<< <i>After you chemically alter the surface and list your new shinny AH on eBay >>
Since I don't sell my Accented Hairs, the above would qualify as a pretty stupid statement.
<< <i>do you think you should be negged for making $2.12 profit on your exessive postage charge >>
You're not the sharpest math pencil in the box, are you?
Too many people these days seem ready and willing to accept crappy service as a way of life. Some even seem to feel that crappy service should be rewarded. That's a sad commentary on the state of things.
S/H charges are listed in the ad. If you don't agree with it, don't bid.
With some people, if they found a bar of gold on the street they'd complain because it didn't have a handle on it.
If you think your $10 coins should be delivered by Brinks in a mink lined envelope then lots of luck to you.
Russ-
Didn't somebody once say "Retalitory feedback is childish"? There are 4 feedback options - Praise, Netural, Complaint - and NONE. If you didn't want to click on "Praise" why bother to leave feedback at all? Or were you doing a public service by warning others of this fraudulant attrocity?
Python, The reason for the extra 12 cents charge is that the Post Office will sort it by hand, as opposed to using the sorting machine. At least, that's what our local postmaster told me when I asked him about it. Of course, if after you pay the extra 12 cents it gets shredded to pieces by the sorting machine that was not supposed to be used, you'll get a big OOPS from the Post Office.
whether or not $2 is cheap is not the issue. if the seller charges postage and it's 1¢ more than the actual cost - the seller's at fault. if the seller charges postage and handling then he can charge whatever he wants as long as it's clearly listed in the auction.
no one cares if the seller makes money or not. you don't have the inherent right to profit. if ebay margins are so thin and you're giving away merchandise so cheaply, then why are you selling there?
i've had sellers list postage as $5.15 - suggesting it will be shipped priority with insurance - and then it arrives in an uninsured bubble mailer with 2 stamps on it.
<< <i>i've had sellers list postage as $5.15 - suggesting it will be shipped priority with insurance - and then it arrives in an uninsured bubble mailer with 2 stamps on it. >>
I've run across listings like this and if I am genuinely interested I will fire an email and politely ask the seller exactly how they are going to ship.
I don't care if it's a 1.00 coin or a 10,000 coin. I expect it to be packaged properly to prevent/deter theft and loss from human or machine. VERY TRUE why should my item be at jepordy because some lazy tight a$$ cant do things right? or have the common sence to try and do things right i package everything as if it where glass,i dont need things comming back because the post office machined it,or the envolope was so cheesy and it has been used a few times the coin falls out, these things just create grief for the seller,protect your a$$ as the seller and do things properly or have a terrible feedback and no one will pay what the item is worth or they wont bid at all thinking your a slob and a cheat>>>>>>>>>>>>>simple rules it takes no more time to do things right if you have the right things on hand,and you should if your going to sell coins to anyone!
TRADERBOBZBLOG An open mind will support transformation. Recognize life is full of change and celebrate the opportunity. "There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
The auction description provided the $2 charge for shipping and said Postal Insurance was optional for an additional $1.10. Obviously, Russ chose not to insure the package. That in its self implies the buyer is not too concerned about the safety of the coin while in transit. I'm not criticizing, as I probably wouldn't have insured the package, though I always insure all Certified coins. Anyone who thinks a seller's charge of $2.00 is too high, should NOT bid!
The seller wrapped the coin with padded protection and then put in the #10 envelope. That padded protection is what caused the envelope to be considered too thick and was responsible for the additional 12c charge. That's a good thing! Personally, I wrap all coins in bubblewrap, then in a copy of the auction page and then place them in a bubblewrap envelope and I would have found that preferable. However, I have received raw coins in #10 envelopes a number of times.
The auction ended on the 10th and the seller mailed the package on the 16th. Regardless of when when Russ made payment for the coin, that is certainly acceptable. The seller took the coin to the Post Office, had them weigh the coin and CONTRARY to Russ' thread the postal clerk applied a postage label (a stamp was not used for postage). If a mistake was made regarding the additional 12c charge, it was the postal clerk's fault, not that of the seller!
I have never been able to mail coins at the Post Office in less than 30 minutes and I am there 3 or 4 days every week. It takes me 20 minutes to drive there and back. The seller is certainly due compensation for that time. Any Member that disagrees does not value their own time and probably has little else to do with their time. Busy professionals understand the value of one's time and will never argue that point.
The mistake, regarding postage, was made by the postal clerk. The package arrived safely and in a timely manner. The coin was as pictured. It was not damaged. The seller was treated poorly and did not deserve anything other than a Postive Feedback with perhaps an e-mail saying the buyer expected better packaging for the $2.00 charge.
Is anyone absolutely sure the post office stamped that envelope? Anyone can buy a postage meter, we have one here at work. I could slap $0.37 postage on a refrigerator if I wanted to.
Well I guess it's just a matter of perspective and attitude about life.
What seems noble and righteous to some will seem petty and immature to others.
What did the seller do that was wrong? Should she have argued with the postal clerk that more postage should have been put on the envelope?
I guess if you emailed the seller first and tried to educate her about high speed sorting machines and explained that a regular envelope will cause the machines to jam if the letter is too thick, that would have been useful.
But I guess it was more satisfying to you to degrade her. Oh well. Like I said, it’s a matter of perspective and attitude.
You are right a lot of time Russ, but you sure missed the boat on this one.
Well, it looks like the seller was sloppy, but maybe not deserving of too harsh a censure. $2.00 for 37 cents shipping is not always objectionable to me (after all, a seller has eBay fees and other overhead- I don't object to a small "handling" fee.) I do object to sloppy packaging, though. That seller left you positive feedback and it might have been an honest mistake. I guess 1907Quarter's suggestion about a critical but gentle positive feedback might have been the best way to go. But the feedback forum is there for a reason- YOUR opinion on how the transaction went. A neutral is not out of the question, either. I do think a neg for such a trifling issue would be a bit harsh.
I don't think this seller is a bad apple. I see she posted a reply to your comment. Perhaps you should offer a followup to praise her for her efforts to make good on the problem (if she has in fact made such efforts?)
The attitude displayed by some in this thread is precisely why the eBay feedback system is pretty useless. I wonder how many thousands of positives are posted every month for crappy service? I wonder how many thousands of "no comments" occur every month, even when the offense is far worse?
If any of you ever get lousy service, or ripped off by a seller with no indication of a problem in their feedback profile and wonder what happened, just keep in mind that your bed is of your own making. You may choose to accept inferior service when transacting business, I will not. Never have, never will.
<< <i>Perhaps you should offer a followup to praise her for her efforts to make good on the problem >>
LM,
Actually, I'm waiting on a response back from my eMail that will determine whether or not I do that. It's a "he" BTW, probably the wife's sticker.
the feedback system is worthless. i can always tell when i'm gonna get screwed because the seller doesn't post feedback until after i do. i know it's just gonna be a mexican standoff with him holding a retalitory over my head unless i just accept the pile of manure he just sent me.
Baccaruda- Well, it is certainly easy to understand the lack of value you place upon your principles. If you are weak enough to allow a seller to hold a potential retaliatory Negative Feedback over your head and succumb to accepting an inferior coin and providing Positive Feedback, then I am going to find it impossible to accept your criticism of the Ebay Feedback system.
That does NOT imply that a buyer should immediately whack a seller with a Negative Feedback upon receiving a coin that did not meet a buyer's expectation. Send an e-mail inquiring about the coin. I have cleaned up more "messy" situations by simply sending an e-mail beginning with the following, "It appears some kind of miscommunication has occured. I was the winner of auction #xxxxxxx and I was to receive a (coin's description). And I have received yyyyyyyy. Please let me hear from you."
However, if a seller simply won't work with you to find an equitable compromise, then no one on Ebay should shrink from the responsibility of warning others by providing honest, pointed Negative/Neutral Feedback.
Personally, I always submit Feedback prior to shipping the coins I sell. I always submit Feedback immediately upon receiving a coin I purchase or after we work out a compromise after a "messy" situation.
Seems Goose3 wants to further this discussion with COMPLETELY different set of circumstances in an effort to make his point. I hope those who disagree with Goose3, Russ and Baccaruda will post their opinions on this thread:
I think it's too bad that a neutral is perceived to be bad- neutral should be just that- neutral. Average, or "OK", in other words. A positive should be reserved for the sellers that really exceed expectations and neutrals for those that meet expectations.
As to #10 envelopes, I use them to ship most raw coins (not including bulk lots), but the coins are in flips and stapled into some heavy card stock (which is folded over several times), so nothing shifts around in the envelope. It seems to work well- I ship coins all over the world this way. Slabbed coins and bulk lots I send in the padded mailers.
Baccaruda- I don't agree with you that the system is totally worthless, but I do share your pet peeve about sellers that withold feedback. I think the seller should leave feedback upon receipt of payment, and the buyer should leave it upon receipt of the product. However, having read some of the really frivolous negatives that some sellers have been left by inexperienced or stupid bidders, I can certainly understand if some of them wish to wait until the bidder leaves feedback.
Ebay's feedback forum is flawed, perhaps, but certainly better than nothing. How often do you find yourself wishing that brick-and-mortar businesses listed in the telephone book had feedback from all their customers out there for all to see? I do. I'll bet service would be a lot better.
please reread your post. do you really believe that a seller who meets your expectations only deserves a neutral? how often are your expectations exceeded by ebay transactions? more often than not?
when this doesn't happen do you give out more neutrals (expectations met) or negatives (whatever the criteria would be)?
Zenny- You are so right when you say, "golly, here's another buyer to watch out for." Somehow Russ seems to think that his Neutral will warn other buyers.
Is there anyone here that believes someone will refuse to bid on "Nancy's" auctions due to Russ' Neutral Feedback????? Anyone? Of course not!
What it will say to other sellers is, "Whew, I hope that buyer never bids on my auctions!"
Russ says, "The attitude displayed by some in this thread is precisely why the Ebay feedback system is pretty useless." In fact, it warned all of Ebay that some buyer chose to submit Neutral Feedback prior to contacting the seller. The seller then offered to refund that GREAT BIG OL' 12 CENTS!
Zenny and DCAM- I was saying that that is the way I think it should be, not the way I think it IS.
Of course I don't give neutrals (except for one time when a product was lost in the mail and the seller was unhelpful/unclear about whether it had been insured or not- I have only given one neutral and four negs in 700+ transactions). Perhaps YOU should reread my post. I realize that neutrals are stigmatized, even though I don't think they should be.
LM- Seems we had some miscommunication. I wasn't implying anything about buyers' hoping you don't bid on their auctions. I was saying that a seller would feel that way about Compucheap upon reading that Neutral Feedback.
Gee, just the other night you were inviting me to bid on your '56 PR-67 DCAM Franklin?! Not in such a subtle manner, either. Happily, I found a PR-68 DCAM instead.
The hinting about the DCAM Franklin was probably followed by a ( ). I just lost almost a hundred bucks on the thing but I probably paid too much to begin with. It was a nice coin but looked bad in my pics. I had no idea there were so many 68 and 69 DCAM's out there until I looked at some of the proof Franklin Reg sets!
I first of all think there is just cause for being upset about the shipping of this coin. However I also feel you only give Negative or nuetral feedback as A LAST RESORT. Ebay rules clearly states that you should contact each other to try and solve any differences you may have prior to leaving feedback. In a case such as this where the coin was received in a timely manner and in good condition, I would first contact the seller informing them of my dissatisfaction of there shipping methods. If they then had no postive response I personally would have given NO feedback. I then would make it a point to NEVER buy from them again. If the seller however attempted to make it "right" in some way a positive would be in order. Just my opinion on this matter. AL
This thread was humorous 70 posts ago, now it's hilarious. And people wonder why nothing gets done in Congress. (Where the issues are a tad more important than this!) Joe
You guys should lighten up on Russ a little- maybe his neutral was too harsh in that case, but it was his prerogative to leave his impressions of the transaction as he saw fit, and he had a right to be a little miffed over the seller's sloppiness. It's not about the twelve cents, it's about the principle.
A fourth tier of feedback is an interesting idea. Maybe better yet would be a letter grade: A, B, C, D, or F. But then people would whine about getting B's and C's, and that would be stigmatized like the Neutral feedback is now.
I stand by my previous comments about the way it SHOULD be: a neutral should be for a transaction that meets expectations: good but not necessarily great. A positive should be for the exceptional ones.
Or, to use a twist on Bear's example, maybe a bronze star for OK, a silver star for good, and a gold star for terrific. (With a little "turkey" icon for a loser, heheh.)
Yes, the eBay feedback system is horrendous and needs to be fixed. I'd personally favor a system whereby both parties MUST leave feedback within 90 days of auction end, and both parties must input their feedback before either one is revealed. If no feedback is left after 90 days, the feedback that was left (if any) gets posted and the other person gets no opportunity to leave anything.
I normally have quite high respect for Russ, but in this case he just simply missed the boat. If anyone deserves negative feedback, it's the Post Office. The seller hand delivered, they figured postage, and accepted postage. Any other business out there, if they're short, they eat the difference. Not the Post Office! Well, I think they should have eaten the stupid friggin twelve cents!
The seller wasn't really sloppy, the shipping method was appropriate. The two dollars Russ paid went toward *the actual shipping charge (which was miscalculated by the PO), *the mailer *the bubble wrap *gas and time to get to the Post Office. *the flip. All these things can and do add up and I think the two bucks was justified. More than that might have been a bit much. I agree the seller could have used a saflip or something other than vinyl, but sh!t happens right? Was the coin damaged in shipping?
Russ, you keep saying 'it's not the twelve cents, it's the principle'. I think you are angry at the principle of the PO charging you for their error, you're not mad because of 'shoddy shipping'. This wasn't a super expensive coin, and the seller could have done a lot worse in the shipping dept. If you haven't done so already, I'd encourage you to post a follow up on the neutral explaining the seller did offer to refund your .12¢. You complain about poor service, but the seller offered to refund your .12¢, for which it wasn't even their fault! I think that's a good example of outstanding service!
It occurs to me that perhaps some don't understand the definition of "neutral". Let me help out. It means not "good" and not "bad". The coin arrived safely, that was "good". The coin was shipped in a #10 envelope that easily could have been destroyed, that was "bad". Add a + to a -, and what do we come up with? Oh yeah, a neutral.
But, that aside, those who wish to do so, feel free to keep on posting positives for sellers who do not earn them. I guess that's just the eBay way of rewarding lethargy and encouraging mediocrity.
Russ, the only flaw in your logic is that although you are specifically correct in your definition of "Neutral" it takes on a negative meaning when used for feedback on eBay. That may well be unfortunute, but it is the way the feedback has evolved.
Correct Braddick. The dictionary definition of Neutral is not the eBay definition.
In the original design, a "Neutral" should be used for most transactions - The item arrived and was in the condition advertised.
Now when you click "Neutral" you get the same warning about slander as you do with a complaint, and eBay notfies the user they are about to do something potentially damaging and ask you contact the other party and try to work it out first.
Coin okay, but $2 ship for a 37¢ stamp and it arrived POSTAGE DUE!
Sounds like a "Complaint" to me. Maybe the SHOUTING is more telling
Hey Bear- Perhaps the proper perspective is - 12 stinking cents, why did it warrant a thread to begin with???
The seller provided the exact coin, as pictured in the auction, in a timely manner. The coin arrived safely with NO damage. The postage due mistake was due to a postal clerk's error. A simple e-mail to the seller could have avoided this entire thread. But, that just wasn't done. Seems the Ebay seller is the innocent victim here.
I think you got a good deal, and you should be pleased when you see it in person, if you haven't already. If I recall my cost correctly, you got it for about $93 less than I originally paid, not including fees. If it is not already in hand, you should have it in the next day or two. The holder scuffs made the picture look bad- the coin's a beaut. I thought I was hot stuff, having a PR67 DCAM Franklin in my type set, until I saw all those 68 and 69 DCAM's on the Registry! I see LucyBop just "made" a 68 DCAM. That must be a pretty nice feeling. The black-n'-white contrast on those DCAM's is irresistable. As I mentioned in the eBay listing, I wouldn't have sold that coin if I hadn't pretty much quit collecting 20th century stuff.
Been away for several days and another controversy! From reading the other posts, it seems that there has been a long winded discusssion concerning a postage due coin shipment. I've received coins that were shipped in regular envelopes for one ounce postage. In many cases, the seller charged me several dollars for sending it that way. I personnaly did not give a negative feedback because of poor shipping methods. I guess I consider the negative feedback to be earned when the deal went bad or the seller was sending me crap goods. Unfortunately, neutral tends to be tied more closer to negative, because it seems to imply that something in the deal went wrong. I guess 12 cents is a small amount to get all worked up over a negative feedback comment. But of course, there are people who will consider the overall facets of a given transaction and provide feedback based on the overall picture. If I were the buyer, I would not have issued negative or even neutral feedback, but that is only my personal opinion. What each person decides to provide comment on is their own opinion. To each his/her own. By the way, I just received my first negative feedback on ebay! I did not follow through with a purchase (so it is my own fault). After further mulling over the bid that I placed on a coin, I realized that I got caught up in the bidding war hype and bid over twice what it would be worth. The coin was relisted and ended up less than 1/2 to what I had bid on it. I know that from the ebay bidding rules, that I was contractually obligated to follow through with the transaction. But I was willing to accept the negative rather than fork over the dough. On the comment about the metered postage. That is rather odd about it. It could have been posted with that sticker outside the post office.
Recommended reading - The PCGS Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection and The Coin Collector's Survival Manual and NCI Grading Guide For the Morgan collectors - The Morgan and Peace encyclopedia by Van Allen and Mallis
What would your slabbed coins be worth if the grading services went out of business? What would your coins be worth if the Internet was taken offline for good?
Gemseeker- You are right the method of packaging and 12 cents of postage due certainly did not warrant a Neutral feedback.
Regarding the metered postage, seems you did not check the auction and the seller's response to the Neutral feedback. Nancy took the package to the Post Office, they weighed the package and applied the metered postage.
Seems you could have been forthright enough to make good on your bid. So much for integrity........
Well, hello everyone. I am a new member, who was invited to join by one of your senior members on this board. I am the person (nankraut) who was the seller in this case, and has apparently become "infamous" over 12C postage due. So...here's the truth and nothing but the truth: Yes, I took the package to the post office (3 miles in the old chevy). Yes, it was in a white #10 envelope because I temporarily ran out of padded mailers, and did not want to delay shipment. Yes, the coin was in a vinyl flip, surrounded with bubble padding. Yes, the post office weighed it, advised that it was non-machinable due to thickness, and charged me 37C. I watched them affix the postage and place it in the outgoing bin. I've apologized to Russ for the excess postage charges, and offered to re-imburse him. I've generally charged $2.00 for non-insured single coin shipments, because I never know exactly how much they'll weigh, and how much the P.O. will charge. Sometimes, it's more--sometimes, it's less. The return address on the shipment (Nancy) is my lovely wife of 45+ years, who got the labels for donating money to some outfit or another last Christmas. I'm an old (over 65) private collector who is in deteriorating health, and am selling my coins to send my grandaughter to college. (Please, no sympathy). Thanks for the opportunity to post.
Regards,
Nankraut
I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
Since I am not sure of all the facts because a bias will take place whenever someone tells their side of a story, I am not going to pick sides as to whether Russ was totally justified. I will, however, say that, knowing Russ, there was probably some misunderstanding of an email reply and a little haste with his feedback. Maybe he was having a bad day, I don't know (I know I am very irritable when I am having a bad day and may lean slightly in the direction of letting a little anger out).
Seeing both sides of the story, I will, however, say that I think a follow-up is in store for Russ' feedback.
Nankruat- I would like to welcome you to the forums and hope you would stay- we can always use more coin people In Russ' words, "got proof JFKs?"
nankraut - Thanks for the explanation about the situation with the mailing. I have paid well above what you charged for shipping and received coins in an envelope with only postage stamps on them. In many cases, people don't have the time to devote to send something in a more secure packaging. It is a bit odd that if it was their mistake in charging you insufficient postage or if they labeled it with the wrong amount, they should have gone through with the delivery without a postage due shortfall on the package. It's the same situation if a restaurant or merchant said you were charged a certain amount for an item that did not match the price shown. If the price was above the listed price, you can complain. If it was below, the transaction price would still be honored. BTW, good luck on the college fund. DCAM Frankin - I know what you mean. I am at the point of going cold turkey on coin transactions and have stopped. I guess after reading so much about the entire industry I decided it was best to cut the cord and take a breather. I also had bid on coins from one ebay seller that was over a thousand dollars. The seller got NARUed. I guess it would have been the right thing to do to complete that as well.
Recommended reading - The PCGS Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection and The Coin Collector's Survival Manual and NCI Grading Guide For the Morgan collectors - The Morgan and Peace encyclopedia by Van Allen and Mallis
What would your slabbed coins be worth if the grading services went out of business? What would your coins be worth if the Internet was taken offline for good?
I believe that situation would have been best handled by an email to you from the buyer, because of the negative nature of a "neutral" on ebay.
People are human and mistakes are made. Because of an obsure postal regulation that the clerk didn't follow and due to no fault of yours it didn't rise to that level. If it's any consulation, the buyer had an advantage in that transaction and the neutral seemed kinda like a kick in the head.
I see you've completed hundreds of sucessful transactions and I'm sure you do more.
Thanks for taking your time to respond and good luck with your coin sales.
Nankraut- Welcome to the Forum. I look forward to comments and insight in future.
As Relayer said earlier, you've completed 100's of transactions on Ebay. Personally, I'm sorry you received a Neutral Feedback for a silly little 12 cents. Seems you went out of your way to provide fast delivery, though you ran out of padded mailers. Yet, you still were held up for ridicule. Not one of our best moments.
I wish you continued good luck with your future auctions. Your track record is SPOTLESS with me!
Russ, You may not see the need for privacy, but WHY did you post the envelope with this person`s address on it? Time for me to make some mental notes about the character of some folks on this forum.
A dealer once asked me if I noticed any three-legged buffalos on the bourse,to which I replied,"...no,but I saw alot of two-legged jackasses..."
You are right. I have removed the scan. And, posting it has nothing to do with "character". I just didn't think about it since I couldn't care less who has my address. I forgot that there are two addresses on an envelope.
Comments
<< <i>After you chemically alter the surface and list your new shinny AH on eBay >>
Since I don't sell my Accented Hairs, the above would qualify as a pretty stupid statement.
<< <i>do you think you should be negged for making $2.12 profit on your exessive postage charge >>
You're not the sharpest math pencil in the box, are you?
Too many people these days seem ready and willing to accept crappy service as a way of life. Some even seem to feel that crappy service should be rewarded. That's a sad commentary on the state of things.
Russ, NCNE
Goose-
S/H charges are listed in the ad. If you don't agree with it, don't bid.
With some people, if they found a bar of gold on the street they'd complain because it didn't have a handle on it.
If you think your $10 coins should be delivered by Brinks in a mink lined envelope then lots of luck to you.
Russ-
Didn't somebody once say "Retalitory feedback is childish"?
There are 4 feedback options - Praise, Netural, Complaint - and NONE.
If you didn't want to click on "Praise" why bother to leave feedback at all?
Or were you doing a public service by warning others of this fraudulant attrocity?
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
The reason for the extra 12 cents charge is that the Post Office will sort it by hand, as opposed to using the sorting machine. At least, that's what our local postmaster told me when I asked him about it. Of course, if after you pay the extra 12 cents it gets shredded to pieces by the sorting machine that was not supposed to be used, you'll get a big OOPS from the Post Office.
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
no one cares if the seller makes money or not. you don't have the inherent right to profit. if ebay margins are so thin and you're giving away merchandise so cheaply, then why are you selling there?
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
A #10 envelope canNOT do that without the assistance of those sticky cardboard things.
relayer, you act like I am asking for the moon.
I'd prefer a platinum bar and wouldn't mind if it had a handle or not!
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
<< <i>i've had sellers list postage as $5.15 - suggesting it will be shipped priority with insurance - and then it arrives in an uninsured bubble mailer with 2 stamps on it. >>
I've run across listings like this and if I am genuinely interested I will fire an email and politely ask the seller exactly how they are going to ship.
VERY TRUE
why should my item be at jepordy because some lazy tight a$$ cant do things right? or have the common sence to try and do things right
i package everything as if it where glass,i dont need things comming back because the post office machined it,or the envolope was so cheesy and it has been used a few times the coin falls out, these things just create grief for the seller,protect your a$$ as the seller and do things properly or have a terrible feedback and no one will pay what the item is worth or they wont bid at all thinking your a slob and a cheat>>>>>>>>>>>>>simple rules it takes no more time to do things right if you have the right things on hand,and you should if your going to sell coins to anyone!
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
The seller wrapped the coin with padded protection and then put in the #10 envelope. That padded protection is what caused the envelope to be considered too thick and was responsible for the additional 12c charge. That's a good thing! Personally, I wrap all coins in bubblewrap, then in a copy of the auction page and then place them in a bubblewrap envelope and I would have found that preferable. However, I have received raw coins in #10 envelopes a number of times.
The auction ended on the 10th and the seller mailed the package on the 16th. Regardless of when when Russ made payment for the coin, that is certainly acceptable. The seller took the coin to the Post Office, had them weigh the coin and CONTRARY to Russ' thread the postal clerk applied a postage label (a stamp was not used for postage). If a mistake was made regarding the additional 12c charge, it was the postal clerk's fault, not that of the seller!
I have never been able to mail coins at the Post Office in less than 30 minutes and I am there 3 or 4 days every week. It takes me 20 minutes to drive there and back. The seller is certainly due compensation for that time. Any Member that disagrees does not value their own time and probably has little else to do with their time. Busy professionals understand the value of one's time and will never argue that point.
The mistake, regarding postage, was made by the postal clerk. The package arrived safely and in a timely manner. The coin was as pictured. It was not damaged. The seller was treated poorly and did not deserve anything other than a Postive Feedback with perhaps an e-mail saying the buyer expected better packaging for the $2.00 charge.
Clark
Russ-
Well I guess it's just a matter of perspective and attitude about life.
What seems noble and righteous to some will seem petty and immature to others.
What did the seller do that was wrong? Should she have argued with the postal clerk that more postage should have been put on the envelope?
I guess if you emailed the seller first and tried to educate her about high speed sorting machines and explained that a regular envelope will cause the machines to jam if the letter is too thick, that would have been useful.
But I guess it was more satisfying to you to degrade her. Oh well. Like I said, it’s a matter of perspective and attitude.
You are right a lot of time Russ, but you sure missed the boat on this one.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
I don't think this seller is a bad apple. I see she posted a reply to your comment. Perhaps you should offer a followup to praise her for her efforts to make good on the problem (if she has in fact made such efforts?)
If any of you ever get lousy service, or ripped off by a seller with no indication of a problem in their feedback profile and wonder what happened, just keep in mind that your bed is of your own making. You may choose to accept inferior service when transacting business, I will not. Never have, never will.
<< <i>Perhaps you should offer a followup to praise her for her efforts to make good on the problem >>
LM,
Actually, I'm waiting on a response back from my eMail that will determine whether or not I do that. It's a "he" BTW, probably the wife's sticker.
Russ, NCNE
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Well, it is certainly easy to understand the lack of value you place upon your principles. If you are weak enough to allow a seller to hold a potential retaliatory Negative Feedback over your head and succumb to accepting an inferior coin and providing Positive Feedback, then I am going to find it impossible to accept your criticism of the Ebay Feedback system.
That does NOT imply that a buyer should immediately whack a seller with a Negative Feedback upon receiving a coin that did not meet a buyer's expectation. Send an e-mail inquiring about the coin. I have cleaned up more "messy" situations by simply sending an e-mail beginning with the following, "It appears some kind of miscommunication has occured. I was the winner of auction #xxxxxxx and I was to receive a (coin's description). And I have received yyyyyyyy. Please let me hear from you."
However, if a seller simply won't work with you to find an equitable compromise, then no one on Ebay should shrink from the responsibility of warning others by providing honest, pointed Negative/Neutral Feedback.
Personally, I always submit Feedback prior to shipping the coins I sell. I always submit Feedback immediately upon receiving a coin I purchase or after we work out a compromise after a "messy" situation.
Goose3's "Fairytale" version of Russ' 12 cents
Average, or "OK", in other words. A positive should be reserved for the sellers that really exceed expectations and neutrals for those that meet expectations.
As to #10 envelopes, I use them to ship most raw coins (not including bulk lots), but the coins are in flips and stapled into some heavy card stock (which is folded over several times), so nothing shifts around in the envelope. It seems to work well- I ship coins all over the world this way. Slabbed coins and bulk lots I send in the padded mailers.
Baccaruda- I don't agree with you that the system is totally worthless, but I do share your pet peeve about sellers that withold feedback. I think the seller should leave feedback upon receipt of payment, and the buyer should leave it upon receipt of the product. However, having read some of the really frivolous negatives that some sellers have been left by inexperienced or stupid bidders, I can certainly understand if some of them wish to wait until the bidder leaves feedback.
Ebay's feedback forum is flawed, perhaps, but certainly better than nothing. How often do you find yourself wishing that brick-and-mortar businesses listed in the telephone book had feedback from all their customers out there for all to see? I do. I'll bet service would be a lot better.
please reread your post. do you really believe that a seller who meets your expectations only deserves a neutral? how often are your expectations exceeded by ebay transactions? more often than not?
when this doesn't happen do you give out more neutrals (expectations met) or negatives (whatever the criteria would be)?
golly, here's another buyer to watch out for. ;-)
You are so right when you say, "golly, here's another buyer to watch out for." Somehow Russ seems to think that his Neutral will warn other buyers.
Is there anyone here that believes someone will refuse to bid on "Nancy's" auctions due to Russ' Neutral Feedback????? Anyone? Of course not!
What it will say to other sellers is, "Whew, I hope that buyer never bids on my auctions!"
Russ says, "The attitude displayed by some in this thread is precisely why the Ebay feedback system is pretty useless." In fact, it warned all of Ebay that some buyer chose to submit Neutral Feedback prior to contacting the seller. The seller then offered to refund that GREAT BIG OL' 12 CENTS!
Of course I don't give neutrals (except for one time when a product was lost in the mail and the seller was unhelpful/unclear about whether it had been insured or not- I have only given one neutral and four negs in 700+ transactions). Perhaps YOU should reread my post. I realize that neutrals are stigmatized, even though I don't think they should be.
Seems we had some miscommunication. I wasn't implying anything about buyers' hoping you don't bid on their auctions. I was saying that a seller would feel that way about Compucheap upon reading that Neutral Feedback.
Gee, just the other night you were inviting me to bid on your '56 PR-67 DCAM Franklin?! Not in such a subtle manner, either. Happily, I found a PR-68 DCAM instead.
maybe there should be a fourth tier of feedback for exceptional transactions.
The hinting about the DCAM Franklin was probably followed by a (
AL
Gotta love them Mercs
This is where when someone sends you what they advertised
to send , they should get a superlative. Then what do you give someone
for truly outstanding service? A bronz star?
Camelot
Joe
A fourth tier of feedback is an interesting idea. Maybe better yet would be a letter grade: A, B, C, D, or F. But then people would whine about getting B's and C's, and that would be stigmatized like the Neutral feedback is now.
I stand by my previous comments about the way it SHOULD be: a neutral should be for a transaction that meets expectations: good but not necessarily great. A positive should be for the exceptional ones.
Or, to use a twist on Bear's example, maybe a bronze star for OK, a silver star for good, and a gold star for terrific. (With a little "turkey" icon for a loser, heheh.)
I normally have quite high respect for Russ, but in this case he just simply missed the boat. If anyone deserves negative feedback, it's the Post Office. The seller hand delivered, they figured postage, and accepted postage. Any other business out there, if they're short, they eat the difference. Not the Post Office! Well, I think they should have eaten the stupid friggin twelve cents!
The seller wasn't really sloppy, the shipping method was appropriate. The two dollars Russ paid went toward *the actual shipping charge (which was miscalculated by the PO), *the mailer *the bubble wrap *gas and time to get to the Post Office. *the flip. All these things can and do add up and I think the two bucks was justified. More than that might have been a bit much. I agree the seller could have used a saflip or something other than vinyl, but sh!t happens right? Was the coin damaged in shipping?
Russ, you keep saying 'it's not the twelve cents, it's the principle'. I think you are angry at the principle of the PO charging you for their error, you're not mad because of 'shoddy shipping'. This wasn't a super expensive coin, and the seller could have done a lot worse in the shipping dept. If you haven't done so already, I'd encourage you to post a follow up on the neutral explaining the seller did offer to refund your .12¢. You complain about poor service, but the seller offered to refund your .12¢, for which it wasn't even their fault! I think that's a good example of outstanding service!
its time to put this little puppy to bed? Bear
Camelot
But, that aside, those who wish to do so, feel free to keep on posting positives for sellers who do not earn them. I guess that's just the eBay way of rewarding lethargy and encouraging mediocrity.
Russ, NCNE
That may well be unfortunute, but it is the way the feedback has evolved.
Neutral is BAD.
Negative is Worse.
peacockcoins
In the original design, a "Neutral" should be used for most transactions - The item arrived and was in the condition advertised.
Now when you click "Neutral" you get the same warning about slander as you do with a complaint, and eBay notfies the user they are about to do something potentially damaging and ask you contact the other party and try to work it out first.
Coin okay, but $2 ship for a 37¢ stamp and it arrived POSTAGE DUE!
Sounds like a "Complaint" to me. Maybe the SHOUTING is more telling
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Perhaps the proper perspective is - 12 stinking cents, why did it warrant a thread to begin with???
The seller provided the exact coin, as pictured in the auction, in a timely manner. The coin arrived safely with NO damage. The postage due mistake was due to a postal clerk's error. A simple e-mail to the seller could have avoided this entire thread. But, that just wasn't done. Seems the Ebay seller is the innocent victim here.
I just lost almost a hundred bucks on the thing but I probably paid too much to begin with. It was a nice coin but looked bad in my pics.
After the registry bump the other week, I hate to tell you this, but I'm the one who bought it.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
forget that it made it safely and quickly.
it's not good because it could have been destroyed?
it doesn't matter that it wasn't destroyed.
ohhhhh, i see.
yeah right, i get it now. ;-)
I think you got a good deal, and you should be pleased when you see it in person, if you haven't already. If I recall my cost correctly, you got it for about $93 less than I originally paid, not including fees. If it is not already in hand, you should have it in the next day or two. The holder scuffs made the picture look bad- the coin's a beaut. I thought I was hot stuff, having a PR67 DCAM Franklin in my type set, until I saw all those 68 and 69 DCAM's on the Registry! I see LucyBop just "made" a 68 DCAM. That must be a pretty nice feeling. The black-n'-white contrast on those DCAM's is irresistable. As I mentioned in the eBay listing, I wouldn't have sold that coin if I hadn't pretty much quit collecting 20th century stuff.
By the way, I just received my first negative feedback on ebay! I did not follow through with a purchase (so it is my own fault). After further mulling over the bid that I placed on a coin, I realized that I got caught up in the bidding war hype and bid over twice what it would be worth. The coin was relisted and ended up less than 1/2 to what I had bid on it. I know that from the ebay bidding rules, that I was contractually obligated to follow through with the transaction. But I was willing to accept the negative rather than fork over the dough.
On the comment about the metered postage. That is rather odd about it. It could have been posted with that sticker outside the post office.
For the Morgan collectors - The Morgan and Peace encyclopedia by Van Allen and Mallis
What would your slabbed coins be worth if the grading services went out of business? What would your coins be worth if the Internet was taken offline for good?
You are right the method of packaging and 12 cents of postage due certainly did not warrant a Neutral feedback.
Regarding the metered postage, seems you did not check the auction and the seller's response to the Neutral feedback. Nancy took the package to the Post Office, they weighed the package and applied the metered postage.
Seems you could have been forthright enough to make good on your bid. So much for integrity........
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
So...here's the truth and nothing but the truth:
Yes, I took the package to the post office (3 miles in the old chevy). Yes, it was in a white #10 envelope because I temporarily ran out of padded mailers, and did not want to delay shipment. Yes, the coin was in a vinyl flip, surrounded with bubble padding. Yes, the post office weighed it, advised that it was non-machinable due to thickness, and charged me 37C. I watched them affix the postage and place it in the outgoing bin. I've apologized to Russ for the excess postage charges, and offered to re-imburse him. I've generally charged $2.00 for non-insured single coin shipments, because I never know exactly how much they'll weigh, and how much the P.O. will charge. Sometimes, it's more--sometimes, it's less. The return address on the shipment (Nancy) is my lovely wife of 45+ years, who got the labels for donating money to some outfit or another last Christmas. I'm an old (over 65) private collector who is in deteriorating health, and am selling my coins to send my grandaughter to college. (Please, no sympathy). Thanks for the opportunity to post.
Regards,
Nankraut
Since I am not sure of all the facts because a bias will take place whenever someone tells their side of a story, I am not going to pick sides as to whether Russ was totally justified. I will, however, say that, knowing Russ, there was probably some misunderstanding of an email reply and a little haste with his feedback. Maybe he was having a bad day, I don't know (I know I am very irritable when I am having a bad day and may lean slightly in the direction of letting a little anger out).
Seeing both sides of the story, I will, however, say that I think a follow-up is in store for Russ' feedback.
Nankruat- I would like to welcome you to the forums and hope you would stay- we can always use more coin people
Now let's all be friends!
Jeremy
DCAM Frankin - I know what you mean. I am at the point of going cold turkey on coin transactions and have stopped. I guess after reading so much about the entire industry I decided it was best to cut the cord and take a breather. I also had bid on coins from one ebay seller that was over a thousand dollars. The seller got NARUed. I guess it would have been the right thing to do to complete that as well.
For the Morgan collectors - The Morgan and Peace encyclopedia by Van Allen and Mallis
What would your slabbed coins be worth if the grading services went out of business? What would your coins be worth if the Internet was taken offline for good?
Nankraut
I believe that situation would have been best handled by an email to you from the buyer, because of the negative nature of a "neutral" on ebay.
People are human and mistakes are made. Because of an obsure postal regulation that the clerk didn't follow and due to no fault of yours it didn't rise to that level. If it's any consulation, the buyer had an advantage in that transaction and the neutral seemed kinda like a kick in the head.
I see you've completed hundreds of sucessful transactions and I'm sure you do more.
Thanks for taking your time to respond and good luck with your coin sales.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Welcome to the Forum. I look forward to comments and insight in future.
As Relayer said earlier, you've completed 100's of transactions on Ebay. Personally, I'm sorry you received a Neutral Feedback for a silly little 12 cents. Seems you went out of your way to provide fast delivery, though you ran out of padded mailers. Yet, you still were held up for ridicule. Not one of our best moments.
I wish you continued good luck with your future auctions. Your track record is SPOTLESS with me!
You may not see the need for privacy, but WHY did you post the envelope with this person`s address on it?
Time for me to make some mental notes about the character of some folks on this forum.
i am embarrassed that i participated so avidly and completely missed what should have been picked up on so long ago.
thank you for not letting it slip by!
You are right. I have removed the scan. And, posting it has nothing to do with "character". I just didn't think about it since I couldn't care less who has my address. I forgot that there are two addresses on an envelope.
Russ, NCNE