Chop marks on trade dollar

mids1999

Do the chop marks on a trade dollar take away from its grade?

Sorry I havent been around lately. My father just had a heart attack on sunday and
I have been at the hospital with him most of the week.
He is going for a tripple bypass in 6hrs.

Mike

goyankeez

I found this on TradeDollarNut's website (tradedollarnut.com):

Chop Marks

He may be able to answer your question.

Sorry to hear about your father. Hope all is well.

Rotts

Thanks this is really interesting.Thanks for the post. Rotts

tradedollarnut

Just like a proof coin is considered different from a mint state coin, to chopmark collectors a chopped coin is considered differently. To the unitiated, they might think "yuck, this thing's damaged and not worth anything". To the serious collector, a chopmark might not detract much value at all!

For instance - I would gladly pay full MS60 bid for certain uncirculated trade dollars with chopmarks.

Here's a chopmark coin I paid MS60 bid (see attachment)

shirohniichan

And sometimes a rare chop can add value to a common trade dollar!

DDR

And there are some Trade dollars that are much rarer chopmarked than without. But --and here's the good part-- they are still priced less.

mids1999

Here are pics of the coin in question.
Sorry It took me so long to upload them.
Can someone please give me some info on these marks as well as how you think the coin would grade.
Thanks
Mike

Full Front
Chopmark Front
Full Back
Chopmark Back

lordmarcovan

That almost looks more like an attempted hole to me than a chopmark. But the shape of the marks on the obverse are interesting. Some sort of toolmarks, perhaps?

shirohniichan

I can't tell if that's a chop or just a gouge. The reverse looks like it has been holed and plugged. An Asian merchant would not certify a plugged coin, so it's most likely just damage inflicted here in the good ol' US of A.

A chop is a mark certifying a coin's proper bullion content. Many think that gouges punched onto a coin are chops, but lots are just damage. Asian chops are usually Chinese characters or geometric patterns. I have some coins that looked like they were whacked with the back of an old nail, but I don't think they are of Asian origin.

DDR

It's true that Asian chops are usually characters or geometric patterns, but some Asian merchants did gouge coins to make sure that they were silver throughout, not just silver plated.

shirohniichan

That's true, but American merchants and others also scratched or gouged coins to see if they were plated fakes, so there's no way of knowing if it's Asian. These are called "test marks" and are different from chops.

This is what a chop looks like.

BillJones

Just about everybody agrees that if a Trade Dollar has a large number of chop marks on it, its value is considerably diminished. I have one that is just covered with chop marks that I bought for $20 years ago. The books tell you that if there are only one or two chop marks, the value of the coin is not diminished. From a practical standpoint the value is diminished if the coin is otherwise in choice Mint State.

The point may have been above in an earlier post where tradedollarnut stated that he would pay full MS-60 bid for Uncirculated Trade Dollars with chop marks, but implies that he would not pay any more than that. I once saw a PCGS certified MS-63 which had a chop mark on the obverse that was positioned in such a way that you could have easily missed it. Still, once potential buyers knew that it was there, the coin was a very hard sell at MS-63 money despite the fact that aside from the chop mark it would have been a really choice, high end MS-63.

I think the lesson from this is that on a choice Mint State coin, a chop mark does not lower the technical grade, but it makes things tougher from the salability angle, which is what you might call a “commercial downgrade.” On circulated Trade Dollars, I think a few chop marks are neat, and I would not shy away for buying one, especially since these coins sell for less than $100.

tradedollarnut

Bill - good points, but let me expound a little. Certainly a chopmark is going to prevent a coin from bringing gem money if it otherwise is a gem. But it still could bring MS63 money, depending upon the look of the coin. If I was offered a superb, stunning trade dollar that had one or two well placed chops I wouldn't hesitate to pay MS62 or 63 money for the coin, especially if a rarer date with chopmarks.

I have an 1874-CC that is a stunning gem coin, perhaps one of the top five coins in existance for that date, except it has a single chopmark obverse and reverse. I paid MS62 money without even quibbling.

I believe the coin you are referring to above is an 1874-S that was sold in a B&M sale a few years back. It was listed as choice MS63 and I asked to preview the coin. Hidden in the wheat ears was a really light chop and I told them about it and they withdrew the coin until a later sale where they mentioned the chop. I later saw it in an ANACS MS63 holder with no mention of the chop. Must have gotten it crossed!