What do you consider the most over valued coin?
DesertLizard
Posts: 702 ✭
We did this one a while but it is always interesting what people say.
Would love to hear from our dealer friends!
I vote for 1c 1909 S VDB MS65 Red. Goes for $3,000+ and that with pop of 568/142 !! Go figure.
Would love to hear from our dealer friends!
I vote for 1c 1909 S VDB MS65 Red. Goes for $3,000+ and that with pop of 568/142 !! Go figure.
0
Comments
The ones I am attempting to sell are always under-valued.
see? My Auctions "Got any 1800's gold?"
ITs the #1 sucker buy in the coin business and its selling by the dozen on ebay
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
And of course the famous die crack state quarter for $195k.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
Really it is all the high grade modern coins.
Tony
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
My EDS 1953-S MS66 Full Step Jefferson. LOL
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Collector
<< And of course the famous die crack state quarter for $195k. >>
PLACID YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! THE PISSING DIE CRACK IS A PROOF AND PROOFS ARE INSPECTED FOR QUALITY BEFORE BEING SOLD! BECAUSE IT IS A PROOF COIN, IT IS MORE VALUABLE! I THINK YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON A GREAT INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY. THIS COIN WILL SELL FOR A MILLION DOLLARS IN JUST A FEW YEARS!!!!
Collector
<< And of course the famous die crack state quarter for $195k. >>
PLACID YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! THE PISSING DIE CRACK IS A PROOF AND PROOFS ARE INSPECTED FOR QUALITY BEFORE BEING SOLD! BECAUSE IT IS A PROOF COIN, IT IS MORE VALUABLE! I THINK YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON A GREAT INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY. THIS COIN WILL SELL FOR A MILLION DOLLARS IN JUST A FEW YEARS!!!!
Boy that sent an ugly shiver up my back
<< <i>Placid Collector << And of course the famous die crack state quarter for $195k. >> PLACID YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! THE PISSING DIE CRACK IS A PROOF AND PROOFS ARE INSPECTED FOR QUALITY BEFORE BEING SOLD! BECAUSE IT IS A PROOF COIN, IT IS MORE VALUABLE! I THINK YOU ARE MISSING OUT ON A GREAT INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY. THIS COIN WILL SELL FOR A MILLION DOLLARS IN JUST A FEW YEARS!!!!
NUMNUTS
We've had this discussion beforfe. There are MANY coins with lower pops, that sell for multiples cheaper. The reason: LOTS of people want the 09S VDB, and far fewer people want, or maybe even know about, many others.
For the same reason, the Three-Legged Buff is desireable not because people misunderstand how it was made, but because it is so well known, and looks cool! Again lots of people know about it, and lots of people want it. It is "special" and famous.
The 55 Lincoln doubled-die is another example.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
roadrunner
dpoole has it right, this has been discussed more than once
<< <i>I think any error/variety that is listed in the red book is way over priced. There are many double dies that are more scarce than the ones listed but they are not as well known. If the 55 ddo and the 22p are listed in whitman books they should make a hole for every error known. >>
...for every error or every die variety? They are completely different animals. I would actually like to see an album set for all the known die varieties, but known to whom would be the problem. There are thousands upon thousands of them known in all US coin series minted between the late 1800s and 1996 or so, and the five or more authoritative sources for die listing systems don't necessarily all agree on what is and isn't a listable die variety...so an album idea would be completely out.
Secondarily, you mention that all of the ones listed in the Red Book are overpriced...I don't know that I agree with that. Most of the ones that are not listed and are much less known and rarer are rare because few people can identify them, and few people look for them. They are not listed in the Red Book because that's not the purpose of that book. If they tried listing everything, they might as well correct and rewrite Breen's attempt to do the same...many of the "varieties" listed in his guide have since been disproven.
There are many different die varieties in my specialty (Lincoln cents) that sell for $100-$1000 which are not listed in the Red book. I can name a couple dozen right off the top of my head, and a little research on my part could bring a list numbering 50 or so...and ALL of these are much less dramatic than the doubled dies the Red Book lists...thus are likely worth less than the Red book listed 1917P DDO, 1936P DDO, 1955P DDO, 1969S DDO, etc... In fact, with regard to the 1969S DDO, it is considered to be extremely rare, and there happens to be a 1970S large date DDO with a similar spread which sells for $10,000 or more in BU and is just as rare, and has never been mentioned by the Red Book. Fewer than two dozen specimens are known to exist. I could go on and on, but won't
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
proof or business strike in an ICG holder.
Brian.
Type collectors have the cheaper 09 VDB.
The pop of the 09 SVDB more than satisifies the series collectors. The demand from the series collectors would be on the lower pop coins not the 09 SVDB.
How can the 09 SVDB even be called a rarity? Someone or thing has really got a lot of collectors buffaloed.
The bubble will pop one day as soon as everyone wakes up. The only question is when?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
<< <i>Why do all these collectors want the 09 SVDB? >>
Quite a number of collectors don't care about "POP"...I know I don't. The reason why so many want them is because the Lincoln cent is the most popularly collected series, and the 1909S VDB had a mintage of 480,000 coins.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
C.D., that's one of the smarter things I heard lately. One of the biggest distractions in the hobby IMO is the focus on the value of a particular coin as the reason for its collectibility.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Jamericon gave an excellent example of the 1931 S cent.
Other examples of overpriced coins, but not as extreme as the 09S VDB cent are the 1883 -- 5 CC Morgans in MS 65. They are plentiful, but people like the 83 & 84 because they're the 'cheaper' CC $s, and they like the 85 because of the 228,000 overall mintage, even though I don't think hardly any of them got into circulation.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I don't get the attraction.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Quite a number of collectors don't care about "POP"...I know I don't. The reason why so many want them is because the Lincoln cent is the most popularly collected series, and the 1909S VDB had a mintage of 480,000 coins. >>
A low mintage only adds value to a coin based on the coins probability of a low survival rate which is a direct reflection of the pop. In practice low mintage = probability of a low survival rate = rarity = demand = higher price.
The 1909 SVDB defies all logic. low mintage = high survival rate = common = demand = higher price.
Between 1909 and 1930 including all mint marks only the 09VDB, 09, 26, 30, & 30S have a higher pop in MS65RD and better. They all sell for under $100 while the 09 SVDB is a whopping $5250 in MS65RD. Of all the other date & mint marks between 09 and 30 (excluding the 22D fiasco) that have a lower pop only 10 have a higher price tag.
The 1909S VDB had a low mintage of 480,000 coins is why collectors want it and pay the outrages prices? If that is the case what happened to the 1931S? It has the second lowest mintage in the entire series of 866,000. 1909S VDB, MS65RD+ Pop 717, Price in 65RD $5250.00. 1931S, MS65RD+ Pop 617, Price in 65RD $575.00
To say "collectors don't care about POP" and they want it because of the low "mintage of 480,000 coins" is a little contradicting.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
grades higher than MS 65 are over priced...
common coins in high grades...many,many examples of 'over priced' where the high price to acquire has little or nothing to do with the actual rarity...
as an example $1000 spent to acquire one coin,i would rather spend that $1000 on a mint state truly scarce/rare coin such as 1867-s dime than an MS68 anything after 1930...
my thinking is that the 1867-s in true mint state is many times rarer than anything made after about 1930 that the 'market' these days will claim is worth $1000 in MS68. Forget those population reports.They are nothing but marketing tools designed to make money off common
coins in uncommon grades.Most of us are on the 'money going out' side of the equation when we make our acquisitions and sales.
Rarity is the thing.If you can get true rarity and beauty too...that's wonderful...JMHO.
when it comes time to sell i'll take my chances with my $1000 mint state !867-s over ANY MS68,
say Washington Quarter, that would take my $1000 to acquire.i don't mean to pick on
Washington quarters here so don't you collectors of Washingtons be offended...please.
speaking of 1909svdb...i never did find one of those when i was a kid.The local pharmacist did find one in a roll from a Nebraska bank in the 60's,a nice au...and the price most definitely was right.But you know,now i have a choice mint state 1909-D dime that is at least fifty times rarer than choice mint state 1909svdb...and they're probably priced about the same in today's market.
yeah,i paid dearly for that dime...
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
A coin cannot be overpriced or underpriced because it is common or rare. A coin can only be priced wrongly if the price is being manipulated by forces other than supply and demand. Like hype.
The 09-S VDB is certainly common in unc - but the demand is very, very high and will continue to be high. It's famous, and people like fame. But it's not being hyped - its demand has maintained for almost a century.
sincerely michael
Michael - Excellent point that seems to skip right by many forum members. They say that many coins don't cost any more slabbed than un-slabbed. That arguement simply doesn't hold water. Bust all your slabs open and try selling the coins to your buddies for the same price they would sell at slabbed (even sight unseen). Simply not gonna happen, hands down, end of story. Point is, the slabbers buy the plastic, regardless of what they say - if they weren't buying plastic, cracking the coins out and selling them "raw" (I hate that term) shouldn't be a problem at all. Let the coins stand on THEIR merit, not the merit of an overgrading, overpriced enterprise.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
Then what happened to the 1931S? It has the second lowest mintage in the entire series of 866,000. Yet it is only worth 1/10 what the 09S VDB is worth.
Is that the most undervalued coin?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
<< <i>Point is, the slabbers buy the plastic, regardless of what they say - if they weren't buying plastic, cracking the coins out and selling them "raw" (I hate that term) shouldn't be a problem at all. Let the coins stand on THEIR merit, not the merit of an overgrading, overpriced enterprise. >>
Need to quit thinking about the good old days. Due to the crooks in the business third party grading evolved. Today at least 75% of all the original high quality coins reside in a slab. The majority of the market that most collectors have access to demands a high quality coin be in a slab before it will realize its true value. To ask a collector to remove their coins from the slab and let them stand on their own merit is ludicrous. Most would end up at the mercy of a dealer looking to slab it and make a killing. Or another collector talking $hit about it also looking to get it in a slab and make a killing.
GET REAL.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
The part regarding the crooks - that's a bad thing, and I'm really sorry it happened...but the answer isn't padding the pockets of a company and trusting their every word. The answer is learning to be wiser and more knowledgeable than the crooks.
What I think is sickening is seeing people spend all this money on plastic holders - both to have their coins put in, and in purchasing coins in them for higher prices just for what the holders say. None of them are infallable - in fact many times they are down right incorrect. For the money people spend on these slabs, both for the service and for the after market they create for themselves, many, many inexpensive but good holders and many books could be purchased that would better educate the collector than have them run out buying common coins at 100 times their value because of a stupid holder.
As for the extremely rare high grade coins - I've never really considered it....but someone willing to spend thousands on a single coin needs to be well educated ahead of the fact. In that, they should be able to grade, detect a counterfeit, and detect harmful cleaning. Enough said.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
On an expensive coin, that grade guarantee can be very cheap insurance. Of particular intersest to you may be that PCGS will even guarantee copper -- both grade, and color designation.
You could buy a MS65 Red 1909-S VDB PCGS Lincoln from an anonymous dealer at a coin show, and if 5 years later it has turned brown, or developed a corrosion spot, PCGS will make you whole.
Compare that to buying the same coin raw. Even if you could find the original dealer, want to place any bets on the outcome?
2 coins that are equal in all respects sit side by side, they both have the same price attached, one is in a PCGS slab and one is raw. Its a coin you want. Which one do you buy? How about when you go to sell it, which one will be easier to sell at the same price? There is a premium and how much the premium is is what should really be debated. The slab coin is worth more and should be worth more.
You have to go back to the point of creating slabs. It was to create a market for coins where the buyer could purchase a coin sight unseen and be assured they were getting what they wanted. At coin shows this is important because a dealer may be from any surronding state and once the coin leaves his sight he could come up with any excuse if you found a problem when you got home. Everyone has made a mistake purchase. In the internet world where customers and dealers can be 3000 miles away a slab is almost an essential. If for no other reason, slabs from reputable companies will always garner a premium because of the insurance rider they carry.
Back to the topic, the 1804 dollar is in my book the king of overpriced coins.
Rarity is the thing.If you can get true rarity and beauty too...that's wonderful...JMHO. -mr1874
Welcome. Hope you enjoy your stay.
I'm a big fan of rarity. I'll chase it down where ever I can find it. It has led me to world coins,
tokens, medals, and modern US. coins. Granted, most modern US is rare only in high grade or is
very rare or unique so is difficult to find and obtain. It's also true that little is known about mod-
erns so it can be difficult to do much research.
Rarity does not create value. I own several unreported and probably unique tokens. Most would
be difficult to sell for more than $20. And it's the same with coins! Unless people demand a coin
it can not have a high price.
For many centuries people have collected coins and they always included coins of recent manufac-
ter. These generally were not considered their most desirable coins but most collectors saved
them. This changed worldwide about 1950 and made it to this country in 1965. Very few people
continued saving new coins after this date. The output of the mint has just been dumped into cir-
culation where they have recieved heavy wear. For many of these coins the few survivors are the
mint set coins which were purchased primarily by non-collectors to keep up or as an investment.
The mint sets were so unloved that their wholesale price dropped well below face value for many
years (even today some are barely over face). So few collected these coins that the proportion of
choice coins in sets has barely changed over the years in many cases.
Since the issuance of the states coins people are for the first time putting together sets of moderns.
These people are demanding nice coins and are finding them few and far between. Many years of
attrition have taken a heavy toll on the populations of these coins and few gems were made in the
first place. Since these coins were not systematically set aside by collectors like other coins over the
years, there was no increased probability that a gem would survive.
If you want to spend your money on an 1867 dime then that makes you a collector. I would prefer
to have a 1967 dime in my collection.
<< <i>A much more reliable figure is the actual mintage of the coin. With the number of Lincoln cent collectors in this country, if the 09S VDB survived at 100% there weren't enough minted for all of the collectors >>
What are you smoking?? Survival rate is much more important than mintage. I could give you a hundred examples. As far as there being 480,000 Lincoln collectors, well......... forget it
The 09svdb was the king coin for those who grew up in the 50-70s, the one we never got. I wonder if the next generation will place such a premium on it.
How many people do you know putting together a set of Lincolns in 65RD??
Coyn
The market is driven by supply and demand. Although there are plenty of 1909 S VDB
cents available, more people seem to want them, hence the high prices. OTOH, the
1931 S cents are readily available, but far fewer people want them.
Another example is the 1879 silver seated coins. They are among the rarest of the Seated
Series, but virtually none of them circulated. So, if you want to pick one up in any grade of
Unc., they are the cheapest type coins out there because they are plentiful & apparently
the demand for Seated coinage is minimal compared to the demand for the 1909 S VDB cent.
I use pop reports only as a rough guide after hearing a guy at a show a few years ago brag
about how he had to submit an MS 64 Seated $ eleven times before it got into a 5 holder.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Thank you,cladking.
i've been a collector on and off for more years than i care to think about.i've learned to avoid
making disparaging remarks about any collector's interests...to each their own i say.you enjoy clad coinage and i wish you well in your pursuit of nice examples of the modern coinage.
later all...it's a beautiful day here in Denver Colorado...the golf course is calling my name...
Steve
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I have to agree with you abou the 1909-S-VDB cent. I have one customer who is almost exclusively a token collector. Yet on of the items that put on his want list was a 1909-S-VDB cent in MS-65, Red. The reason? He said,"I've wanted one since I was a kid."
As usual, Michael hits the nail on the head.
Obscurum per obscurius
Anyone who asserts that PCGS and to a lesser extent NGC don’t have a near monopoly position in this area of the market, is not being truthful. If the coins regularly traded for amounts that were somewhat close to these prices as raw coins, they would have a lot more credibility.
The 1804 dollar and 1913 Liberty nickel are so valuable due to extreme rarity and also heavy publicity (compare their prices to coins with similar, or lower, mintages such as the 1894S dime or 1870S half dime)