Cleaned - how can you tell?

bloodhound1

I recently sent two Indians to PCGS to be graded and both came back as cleaned. I may not be the brightest bulb in the bunch but for the life of me I cannot tell that these were 'cleaned'. I am familiar with thumbing, also picking up 'swirls' where some kind of cleaner/alcohol was used then rubbed - but I still cannot pick up the 'cleaned' aspect.

My scanner is not the best, but I did scan the 1883. Can anyone pick up what they feel is cleaned about the coin or how I can see what PCGS saw? Thanks for the input!

kryptonitecomics

Extremely tough to tell from the scan, but they do have a slightly off color that may just be the scan. Maybe someone tried to lightly dip them in a gentle cleaner as there is no harsh cleaning evident in your scans. I would trust PCGS if they state they're cleaned, but they aren't infallible either. Send them to ACG and you will get back MS67's for sure

crito

rev pic looks a little pinkish on my screen, dipped would be my guess doesn't look bad though.

bloodhound1

I made another scan with more detail....

Pushkin

May just be PCGS - not you. Its difficult to tell from the scan, but the coin doesn't look cleaned. PCGS has gotten darn picky on copper lately. I would send it to NGC.

Don't waste a lot of time trying to determine that its been cleaned when it is probably just PCGS! The grader's lunch sandwich bread was probably dry or his wife got on his case for not taking out the garbage, and the result is "poop rolls down hill".

BigD5

If there are no tell tale signs of a cleaning (I don't see any from the scan, but that doesn't mean much), and you can have another set of competant eyes view the coin, in person, and agree with you, resubmit the coin to ngc or anacs.
I had a really nice large cent a year or so ago, and sent it off to ngc to get slabbed. Bodybagged. Baffled the bologna out of me. I ended up selling the coin raw to another dealer, who was more in love with it than I originally was, and he ended up getting the coin back in an ms/63 rb holder from........ngc! The worst part was, he was upset it didn't 4!!!!!!! Sometimes there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it all. Get a second opinion before you spend/waste more submission money. Good luck.

shylock

Impossible to tell from the small image. 1883s are common with crimson toning like this, so tell us about the lustre and the consistency of the toning. An IH this well preserved should retain some lustre, and toning that doesn't change from the center outward seems to get frowned upon by them. They're tough on color due to their copper guaranty, and sometimes the non-conforming examples are best sent to NGC first.

bloodhound1

I jumped on the NGC coin site and it appears that I have to join for $99.00? Is this correct?

CLASSICS

it looks to be a nice coin, but hard to tell from the scan. send them to ngc to be graded and see what they say. if they too say the same thing, chances are what pcgs says is true.

sinin1

Is there anywhere on the fields that has some small scratches? - a small area of tiny hairline scratches is enough to designate cleaned - you might not even see them without a magnifyer.

beelzebud

Its almost impossible to tell from the scan. Perhaps the color of the coin is an indication it may have been dipped to long.

Bill

Lakesammman

Shylock sold me a beautiful 1883 with a similar color, PCGS 66R. As mentioned, it's hard to tell from a picture but IHC's from that era often have this color.

Don't forget, the 1864 L Proof 64R that recently sold for 138K was initially rejected by PCGS for "funny color". It's a great coin. I have a 1871 that got rejected and it's nicer than another I have in a PCGS holder! It will be sent in again soon.

If you believe in the coin, try again with PCGS or another service.

Elcontador

The "kiss of death" re copper is either an unnatural reddish color when it should be orange re old copper, or a dull, pinkish hue which you find with IHC & Lincoln Cents. I traded a harshly cleaned IHC slider to Tom Killian for the ugliest Unc. Morgan $ I've ever seen.

The color of the cleaned IHC will be a pinkish orange, and will have minimal, if any cartwheel luster. It will look like a 'dead' uncirculated coin. Images of copper are useless when it comes to color. Even Heritage, who does an excellent job with their images, tends to have their non-silver coins be a bit on the dark side of the color spectrum. I bought a brilliant MS 66 Liberty Nickel from them whose image looked dead because of the apricot colored toning.

Agree with Darin; have a second set of eyes look at the coin.