for sorting, to a locked bag, to a clerk who signs for it - and then individually verifies every item in the bag, to a safe, to your carrier who signs for it, and then to you."
is not entriely true. You may consider it insignificant, but, when you have had property "misappropriated" at the USPS without someone being disciplined (to my knowledge anyway), such little breaks in the "chain of custody" loom large. What am I talking about? Well, in my case, the mail goes from my hand to the clerks hand, who - most times - just puts it on the counter behind him, and that is where it lays when I depart and the next customer is waited on. There is a perfect opportunity for just about anything to happen to that package. Yes, the USPS is a secure facility, but most "losses" occur while in USPS control.

DanC

Gilbert -

If you are referring to registered mail - then that clerk is committing an act WAY outside policy, and the postmaster should be notified.

I guess in retrospect, it wasn't meant to be a blanket endorsement of USPS, just a comparison of the security when procedures are followed.

I do stand corrected. USPS is only as good as the honesty (or lack thereof) of the employee. Simply from the perspective of the custody procedures - theirs (appears) to be as tight as anything I've ever seen. Your mileage may vary.

tompkins

Mark,
Out of curiosity, does your packaging and addressing do anything to arouse curiosity? For example, was the addressee something like "XYZ Rare coins"? Or do you include your name, "Pinnacle Rarities" on the return address? Sometimes you don't have much choice on the addressee (though you can frequently address to a person, without the company name). And you have total control over your return address (call yourself P.R.; or just put the postal address with no name).

I've noticed a lot of coins I purchase come with very non-descript return addresses, frequently initials and an address, or just an address. Having read your rather tragic story, it makes a lot of sense to not "tip your hand" as to what is inside the box. I guess, if you're a crook and there are two FedEx boxes side by side; one with a return address to Amazon.com and the other one with a return address to XYZ Rare coins, Inc., which one would be more likely to get stolen?

I wish you well in the recovery of your coins, and hopefully, we'll all be on the lookout for them.

Pete

JLW

<< <i>We have had registered mail stolen too (by a postal employee). The post office even told us, but still made us wait 30 days to file a claim. Was the merchandise ever found - no, was anyone arrested - no. Is the USPS safe - no. >>


Is any service or agency involving the human element 100% safe and infallible?-no
Cops have locks on their lockers for a reason people!
Mark-hopefully these coins will end up in the hands of some idiot eBay scammer too dumb to crack them out, then he's toast. This is already a Federal crime, (theft of interstate commerce), and anyone trying to sell them will be compounding the felony.
Joe