CU Price Guide?

DHeath

I'm glad CU posts a price guide, as I find it a useful tool for comparitive analysis, but I believe it is more frequently misused by sellers, and particularly those that sell to the uninformed and uninitiated. Airplanenut's thread made me ponder the effects of the CU price guide on the market. Many sellers quote prices listed in the price guide as though it had been cannonized, particularly sellers of coins holdered by other grading services. Most neophytes to the slabbed market have heard PCGS coins command a premium (right or wrong). I don't think many of them are necessarily aware of the other resources available online to compare prices realized. Many times the market is far different than the prices listed (higher and lower). PCGS dealers don't adhere to the pricing. I'll say this as a customer, and not a critic: I'd love to see this tool improved.

This coin is listed in the CU price guide at $175, and listed with a buy-it-now of $105

Russ

ACG, NTC, and ICG dealers LOVE the CU price guide. Offer a grossly overgraded $10 crap modern and point to the price guide to fool the unsuspecting. It's a valuable tool for the unscrupulous.

Russ, NCNE

kieferscoins

People use it as a price guide! I set up at a local show a year ago and a guy came up with a price guide with Morgans from the CU site. He looked at a few coins and compared prices, then asked why mine were cheaper (they were PCGS certified MS-64). I told him that that was a guide and not the bible. He looked at me funny, and eventually came back later. Never did buy one coin, since he thought something must be wrong with the coins.

Cameron Kiefer

paigowjohnny

I try to use a combination of guides...the PCGS guide as well as the current CoinWorld Trends...as a starting point for what I'll pay. Sure...I print them out, and I'm one of those guys who'll refer to them while I'm walking around a shop or show...but once again I see it as a point of reference and not a "lock in stone" determinant.

EVillageProwler

I will not use any price guides -- those that are actually denoted as being PRICE GUIDE -- put out by anyone with a conflict of interest.

In other words, I will not use CU Price Guide nor the Heritage Value Index. Both of those entities also sell coins.

What I will use is Greysheet, CW Trends, dealer FPLs and auction PRLs.

EVP

crito

the linked auction says "Fresh from PCGS!". So why doesn't it have the bar code on the front of the label? Could it have been graded during the "liberal on moderns" phase, when all those PR70's were "made"? Well, I looked up the cert numbers around this one (on same submission form, it's safe to assume) and 70000288-70000295 are ALL MS68 72-S Silver Ikes! No offense, by it'd rather buy the ICG or NTC MS68 for a fraction of the price. they'd all probably come back PCGS 67 if I sent them in today just because a dealer sells PCGS slabs doesn't automatically mean he isn't trying to overcharge you for the COIN... and conversely, just because a dealer sells ICG slabs doesn't means he isn't giving you a fair price for the COIN. If you just want a piece of plastic with a high grade on it, might as well buy ACG

price guides are a dime a dozen these days, here's the latest I've found (there's a link to fastcoin, top right... why does that name sound familar) http://www.ecoinprices.com/ All I use are past auction results on eBay, since that's where I do the most selling.

DCAMFranklin

Nice thread. You bet those numbers on CU are inflated. It is a lot like the Mfg's Suggested Retail Price quoted on "The Price Is Right" or the sticker price on a new car. Even the greenest of neophytes know those pricing methods have NOTHING to do with what they will actually pay for the item or car, right?? I submit the same is true for the neophytes buying coins. Don't patronize them. They know that price is too high and that they will pay something less than that price. They're just not sure how large a discount to factor into the pricing equation.

As for the PCGS dealers adhering to those prices on CU, let me say this. The more restricted the supply and the lower the Population numbers for a particular coin, the more likely the dealer will stay pretty close to that CU number. The reason I mention restricted supply would be to address situations like the 1941-S Walking Liberty. The '41-S is a part of the "Short Set" for the Walking Liberty. It is the "giant" in the set with a Population in MS-65 of1,174 and a CU price of $1,200. Compare that to the least rare member of the Short Set, the 1946-D, with a PCGS Population of 6,518 and a CU price of $100. There is a huge number of collectors involved with the Walking Liberty Short Set and it keeps supply very limited. If you step outside the Short Set, you can find the 1939-S with a PCGS MS-65 Population of only 1,085 (LESS than the '41-S) yet selling with a CU price of $190! That is one-sixth the price of the '41-S with a LOWER Population! Why a neophyte might ask? The number of collectors able to afford the entire Walker set is very low compared to the number of collectors that choose to collect the Short Set only. Supply vs. demand!

DHeath, I absolutely agree that the CU price guide needs to improved. Unlike you, I am a customer AND a critic. The CU price guide is extremely inflated and is used with the intent to extract additional cash from the collector's pocket! Personally, I would like to see the CU price guide be the method of calculating the buyback for a PCGS downgrade. Think about that!!! Then PCGS would have a VESTED interest in keeping the CU price guide current, accurate and legitimate.

P.S. - It will NEVER happen!

airplanenut

Alright! I've been quoted (sorta!)

Just remember, that coin is sold by the maker of the CU guide...

When I went to a show where they used it, I was happy- trying to sell a coin and I was going to get a mere fortune based on the fact that the dealer was using the CU guide... too bad he didn't have a use for my modern

BNE

PCGS bears a lot of blame for not updating the guide and keeping it accurate. (They should just take it down, if they have no commitment to keeping it current and realistic.) But I think the dealers may be to blame, too. My understanding of how this is supposed to work is that dealers REPORT transactions to PCGS which, subject to verification, are later reflected in the guide. If dealers aren't giving PCGS the data, PCGS doesn't have anything to work with. Of course, if PGCS cared, it would nudge the delaers a bit, and remind them that their help is needed. I guess we could report what we pay for coins, too, but that's so EMBARRASING!

DHeath

BNE,

I would contribute. There should be additional descriptors including toned, PQ, etc.

Whitewashqtr

On common dates, I try to use a base of 50% of the CU price guide. For harder to find and key dates, I would go up to 60% or higher, depending on the coin. I think once I paid a little higher than the CU price.

airplanenut

Well, for one thing... if David Hall gets a new coin in... you can be sure the price will go up

wondercoin

I just wrote D. Hall pointing out a couple of glaring errors in the guide. I'll let you know if they get changed.

As many know, there are prices in the guide that I would pay 2x, 3x, 4x or more to buy. Don't think for a moment that the problem lies with simply overpricing certain coins.

Wondercoin

DCAMFranklin

And in steps the PCGS cheerleader. Rah, rah, rah!! Come on. What number of coins? 5 out of 20,000? You are providing more cleche answers than the professional ball players.

Whitewashqtr

NO.. Wondercoin is the fairest cheerleader PCGS has. He even bashed them once in awhile, but not often. I wouldnt want to bump up prices in the guide (that not too many people use anyway) unless I owned that coin.