So according to that article, Bowers graded that piece as a choice AU in the Garrett Sale, and now NGC has it in a PR65 holder.......was Bowers over 7 points off on that coin?
off-topic, but isn't it rather absurd to certify such a coin?
yes and no. i think it's silly to grade it, especially considering that bowers and ruddy graded it ChAU earlier... but, i think it's important to certify it as genuine and problem-free, and to protect it from the elements...
<< <i>So according to that article, Bowers graded that piece as a choice AU in the Garrett Sale, and now NGC has it in a PR65 holder.......was Bowers over 7 points off on that coin? >>
that's been a ploy of bower's auctions for eons. helps the floor bidders else everything would go to the 'book'.
<< <i>off-topic, but isn't it rather absurd to certify such a coin?
yes and no. i think it's silly to grade it, especially considering that bowers and ruddy graded it ChAU earlier... but, i think it's important to certify it as genuine and problem-free, and to protect it from the elements... >>
yep, they should certify it as "genuine" & nothing more.
which leads me into...
<< <i><< So according to that article, Bowers graded that piece as a choice AU in the Garrett Sale, and now NGC has it in a PR65 holder.......was Bowers over 7 points off on that coin? >> that's been a ploy of bower's auctions for eons. helps the floor bidders else everything would go to the 'book'. >>
you got it, makes them look conservative. again the grade on a unique, or nearly so, coin is absurd, ridiculous & not even worth worrying about. if the copper disme graded ag+, it would not be worth a penny less than in au-55 or ms-65. it's a freaking unique specimen!!!
Here is a post from Homerunhall from the 11-26-02 QA session....basically one mans AU is another mans BU. What do you think??
"The answer to the "high point friction" issue is a relative one. Before I tackle it, I would like to tell a few stories, if that's OK...
In the early 1970s...long before third party grading, many major dealers used to describe coins as "BU Rub"...BU meant "Brilliant Uncirculated" and the "Rub" part was "cabinet friction" or wear, depending upon your point of view. Some of us thought this was kind of deceptive, especially since most of the coins sold as "BU Rub" were what we now call AU55.
On the other extreme, there was a dealer in the 1970s, who was active on the show circuit and was the strictest grader of all-time. He once told me that "All Saints have rub and a truly mint state $20 Saint does not exist." He used to describe really Gemmy Saints as "AU+++++++++." And he carried this friction obssesion to include all coins.
Finally...really digressing...in the late 1960s, a few mail order dealers tried to promote a new grade between AU and UNC. They called it "LU", for "Looks Unc." It didn't catch on.
Back to the future...High point friction is a relative matter...and sorry, but once again it's very subjective. In general, coins with the slightest touch of friction can be graded mint state...if they look mint state in all respects. An example would be a pre-civil War Liberty gold coin, which I see with a bare trace of friction often called MS62. I think that this is all OK, as long as the market understands the standard and PCGS applies it consistently.
Great question! "
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
I'm just enjoying the reading. Good stuff. I am also curious about the answer to Zerbie's questions. Without an answer to the questions, and now no prices on their website, I would really be reluctant to do any business with them.
Wow, I just found and read this thread as a link from another another thread., which I found searching old threads on a completely unrelated topic. Now I see the last two posts from this 1.5 year old thread were from yesterday.
Weird.
I just saw the other thread was responded to yesterday. Extra weird.
not only does barf-mark ventures not seem to own their own coins, they're employees don't work for them either. the girl with the headset also shows up in ads in the back of my computer shopper, for example, april 2004 issue page 174.
Comments
dragon
yes and no. i think it's silly to grade it, especially considering that bowers and ruddy graded it ChAU earlier... but, i think it's important to certify it as genuine and problem-free, and to protect it from the elements...
evp
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
grading has changed much since 1981... some call it grade-flation, others call it a learning curve!
i call it annoying!
evp
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
He's really slipping in his old age.
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>So according to that article, Bowers graded that piece as a choice AU in the Garrett Sale, and now NGC has it in a PR65 holder.......was Bowers over 7 points off on that coin? >>
that's been a ploy of bower's auctions for eons. helps the floor bidders else everything would go to the 'book'.
<< <i>off-topic, but isn't it rather absurd to certify such a coin?
yes and no. i think it's silly to grade it, especially considering that bowers and ruddy graded it ChAU earlier... but, i think it's important to certify it as genuine and problem-free, and to protect it from the elements... >>
yep, they should certify it as "genuine" & nothing more.
which leads me into...
<< <i><< So according to that article, Bowers graded that piece as a choice AU in the Garrett Sale, and now NGC has it in a PR65 holder.......was Bowers over 7 points off on that coin? >> that's been a ploy of bower's auctions for eons. helps the floor bidders else everything would go to the 'book'. >>
you got it, makes them look conservative. again the grade on a unique, or nearly so, coin is absurd, ridiculous & not even worth worrying about. if the copper disme graded ag+, it would not be worth a penny less than in au-55 or ms-65. it's a freaking unique specimen!!!
K S
"The answer to the "high point friction" issue is a relative one. Before I tackle it, I would like to tell a few stories, if that's OK...
In the early 1970s...long before third party grading, many major dealers used to describe coins as "BU Rub"...BU meant "Brilliant Uncirculated" and the "Rub" part was "cabinet friction" or wear, depending upon your point of view. Some of us thought this was kind of deceptive, especially since most of the coins sold as "BU Rub" were what we now call AU55.
On the other extreme, there was a dealer in the 1970s, who was active on the show circuit and was the strictest grader of all-time. He once told me that "All Saints have rub and a truly mint state $20 Saint does not exist." He used to describe really Gemmy Saints as "AU+++++++++." And he carried this friction obssesion to include all coins.
Finally...really digressing...in the late 1960s, a few mail order dealers tried to promote a new grade between AU and UNC. They called it "LU", for "Looks Unc." It didn't catch on.
Back to the future...High point friction is a relative matter...and sorry, but once again it's very subjective. In general, coins with the slightest touch of friction can be graded mint state...if they look mint state in all respects. An example would be a pre-civil War Liberty gold coin, which I see with a bare trace of friction often called MS62. I think that this is all OK, as long as the market understands the standard and PCGS applies it consistently.
Great question! "
This was buried on page 8 of the forum, maybe that's why Mr. Cabral has not replied? He could not find the original thread? My wishful thinking?
<< <i>maybe that's why Mr. Cabral has not replied? He could not find the original thread? >>
Uh, er, yeah! That's it!
Russ, NCNE
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Man, did you know there's some really good reading in the archives here? They keep almost EVERYTHING..
*cough* .. I'm gettin sick.. and tired..
So anybody have any nice early dimes for sale? I'm lookin to spend!
I am a low end coin buyer, but have bookmarked it, just in case.
Good luck,
Tyler
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>In the news.
Russ, NCNE >>
Wow, I just found and read this thread as a link from another another thread., which I found searching old threads on a completely unrelated topic.
Now I see the last two posts from this 1.5 year old thread were from yesterday.
Weird.
I just saw the other thread was responded to yesterday. Extra weird.
not only does barf-mark ventures not seem to own their own coins, they're employees don't work for them either. the girl with the headset also shows up in ads in the back of my computer shopper, for example, april 2004 issue page 174.
K S
That's a standard icon provided by the developer of the chat software.
Russ, NCNE
1858 SILVER 3CS PR68 NGC $68,750.00
1866 SILVER 3CS PR68 NGC $21,875.00
clicked on half-dimes, dimes came up. i was gonna click on "Risk Disclosure" but i'm afraid B-S will come up.
K S
K S