<< <i>ignoring the point is not a suitable answer to my very simple question >>
Ignoring what point? You mean your off topic question that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject of this thread?
<< <i>here it is again: i simply want to know whether or not you believe the registry program impacts pcgs's bottom line. >>
NOTE: Let me apologize to the originator of this thread for contributing to the off topic stupidity - born of his hatred of PCGS and his bigotry toward all us lesser collectors who choose to participate in the registry - that Karl has chosen to inject in to this discussion.
In answer to your question, Karl, based on CU's financial reports, the registry doesn't seem to be doing dick for the bottom line. So, what was your point again?
russ, my opinion differs from yours. i believe the registry is strictly marketing strategy used to enhance the bottom line of pcgs by inducing bidders to purchase coins strictly for use in the registry.
the point is very simply that. the registry is marketing strategy. nothing more, in my opinion.
i "hate" slabs no more than i "hate" being told that, in a discussion over a coin's grade, my opinion does not matter at all if the coin is slabbed.
I remember some time ago, in one of the threads either here or across the street (I'm a two-timer, and get confused where I read what!), that listed all the traditional arguments that go on in the U.S. Coin forums. We should be sure to include ``Registry vs non-Registry'' to the list!
Someone in this forum wrote that the registry is -- I'm paraphrasing -- merely just a tool, with no political agenda and no morality. It serves no masters and all masters at the same time.
If we're talking about the PCGS Set Registry, then it serves PCGS. If it's the Legend Collection of Trade Dollars, then it serves Legend. If it is the WWBillman Collection of ???, then it serves Bill. What we make of it, or not make of it, is a choice. We can do it right -- insert your opinion on what ``right'' is -- or we can do it wrong -- again, insert your opinion here. Or, we can not do it at all.
Those who've been saying that comments like the above is off-topic isn't entirely correct. The original topic is to inquire why more folks don't register. The investigation into the why's and wherefore's of the question of registering certainly should involve getting into what some people feel is wrong with the registry concept, and thus an explanation of those feelings.
In a nutshell, I think Laura hit the issue on the head: that it's too difficult for gregarious people to understand introversion. You really don't need a rational explanation to this, because 100% of us are not 100% rational 100% of the time.
For your information the coins that I had before even knowing the Registry exisited were 90% PCGS and 10% NGC with maybe a couple others thrown in. Crap thier Registry Marketing stratagy hit myself before I even knew the Registry existed.
Get Real with your thoughts on the Registry. If you do not like it fine. But some of the Off the Wall comments are just that, Off the Wall.
Hate to put posts like this up but the comments deserved the reply.
I find the Registry and links, a co-enabler of my addiction.
Sellers can be found.
Supplies can be reasonably be determined.
Street values can be estimated by grade.
Some people prefer to keep it private, others like to share......................................
The bottom line: Enjoy it for yourself. Enjoy it with others. The program promotes collecting, disscussion, and brings people together who would never meet, otherwise.
I believe there are still some bugs in the system. It's just going to take time, the advice of the gurus, and those who inquire, to smooth out the rough spots. Acceptance usually comes slowly.
I, myself, have embarked upon collecting a Registry Set. Currently - there is not one of this type in existence. It will be a long and tortuous undertaking filled with many journeys and quests - there are 76 coins spots to be filled
The ONLY thing I DO NOT like about PCGS is that their holders and service costs more and takes longer. I already have 7 of the 76 spots filled but 2 are graded by someone else and the others are raw. Now - it's not just the cost and the problem of finding these rare puppies - you gotta "pay the piper" too....PCGS that is. And, of course, they are the MOST expensive....OF COURSE!
THE ONLY redeeming factor is that the sets are indeed worth a little more if and when you sell them.
There ought to be a way to do entire sets CHEAPER and quicker.
"spare change? Nahhhhh...never have any...sold it all on E-bay..." see? My Auctions "Got any 1800's gold?"
I don't believe the Registry program has much of a net effect on PCGS's bottom line, but I'm certain that it has a positive effect on DHRC's bottom line. I would also expect it has a huge negative effect on whatever division is responsible for the overhead associated with the Forums and the program maintenance necessary for the Registry.
I have a few sets up, but I'm considering taking one or two down because I have some better coins in NGC holders and I'm tired of holding duplicates.
I also have a set in progress that is not registered at PCGS for two reasons: Some of the coins are NGC and I'm tired of the crossover game AND the PCGS Type sets aren't weighted which means a PF69 modern lincoln cent would beat out an MS68 trade dollar. I don't happen to like the modern cheap stuff and don't want to collect it (but to each their own). That's a serious disadvantage in an unweighted type set, so I choose not to register it here.
Karl - Take it easy, there. You are acting like PCGS has a big brother bully that just swiped your lunch. Speaking of marketing ploys (my profession, so I'm keen to notice), what do you think this forum is? Pretty successful, I might add.
OK, back to the topic at hand. Boston had some good comments there - it's a personal thing. For me (like Lucy said), it is a modern day coin album. The PCGS type set is close to my interpretation of a complete type (though I disagree that the 1907 $10 rolled edge is a circulated Type). Will I finish it? Who knows... but it's fun to build it. I don't care about having the best, but all of my coins are special to me. Does it bother me that I can't add my NGC coins to the set? Sure. Will I cross just to get into the registry? Probably not.
My idea for PCGS is to allow NGC and ANACS coins to be added to the registry. Same weighting rules apply. BUT, to give preference for PCGS (after all, it is their registry), PGCS-only sets will be listed first and mixed slab sets cannot qualify for the Top 5. That way, if you want to go for #1, have at it with the PCGS slabs. But for me, I could list all of my slabbed coins. PCGS still gets tremendous benefits from my visits to the site.
Tom
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981 Current focus 1855 date type set
This forum is a marketing ploy for a slabbing company? I guess it didn't work on me, I've been collecting since 1980 and I'm still "slabless". I think those things and the prices the coins in them bring are completely ridiculous. I recently saw a 2000P cent in a slab sell for $70...absolutely ridiculous since I could have an entire bag of 5,000 coins just like it for the same price, and could pick out of that bag at least 500 coins that would grade the same (if anyone could afford to have 500 coins slabbed).
It rounds down to this: Grading is subjective. There is a set of rules to follow that tell you to judge a coin by this, by that. Why should I want to pay someone ten times what a nice holder costs to stick their subjectiveness on my coin for permenancy in an oversized holder that frankly takes up way too much space? I just don't understand, and I guess I'm missing the genetical make-up to see any advantage in it.
One arguement states, "it allows a standard for your family to be able to sell your coins in case you die." - BAH! At over $20 a coin, there wouldn't be anything left of my collection if I tried to set a standard with every coin I collected. Anyhow, someone who is organized and current with their collection can keep up with organizing their collection in a way that it won't be a nightmare for their estate trustee.
Another states, "it protects the coins." - BAH! No better than many, many other types of holders that don't cost over $20 each.
Another states, "it represents a third party opinion of grade." - Yeah? What's the point? If a person buys the coin for the coin and not the label in the piece of plastic, the label is unimportant in the first place. Who needs someone else's opinion if they can see the coin right there and then?
I just don't get it. I'm not going to bash those who decide to play the game, but I see no purpose in handing over my coin money to have someone else do what I am perfectly capable of doing - grade my coins.
hey blade, i do NOT believe that the forum is a marketing ploy. the registry IS. what's the difference? this forum is , as far as i have ever been able to tell, TOTALLY open to opinions differing from pcgs. in this regard, i have nothing but positive things to say about pcgs, that they will permit me to say anything negative about their service i wish to say. i repeat, KUDOS to pcgs for sponsoring this forum, which allows free exchange of ideas & opinions regarding their service. (ie. i am not aware that they censor threads, other than those deemed to have offensive language). however, the registry by pcgs's definition disallows opinions differing from that of pcgs
<< <i>dorkcarl: >>
that's dorkKarl!
<< <i>Man you are proving to me that you are a Dork. >>
i don't deny it!!!
<< <i>For your information the coins that I had before even knowing the Registry exisited were 90% PCGS and 10% NGC with maybe a couple others thrown in. Crap thier Registry Marketing stratagy hit myself before I even knew the Registry existed. >>
ken, again, i honestly think you've missed my point. i am saying that if you are buying coins STRICTLY for the purpose of fulfilling the registry , then you are collecting SLABBED GRADES, & the coins themselves are secondary! i do not believe you are doing that, because you imply you bought slabbed coins w/out regard to the registry.
bottom line is: i don't like or dislike the registry. it's just another marketing gimmick that is "there". it's like TV commercials and highway billboards. my concern is that if you decide to pursue slabs solely for the purpose of assembling a "registry" collection, just be aware that it is a MARKETING thing. THEN decide whether you like it or not. it's like collecting beenie babies or cabbage patch dolls. if you want to, FINE, as long as you realize you are collecting something with purely marketing intent behind it.
Most all the coins I buy are raw and I really have only a few in holders, ( except my RPM collection of Lincoln Cents ) . That is why I do not have a registery set, but I sure like going to look at some of the sets that are posted makes one feel good that people like to show off what they have, I know I do, Feels good when someone actually looks and appreciates what you have collected, one of the reasons I became a numist, well anyway done lost my train of thought.
The statement was general and appeared to include all Registry Members. To some extent I agree with your statement but certainly it does not apply to most collectors. Will not mention certain series that I believe the statement refers too.
After spending a couple of days typing this up, I was not sure if i wanted to post this. I went out to the kitchen to get a snack and noticed someone, probably one of my kids, had made rice crispy bars. And there are only a couple left but have noticed they forgot to add chocolate chip frosting and peanut butter. To me, rice crispy bars aren't rice crispy bars without peanut butter and chocolate. So now I must introvise if that is the word for it. I grab the peanut butter and chocolate ice cream syrup and the rest is history as I munch it down. But I don't know if what I"ve written is on the up and up or how much truth is in it so here it goes.....
I like and dislike the registry for several reasons. First, it's only common sense that PCGS has benefited from it’s PCGS Registry but wasn’t this an answer to many collectors who wanted a competition or a place to show their stuff or to meet other collectors who share their interest. I for one believe the Registry, whether it is PCGS or NGC, has benefited our hobby greatly. Aside from the above reasons, the registry has brought in the big spenders, which has fueled the search for illusive dates for every series. Dealers, sellers, collectors, coin show coordinators, auction houses have all benefited from this basic animal instinct that thrives in each of us, the drive of human competition even if it’s against oneself. We all want to thrive to be a better person or collector. The fact that there are well to do collectors out there who have the resources to compete in the registry should be by no means a detrimental road block to the low income collector who cannot compete, that is, by PCGS standards and rules. This is envy at it’s worst. Collectors crying foul, I can’t afford to compete so therefore the system is crooked and I will say anything that will ultimately help to get my way to compete. One of the things that bothered me the most was the fact that some coins I needed for my collection have become very expensive because of the PCGS Registry. My collection has come to somewhat of a standstill because the market has changed and now the coins that were once affordable are now lost to the big spenders. At my age I don’t have the means or the education to make a career change to improve my life financially so this is just another bump in my road of life and I’ll just have to live with it. But there have been some compromises made that enable me to still enjoy the hobby. I am happy with the fact that I can rub mouse’s and communicate with the likes of great collectors and dealers in our hobby. I enjoy the fact that this hobby can entertain me and give me great satisfaction. While being at the bottom, if you want to call it that or being in the midst of interactions with the vast wide variety of people we have all met and shared our time and ideas with here in the forums, the PCGS or NGC registry have been great for everyone. But there is a gulf or gap here that divides the low income from the well to do collectors and that is the cost to compete, to get all your coins into a PCGS holder to compete. Granted, many high-grade coins have always been very expensive and that part of the competition can not be avoided, as it’s a fact of life. But at the same time for collectors who have gather their coins for their collections over a great number of years at a fraction of what they are valued at today are left out of the competition. I wouldn’t mind spending 2-3 grand to certify my collection if I had some guarantee that the coins would grade and certify. I don’t like the idea that I may be paying for an opinion that may not lead to a coin being certified. If it is found that a coin is not authentic or has been cleaned or altered or has AT toning, why should I be charged for something that doesn’t lead to the certification and encapsulation of a coin. I am aware that submissions are usually taken through a PCGS affiliated dealer but with the membership we can submit coins directly. I have heard about some collectors who were approached by a PCGS representative and after some examining of the collectors coins he was encouraged to have his collection certified but how long did that examination take and how high grade was that collection to begin with. Were there still drawbacks to paying for coins that didn’t get graded. With this given consideration. I would pay $5.00 per coin for such a service and if that coin passes the inspection then I would pay $10-$15 for certification cost that would include the initial $5 and not $30. So what we need here is some kind of stepping stone that reduces cost. And lastly, the other price factor that should have no relevance on how much a coin should be charge, is its value. Just because one coin may be 10x or 100x the worth of some common coins, this should not be a reason a coin gets charged for the higher amount of the certification process. Of course, a collector should insure a coin for it’s value through the PO but what does this have to do with getting the higher charge. I may end up answering this by saying that the extra cost probably helps cover PCGS guarantee with it’s certification standards but how many of us are actually playing a role in that aspect of the hobby. Sure if a coin is worth well above $500, whatever that limit may be, then some kind of insurance premium should be paid or maybe everyone should have this factored in all certification fees because everyone may need to use it. I don’t want to send in a 100 coins to get their lower fee and then find out that 30 of the 100 have substantial value. So now I need to send an additional grand to get my coins back? Then what's going to happen if 10 out of the 100 are body-bagged, will I still get the econo rate when only 90 are graded? Well, I think I’m just bla…blah…blap….blabbering on here about nothing so…… maybe I'll go get that last crispy bar before the kids wake up.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
i take issue with saying that slabbing has helped out the hobby. it has helped out the BUSINESS. and that is OK! as long as you realize it. i simply do not believe the hobby was in such a shambles that is often described before slabbing. he11, i was there!
i enjoyed reading your comments. having seen a lot of the hobby AND the business since 1970, i will selfishly say that anything that drives up the price of coins that i want , i automatically have a tendency to dislike. unfortunately thought, it is part of life.
your bias prevents you from an objective point of view which leads to pronouncements which can/can't be proven. a closed mind, which is what you have whenever "slab", "grading company", "registry set" or anything referring to them is mentioned, is only a hinderance to growth in any area of life.
as an example, i believe there are coins which have seen the light of day, collectors who are interacting with other collectors and new collectors entering the hobby as a direct result of grading services and set registries. that IS a benifit!!! were it not for this forum your expressed ideas about the hobby would be more limited than they currently are.
my saying for all that-----if one thing was different, NOTHING would be the same!! speculation on what may or may not be or have been is futile and leads to your obvious frustration with the state of the hobby today. collect as you choose. seek joy from the hobby instead of always questioning why other collectors do what they do. life ain't long enough for internal discord.
I don't like the current type set options. I enjoyed the 8-piece 20th century Gold Major Design Type Set, but that was about it. PCGS has no type set options that allow the collecting of strictly 19th century nongold coins (thereby avoiding the expensive 1790's stuff and the lethal pre-1834 gold). If you want to collect 19th century classics like large cents and Seated and Capped Bust coins, you have to go for the huge, unfinishable 1792-1964 set, which includes the Small Eagle Draped half, the Chain cent, lots of early gold, and other nasties. This is no option for the working-class collector like myself, unless he wants to spend a lifetime building it. I don't. My maximum attention span on a set so far has been five years.
There used to be a 1900-present Modern Type set that included the whole 20th century, but then they broke that up into subsets. I suppose that's OK, though. I lost interest in all the post-1964 stuff, anyway.
I would like to see a 19th century nongold or combined 19th/20th century nongold set. This allows most all of the classic types, avoids the nasty rich-boy stuff, and yet is still challenging. If you go for decent circulated grades on the early stuff (I chose F12 as a minimum when I did this set on my own, though my Draped half dime and dollar fell a bit short of that goal).
The toughest coins would be the Draped Bust, Heraldic Eagle pieces. (None of those deadly Small Eagles to worry about, and the Gobrecht dollar should be optional).
A Seated type set would be cool. I sold just such a set (mixed services, mostly ANACS) to oreville last year. I believe it was 23 coins. It included the 20c piece and the Trade dollar, too.
I'm now without a set registered until I do the 2c proof thing, if I take the plunge on that. When the type set options improve, I'll be back to that.
This was the combined 19th/20th century nongold set I did on my own before I switched over to the Registry. Note it's a bit streamlined in some of the modern stuff- just two Ikes, for example- a normal design of your choice and a Bicentennial design. The set ran to 89 pieces and the hardest coin was the Draped Bust, Heraldic Eagle half dime. When I did this set I was on a much smaller budget.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
good points, rob. the thing is that you can still assemble those sets. you just can't put them in the registry. and PCGS seems to be open to suggestion about future sets. with regards to the complete type set, it's indeed a daunting task. my approach is to work backwards. modern type, then twentieth century and then complete type. i already have a scattering of U.S. type but the progress i would make if i only focused on a complete type set would make a snail look like a comet!!!!!!!
i'm a hostage of my working class roots and don't mind the limited budget. it helps me be more selective with the selections i make. lately i've been directing more money towards raw moderns, thus improving my "graders eye" and collection at the same time.
I believe the original question was "Why don't more people register their collections?"
For me: 1) Collecting isn't competitive for me so I have no need to be number 1, 2, 3 or any other rank. 2) The input and update process are too tedious given my other uses of my time and 3) I collect coins and thus don't have a "branded set" of PCGS coins
I don't fault PCGS for creating the program as I think it is an innovative twist that many collectors seem to enjoy. That seems to be a positive influence in the collecting community IMO. If some want to collect coins housed in certain brand slabs or slab labels at or above a minimum grade, that's fine with me, it is still collecting. I don't seem to recall any criticism of Condor 101 for collecting slabs (buy the slab not the coin). The broad range of collectors and collections make the hobby even more interesting for me and this forum illustrates that point in almost every thread.
How else would we see Russ and Dorkkarl vehemently disagree on one issue and then three threads later passionately agree on another point?
<< <i>your bias prevents you from an objective point of view which leads to pronouncements which can/can't be proven. a closed mind, which is what you have whenever "slab", "grading company", "registry set" or anything referring to them is mentioned, is only a hinderance to growth in any area of life. >>
guys, guys, guys, i just think you are NOT catching my point. i simply do not have ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with someone collecting only slabs, or only registry coins, or only flame-broiled coins, or even flame-broiled whoppers, or whatever. i just think it is important for such a collector to be made aware that there IS a difference between buying slabs SOLELY for the certified grade, and buying a coin for how YOU think it grades (disregarding the service). THEY ARE DIFFERENT HOBBIES.
that's fine! that's great! nothing wrong with that at all!!! but COLLECTING SLABBED GRADES does not equal COLLECTING COINS, and that is simply the point i'm trying to make.
again, it is important to recognize that i am suggesting this distinction only in the case where a slab is bought SOLELY because of the grade typed on it, with total disregard for the encapsulated coin.
WHY is this pertinent to the question: "Why don't more people register their collections?"
simply this. IF you can accept that they are 2 different hobbies, (1) collecting coins and (2) collecting slabs, then my contention would be that there are far, far fewer members of hobby (2) than hobby (1), which is my answer to the question
you sell many of us short. i think we understand what we're doing. as to your definition of what constitutes collecting coins, well, i guess you're entitled to that. i collect coins and it just so happens that some of them are encapsulated. i have far more raw coins, though.
guys, guys, guys, i just think you are NOT catching my point.
perhaps if you weren't so busy trying to point out where collectors such as myself are erring, your point would be easier to comprehend. instead of criticizing others why not speak to the merits of your own collecting habits.
<< <i>you sell many of us short. i think we understand what we're doing. >>
keets, i don't think i'm selling YOU short, since as i said, & you said too (in a roundabout way) YOU are not buying coins SOLELY for the slabbed grade. but SOME FOLKS ARE. i'm sorry, but i just do not believe that buying slabs w/ total disregard for the coin is "coin-collecting". i will not buy that idea.
do i believe the majority of the folks on the forum are doing that? heck no. but if the other point of view is not presented, ie to consider "buying the coin" & not the slab, is to short-change those who entered the coin market knowing only how to buy plastic. THAT is not right, in my opinion.
i have NEVER tried to instruct anyone on the proper way to collect anything. but i am certain that it is injustice not to present other points of view that may show a different way to collect.
nor have i EVER said "do not buy an encapsulated coin". what i suggest is "do not buy an encapsulated coins SOLELY because of the certified grade"
i'm doing a piss-poor job of explainng myself, and apologize to those i've offended.
and lucybop, i stand by my statement, that collecting slabbed grades does not equal collecting coins, BUT there is NOTHING wrong with either of them.
Karl, then we agree to disagree. Cause Lucy buys coins, most are slabbed, whats in the slab? A coin. Lucy collects coins. Lucy buys cars, then car covers, whats in the car cover? A car. Hmmmm, Lucy collects records in sleeves, whats in the sleeve? A record. I could go on but, anyone that buys a slabbed coin still bought a coin and if they are collecting them, sounds like they are collecting coins to this HepKitty......
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
oldcameoproofsguy seys: <<..........Barber Proofs is that there are some really exeptional coins in NGC holders that I have to pass on......>> That's great because I collect some Barber Proofs too and I'm buying those really exeptional coins in NGC holders that he's having to pass on.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Here are some of my thoughts on different collectors' attitudes toward Registry participation (in no particular order):
Why?
Ego trip Competitive nature Socializing with other collectors Personal challenge Virtual sharing of collection Learning from experts
Why Not?
Uninterested/unimpressed with slabbed coins Collecting is a private pleasure Set definitions are unappealing Price to compete/complete impractical Intimidated by what’s already out there Collecting theme not reflected by any current set definition Disagrees with the weightings Doesn’t care to play the crossover game
i'm not a real good writer, but if i can manage to organize on paper what i'm trying to say in a non-offending manner, i'll take a shot at this again.
in the meantime, the bottom line is, & i hope will always be: collect what YOU enjoy collecting, & if your true to yourself, it doesn't matter one lick what someone else thinks
just be sure it really is what YOU want to collect & not what someone else says you should collect.
karl, as a collector for many years, not having bought a slabbed coin until 1998, I would like to point out some things for you to consider. I imagine everyone "gets" what you are trying to tell us, you keep making the point and refining it. I've made my feelings quite clear that the Registry is unimportant to me and if you want to participate do so, regardless of what others think. You finally got it, in your last post, when you stated, "it doesn't matter what someone else thinks". Well that someone else is you.
I seriously doubt that many, if any of us are into coin collecting to collect slabs. The vast majority of us will never be able to grade a coin correctly, regardless of the numerous admonitions of posters in here to learn to do so. Can we come close, of course. My personal experience with slab coins is that ANACS, PCGS, NGC almost always get the grades right and often times some of the others due to. Most of us should if confronted with two coins of the same series and equal quality would be well off to purchase the slabbed coin and I say this even though I hate those slabs. For pete's sake WE all realize the Registry is a marketing tool, that is what businesses do. We live in a marketing, tv commercial world. When people feel they are being talked down to, they rarely get your message.
There is no need whatsoever to keep hammering us with that point. BTW I enjoy your posts, keep them coming, but realize once you make your point, you don't need to beat us to death with it. Take the time to respect and understand that others are not the same type of collector as you, and enjoy their pursuits in coin collecting whatever it may be. I get a kick out of what others collect and how they do it.
hey mike, thanks for the input. i just always assume there are lots of "browsers" out there who never log on the forum & participate in discussion. i thought i was doing a crappy job of explaining myself.
BTW, anyone have any idea how many "hits" there are on the forum from non-registered users? i know i floated around, probably for a couple of years at least before logging on.
How much money have you slab bashers lost because you didnt buy the slab and thought you knew how to grade or authenticate using a picture? I will take PCGSs word over any of you any day of the week(multiple opinions over yours)! I buy a lot of coins over the net! Tell the truth!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
Dorkkarl, you raise an interesting point about the forum "browsers." I browsed for 5-6 months before signing on. I really appreciate the fact that you consistently state your views with a tenacity that provokes thought and may create an occasional rub of other forum members. I find it healthy to challenge one another's views. You have been able to do this without resorting to name calling and demeaning and other juvenile antics. In fact, you seem to work very hard to not offend. These qualities keep me reading your posts. I finally got your point when you differentiated "collecting slabbed coins" from "collecting slab grade inserts." A point worth making.
<< <i>How much money have you slab bashers lost because you didnt buy the slab and thought you knew how to grade or authenticate using a picture? >>
i am not a "slab-basher" ("slab-cracker" is the right term...), but i can honestly say that i lost $1000 on 3 pcgs-slabbed coins, and i have never in my life lost that amount of money on any other 3 coins, raw or slabbed (see the buffalo-nickel thread elsewhere). not even close.
did it make me "hate slabs"? it sure did. at first. but i learned something critically important from this expensive lesson:
was it pcgs's fault that i lost $1000? absolutely not. it was MY fault because at the time, i was a buyer of plastic, and did not take the reponsibility upon myself of grading coins before i bought them. i also had not learned the risks of buying sight-unseen, certified or not.
i freely admit that i have also lost $ with overgraded raw coins (i've been lucky & never burned yet on a bogus coin). with all these mistakes, i like to believe i have learned from them. but honesty should go both ways. i do not believe i'm the only one who has bought a slabbed coin, & ended up selling it for significantly less than i paid for it.
i guess this & the previous posts from wallstreetman belong in a different thread, though.
How much money have you slab bashers lost because you didnt buy the slab and thought you knew how to grade or authenticate using a picture? I will take PCGSs word over any of you any day of the week(multiple opinions over yours)! I buy a lot of coins over the net! Tell the truth!
I'm sort of a slab basher in the sense that I get annoyed at 3rd-party grading as opposed to the piece of plastic that can be used to protect the coin.
When I first resumed collecting, after a long hiatus from my childhood years, I basically had to re-tool and re-learn just about everything. I didn't know about 3rd-party grading then, and bought raw. Big mistake. The only ameliorating aspect is that what I was spending then is a mere fraction of my coin budget these days, and so my losses can be applied towards tuition at Coin U.
In my specialty areas, I am not afraid to buy raw -- as long as it is sight-seen or I have a return policy. This policy of mine, btw, extends also to slabbed coins. Even by PCGS, NGC and ANACS. The quality of the coins that I want cannot be expressed by mere technical grade alone. So, in essence, nearly all coins I buy I just try to assume they're in Kointainers...
As for my grading, I find that I do an acceptable job of hitting the grades that the services will give.
i freely admit that i have also lost $ with overgraded raw coins (i've been lucky & never burned yet on a bogus coin). with all these mistakes, i like to believe i have learned from them. but honesty should go both ways. i do not believe i'm the only one who has bought a slabbed coin, & ended up selling it for significantly less than i paid for it.
I'm pretty sure I've bought overgraded slabs before, but I can't offhand remember any specific coin. I know that I've declined many overgraded coins -- yes, including PCGS slabs. It happens. When a service grades so many coins, and grading is done by fallible humans, then we're bound to get variability in grading. Call it the law of averages.
<< <i>I bet a good portion of these people will never submit and register because they know half their set will be bodybagged! Should have bought certified! >>
wallstreetman, i don't understand your comment! i have bought many coins that i know would get bb'd for sure! there's nothing wrong with that! (as long as you realize it before agreeing to a price)
Taking into account the Registy is only for coins in PCGS slabs...
I think most people with a few or low graded coins wouldn't bother because they "didn't think it was good enough"
For people with high end sets it I think it could distract from the owners appreciation of the set.
If your collection is reduced to a numeric value in front of the public what is the point in that?
Then the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality comes in to play. What somebody has a higher number? Then you need to upgrade even it means getting rid of that really pretty 66 and buying a 67.
Since with the Registry it comes down to an ordinal number, instead of the grade for each coin maybe the rankings should just be on how much you spent on it?
<< <i>I bet a good portion of these people will never submit and register because they know half their set will be bodybagged! Should have bought certified! >>
It's not hard at all to tell a coin that's been "monkeyed with," nor is it hard to discern between grades in MY OPINION, which is what grading is. I don't NEED a third party to tell me how they grade for me to know how much money I will pay for a coin. "Should have bough certified" smacks of a blanket statement admitting that a person knows little or nothing about coins, and simply buys the plastic for what it says. Stomach turning to think that someone would take a company's blanket opinion (a company that's out to gain capital) over that of someone who might have been in the business or in the market for 50 years and doesn't like plastic.
And, by the way, it's really difficult to take photographs through obnoxious slabs - another one of the many reasons why I don't like them.
1. They're unattractive. 2. They're oversized. 3. The grade on them is basically meaningless to me. 4. Hard to photograph through. 5. Endanger the coin when you try to remove them. 6. Usually more costly than "raw" coins, and for no logical reason. 7. An expensive service with a lot of unearned reputation.
Comments
<< <i>ignoring the point is not a suitable answer to my very simple question >>
Ignoring what point? You mean your off topic question that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject of this thread?
<< <i>here it is again: i simply want to know whether or not you believe the registry program impacts pcgs's bottom line. >>
NOTE: Let me apologize to the originator of this thread for contributing to the off topic stupidity - born of his hatred of PCGS and his bigotry toward all us lesser collectors who choose to participate in the registry - that Karl has chosen to inject in to this discussion.
In answer to your question, Karl, based on CU's financial reports, the registry doesn't seem to be doing dick for the bottom line. So, what was your point again?
Russ, NCNE
the point is very simply that. the registry is marketing strategy. nothing more, in my opinion.
i "hate" slabs no more than i "hate" being told that, in a discussion over a coin's grade, my opinion does not matter at all if the coin is slabbed.
but i LIKE coins.
K S
Dorkkarl is right on. It's strictly a marketing gimmick, but if people like, all the more power to them.
Dave
Someone in this forum wrote that the registry is -- I'm paraphrasing -- merely just a tool, with no political agenda and no morality. It serves no masters and all masters at the same time.
If we're talking about the PCGS Set Registry, then it serves PCGS. If it's the Legend Collection of Trade Dollars, then it serves Legend. If it is the WWBillman Collection of ???, then it serves Bill. What we make of it, or not make of it, is a choice. We can do it right -- insert your opinion on what ``right'' is -- or we can do it wrong -- again, insert your opinion here. Or, we can not do it at all.
Those who've been saying that comments like the above is off-topic isn't entirely correct. The original topic is to inquire why more folks don't register. The investigation into the why's and wherefore's of the question of registering certainly should involve getting into what some people feel is wrong with the registry concept, and thus an explanation of those feelings.
In a nutshell, I think Laura hit the issue on the head: that it's too difficult for gregarious people to understand introversion. You really don't need a rational explanation to this, because 100% of us are not 100% rational 100% of the time.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Man you are proving to me that you are a Dork.
For your information the coins that I had before even knowing the Registry exisited were 90% PCGS and 10% NGC with maybe a couple others thrown in. Crap thier Registry Marketing stratagy hit myself before I even knew the Registry existed.
Get Real with your thoughts on the Registry. If you do not like it fine. But some of the Off the Wall comments are just that, Off the Wall.
Hate to put posts like this up but the comments deserved the reply.
Ken
Sellers can be found.
Supplies can be reasonably be determined.
Street values can be estimated by grade.
Some people prefer to keep it private, others like to share......................................
The bottom line: Enjoy it for yourself. Enjoy it with others. The program promotes collecting, disscussion,
and brings people together who would never meet, otherwise.
I believe there are still some bugs in the system. It's just going to take time, the advice of the gurus, and those who inquire, to smooth out the rough spots. Acceptance
usually comes slowly.
The ONLY thing I DO NOT like about PCGS is that their holders and service costs more and takes longer. I already have 7 of the 76 spots filled but 2 are graded by someone else and the others are raw. Now - it's not just the cost and the problem of finding these rare puppies - you gotta "pay the piper" too....PCGS that is. And, of course, they are the MOST expensive....OF COURSE!
THE ONLY redeeming factor is that the sets are indeed worth a little more if and when you sell them.
There ought to be a way to do entire sets CHEAPER and quicker.
see? My Auctions "Got any 1800's gold?"
I have a few sets up, but I'm considering taking one or two down because I have some better coins in NGC holders and I'm tired of holding duplicates.
I also have a set in progress that is not registered at PCGS for two reasons: Some of the coins are NGC and I'm tired of the crossover game AND the PCGS Type sets aren't weighted which means a PF69 modern lincoln cent would beat out an MS68 trade dollar. I don't happen to like the modern cheap stuff and don't want to collect it (but to each their own). That's a serious disadvantage in an unweighted type set, so I choose not to register it here.
OK, back to the topic at hand. Boston had some good comments there - it's a personal thing. For me (like Lucy said), it is a modern day coin album. The PCGS type set is close to my interpretation of a complete type (though I disagree that the 1907 $10 rolled edge is a circulated Type). Will I finish it? Who knows... but it's fun to build it. I don't care about having the best, but all of my coins are special to me. Does it bother me that I can't add my NGC coins to the set? Sure. Will I cross just to get into the registry? Probably not.
My idea for PCGS is to allow NGC and ANACS coins to be added to the registry. Same weighting rules apply. BUT, to give preference for PCGS (after all, it is their registry), PGCS-only sets will be listed first and mixed slab sets cannot qualify for the Top 5. That way, if you want to go for #1, have at it with the PCGS slabs. But for me, I could list all of my slabbed coins. PCGS still gets tremendous benefits from my visits to the site.
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
It rounds down to this: Grading is subjective. There is a set of rules to follow that tell you to judge a coin by this, by that. Why should I want to pay someone ten times what a nice holder costs to stick their subjectiveness on my coin for permenancy in an oversized holder that frankly takes up way too much space? I just don't understand, and I guess I'm missing the genetical make-up to see any advantage in it.
One arguement states, "it allows a standard for your family to be able to sell your coins in case you die." - BAH! At over $20 a coin, there wouldn't be anything left of my collection if I tried to set a standard with every coin I collected. Anyhow, someone who is organized and current with their collection can keep up with organizing their collection in a way that it won't be a nightmare for their estate trustee.
Another states, "it protects the coins." - BAH! No better than many, many other types of holders that don't cost over $20 each.
Another states, "it represents a third party opinion of grade." - Yeah? What's the point? If a person buys the coin for the coin and not the label in the piece of plastic, the label is unimportant in the first place. Who needs someone else's opinion if they can see the coin right there and then?
I just don't get it. I'm not going to bash those who decide to play the game, but I see no purpose in handing over my coin money to have someone else do what I am perfectly capable of doing - grade my coins.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
<< <i>dorkcarl: >>
that's dorkKarl!
<< <i>Man you are proving to me that you are a Dork. >>
i don't deny it!!!
<< <i>For your information the coins that I had before even knowing the Registry exisited were 90% PCGS and 10% NGC with maybe a couple others thrown in. Crap thier Registry Marketing stratagy hit myself before I even knew the Registry existed. >>
ken, again, i honestly think you've missed my point. i am saying that if you are buying coins STRICTLY for the purpose of fulfilling the registry , then you are collecting SLABBED GRADES, & the coins themselves are secondary! i do not believe you are doing that, because you imply you bought slabbed coins w/out regard to the registry.
bottom line is: i don't like or dislike the registry. it's just another marketing gimmick that is "there". it's like TV commercials and highway billboards. my concern is that if you decide to pursue slabs solely for the purpose of assembling a "registry" collection, just be aware that it is a MARKETING thing. THEN decide whether you like it or not. it's like collecting beenie babies or cabbage patch dolls. if you want to, FINE, as long as you realize you are collecting something with purely marketing intent behind it.
K S
Robbi Hunsucker
Sorry about the screw up on the name.
The statement was general and appeared to include all Registry Members. To some extent I agree with your statement but certainly it does not apply to most collectors. Will not mention certain series that I believe the statement refers too.
Ken
for you:
K S
ice cream syrup and the rest is history as I munch it down. But I don't know if what I"ve written is on the up and up or how much truth is in it so here it goes.....
I like and dislike the registry for several reasons. First, it's only common sense that PCGS has benefited from it’s PCGS Registry but wasn’t this an answer to many collectors who wanted a competition or a place to show their stuff or to meet other collectors who share their interest. I for one believe the Registry, whether it is PCGS or NGC, has benefited our hobby greatly. Aside from the above reasons, the registry has brought in the big spenders, which has fueled the search for illusive dates for every series. Dealers, sellers, collectors, coin show coordinators, auction houses have all benefited from this basic animal instinct that thrives in each of us, the drive of human competition even if it’s against oneself. We all want to thrive to be a better person or collector. The fact that there are well to do collectors out there who have the resources to compete in the registry should be by no means a detrimental road block to the low income collector who cannot compete, that is, by PCGS standards and rules. This is envy at it’s worst. Collectors crying foul, I can’t afford to compete so therefore the system is crooked and I will say anything that will ultimately help to get my way to compete. One of the things that bothered me the most was the fact that some coins I needed for my collection have become very expensive because of the PCGS Registry. My collection has come to somewhat of a standstill because the market has changed and now the coins that were once affordable are now lost to the big spenders. At my age I don’t have the means or the education to make a career change to improve my life financially so this is just another bump in my road of life and I’ll just have to live with it. But there have been some compromises made that enable me to still enjoy the hobby. I am happy with the fact that I can rub mouse’s and communicate with the likes of great collectors and dealers in our hobby. I enjoy the fact that this hobby can entertain me and give me great satisfaction. While being at the bottom, if you want to call it that or being in the midst of interactions with the vast wide variety of people we have all met and shared our time and ideas with here in the forums, the PCGS or NGC registry have been great for everyone.
But there is a gulf or gap here that divides the low income from the well to do collectors and that is the cost to compete, to get all your coins into a PCGS holder to compete. Granted, many high-grade coins have always been very expensive and that part of the competition can not be avoided, as it’s a fact of life. But at the same time for collectors who have gather their coins for their collections over a great number of years at a fraction of what they are valued at today are left out of the competition. I wouldn’t mind spending 2-3 grand to certify my collection if I had some guarantee that the coins would grade and certify. I don’t like the idea that I may be paying for an opinion that may not lead to a coin being certified. If it is found that a coin is not authentic or has been cleaned or altered or has AT toning, why should I be charged for something that doesn’t lead to the certification and encapsulation of a coin. I am aware that submissions are usually taken through a PCGS affiliated dealer but with the membership we can submit coins directly. I have heard about some collectors who were approached by a PCGS representative and after some examining of the collectors coins he was encouraged to have his collection certified but how long did that examination take and how high grade was that collection to begin with. Were there still drawbacks to paying for coins that didn’t get graded. With this given consideration. I would pay $5.00 per coin for such a service and if that coin passes the inspection then I would pay $10-$15 for certification cost that would include the initial $5 and not $30. So what we need here is some kind of stepping stone that reduces cost. And lastly, the other price factor that should have no relevance on how much a coin should be charge, is its value. Just because one coin may be 10x or 100x the worth of some common coins, this should not be a reason a coin gets charged for the higher amount of the certification process. Of course, a collector should insure a coin for it’s value through the PO but what does this have to do with getting the higher charge. I may end up answering this by saying that the extra cost probably helps cover PCGS guarantee with it’s certification standards but how many of us are actually playing a role in that aspect of the hobby. Sure if a coin is worth well above $500, whatever that limit may be, then some kind of insurance premium should be paid or maybe everyone should have this factored in all certification fees because everyone may need to use it. I don’t want to send in a 100 coins to get their lower fee and then find out that 30 of the 100 have substantial value. So now I need to send an additional grand to get my coins back? Then what's going to happen if 10 out of the 100 are body-bagged, will I still get the econo rate when only 90 are graded? Well, I think I’m just bla…blah…blap….blabbering on here about nothing so…… maybe I'll go get that last crispy bar before the kids wake up.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
i enjoyed reading your comments. having seen a lot of the hobby AND the business since 1970, i will selfishly say that anything that drives up the price of coins that i want , i automatically have a tendency to dislike. unfortunately thought, it is part of life.
K S
<< <i>It amazes me that outgoing people just can't grasp how or why private people exist. >>
That's a pretty good line. And why everyone on this thread catches their breath, I thought I would just ruminate on it alittle.
your bias prevents you from an objective point of view which leads to pronouncements which can/can't be proven. a closed mind, which is what you have whenever "slab", "grading company", "registry set" or anything referring to them is mentioned, is only a hinderance to growth in any area of life.
as an example, i believe there are coins which have seen the light of day, collectors who are interacting with other collectors and new collectors entering the hobby as a direct result of grading services and set registries. that IS a benifit!!! were it not for this forum your expressed ideas about the hobby would be more limited than they currently are.
my saying for all that-----if one thing was different, NOTHING would be the same!! speculation on what may or may not be or have been is futile and leads to your obvious frustration with the state of the hobby today. collect as you choose. seek joy from the hobby instead of always questioning why other collectors do what they do. life ain't long enough for internal discord.
al h.
There used to be a 1900-present Modern Type set that included the whole 20th century, but then they broke that up into subsets. I suppose that's OK, though. I lost interest in all the post-1964 stuff, anyway.
I would like to see a 19th century nongold or combined 19th/20th century nongold set. This allows most all of the classic types, avoids the nasty rich-boy stuff, and yet is still challenging. If you go for decent circulated grades on the early stuff (I chose F12 as a minimum when I did this set on my own, though my Draped half dime and dollar fell a bit short of that goal).
The toughest coins would be the Draped Bust, Heraldic Eagle pieces. (None of those deadly Small Eagles to worry about, and the Gobrecht dollar should be optional).
A Seated type set would be cool. I sold just such a set (mixed services, mostly ANACS) to oreville last year. I believe it was 23 coins. It included the 20c piece and the Trade dollar, too.
I'm now without a set registered until I do the 2c proof thing, if I take the plunge on that. When the type set options improve, I'll be back to that.
This was the combined 19th/20th century nongold set I did on my own before I switched over to the Registry. Note it's a bit streamlined in some of the modern stuff- just two Ikes, for example- a normal design of your choice and a Bicentennial design. The set ran to 89 pieces and the hardest coin was the Draped Bust, Heraldic Eagle half dime. When I did this set I was on a much smaller budget.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
i'm a hostage of my working class roots and don't mind the limited budget. it helps me be more selective with the selections i make. lately i've been directing more money towards raw moderns, thus improving my "graders eye" and collection at the same time.
al h.
For me:
1) Collecting isn't competitive for me so I have no need to be number 1, 2, 3 or any other rank.
2) The input and update process are too tedious given my other uses of my time
and 3) I collect coins and thus don't have a "branded set" of PCGS coins
I don't fault PCGS for creating the program as I think it is an innovative twist that many collectors seem to enjoy. That seems to be a positive influence in the collecting community IMO. If some want to collect coins housed in certain brand slabs or slab labels at or above a minimum grade, that's fine with me, it is still collecting. I don't seem to recall any criticism of Condor 101 for collecting slabs (buy the slab not the coin). The broad range of collectors and collections make the hobby even more interesting for me and this forum illustrates that point in almost every thread.
How else would we see Russ and Dorkkarl vehemently disagree on one issue and then three threads later passionately agree on another point?
<< <i>your bias prevents you from an objective point of view which leads to pronouncements which can/can't be proven. a closed mind, which is what you have whenever "slab", "grading company", "registry set" or anything referring to them is mentioned, is only a hinderance to growth in any area of life. >>
guys, guys, guys, i just think you are NOT catching my point. i simply do not have ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with someone collecting only slabs, or only registry coins, or only flame-broiled coins, or even flame-broiled whoppers, or whatever. i just think it is important for such a collector to be made aware that there IS a difference between buying slabs SOLELY for the certified grade, and buying a coin for how YOU think it grades (disregarding the service). THEY ARE DIFFERENT HOBBIES.
that's fine! that's great! nothing wrong with that at all!!! but COLLECTING SLABBED GRADES does not equal COLLECTING COINS, and that is simply the point i'm trying to make.
again, it is important to recognize that i am suggesting this distinction only in the case where a slab is bought SOLELY because of the grade typed on it, with total disregard for the encapsulated coin.
WHY is this pertinent to the question: "Why don't more people register their collections?"
simply this. IF you can accept that they are 2 different hobbies, (1) collecting coins and (2) collecting slabs, then my contention would be that there are far, far fewer members of hobby (2) than hobby (1), which is my answer to the question
K S
you sell many of us short. i think we understand what we're doing. as to your definition of what constitutes collecting coins, well, i guess you're entitled to that. i collect coins and it just so happens that some of them are encapsulated. i have far more raw coins, though.
guys, guys, guys, i just think you are NOT catching my point.
perhaps if you weren't so busy trying to point out where collectors such as myself are erring, your point would be easier to comprehend. instead of criticizing others why not speak to the merits of your own collecting habits.
al h.
<< <i>but COLLECTING SLABBED GRADES does not equal COLLECTING COINS >>
Come to Lucy's house for Halloween and just as Charlie Brown got, so shall the HepKitty give you, a big rock!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>you sell many of us short. i think we understand what we're doing. >>
keets, i don't think i'm selling YOU short, since as i said, & you said too (in a roundabout way) YOU are not buying coins SOLELY for the slabbed grade. but SOME FOLKS ARE. i'm sorry, but i just do not believe that buying slabs w/ total disregard for the coin is "coin-collecting". i will not buy that idea.
do i believe the majority of the folks on the forum are doing that? heck no. but if the other point of view is not presented, ie to consider "buying the coin" & not the slab, is to short-change those who entered the coin market knowing only how to buy plastic. THAT is not right, in my opinion.
i have NEVER tried to instruct anyone on the proper way to collect anything. but i am certain that it is injustice not to present other points of view that may show a different way to collect.
nor have i EVER said "do not buy an encapsulated coin". what i suggest is "do not buy an encapsulated coins SOLELY because of the certified grade"
i'm doing a piss-poor job of explainng myself, and apologize to those i've offended.
and lucybop, i stand by my statement, that collecting slabbed grades does not equal collecting coins, BUT there is NOTHING wrong with either of them.
K S
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<<..........Barber Proofs is that there are some really exeptional coins in NGC holders that I have to pass on......>>
That's great because I collect some Barber Proofs too and I'm buying those really exeptional coins in NGC holders that he's having to pass on.
Why?
Ego trip
Competitive nature
Socializing with other collectors
Personal challenge
Virtual sharing of collection
Learning from experts
Why Not?
Uninterested/unimpressed with slabbed coins
Collecting is a private pleasure
Set definitions are unappealing
Price to compete/complete impractical
Intimidated by what’s already out there
Collecting theme not reflected by any current set definition
Disagrees with the weightings
Doesn’t care to play the crossover game
What others can y'all add?
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
<< <i>Karl, then we agree to disagree >>
ok, lucybop, i can buy that.
i'm not a real good writer, but if i can manage to organize on paper what i'm trying to say in a non-offending manner, i'll take a shot at this again.
in the meantime, the bottom line is, & i hope will always be: collect what YOU enjoy collecting, & if your true to yourself, it doesn't matter one lick what someone else thinks
just be sure it really is what YOU want to collect & not what someone else says you should collect.
K S
I seriously doubt that many, if any of us are into coin collecting to collect slabs. The vast majority of us will never be able to grade a coin correctly, regardless of the numerous admonitions of posters in here to learn to do so. Can we come close, of course. My personal experience with slab coins is that ANACS, PCGS, NGC almost always get the grades right and often times some of the others due to. Most of us should if confronted with two coins of the same series and equal quality would be well off to purchase the slabbed coin and I say this even though I hate those slabs. For pete's sake WE all realize the Registry is a marketing tool, that is what businesses do. We live in a marketing, tv commercial world. When people feel they are being talked down to, they rarely get your message.
There is no need whatsoever to keep hammering us with that point. BTW I enjoy your posts, keep them coming, but realize once you make your point, you don't need to beat us to death with it. Take the time to respect and understand that others are not the same type of collector as you, and enjoy their pursuits in coin collecting whatever it may be. I get a kick out of what others collect and how they do it.
BTW, anyone have any idea how many "hits" there are on the forum from non-registered users? i know i floated around, probably for a couple of years at least before logging on.
K S
<< <i>How much money have you slab bashers lost because you didnt buy the slab and thought you knew how to grade or authenticate using a picture? >>
i am not a "slab-basher" ("slab-cracker" is the right term...), but i can honestly say that i lost $1000 on 3 pcgs-slabbed coins, and i have never in my life lost that amount of money on any other 3 coins, raw or slabbed (see the buffalo-nickel thread elsewhere). not even close.
did it make me "hate slabs"? it sure did. at first. but i learned something critically important from this expensive lesson:
was it pcgs's fault that i lost $1000? absolutely not. it was MY fault because at the time, i was a buyer of plastic, and did not take the reponsibility upon myself of grading coins before i bought them. i also had not learned the risks of buying sight-unseen, certified or not.
i freely admit that i have also lost $ with overgraded raw coins (i've been lucky & never burned yet on a bogus coin). with all these mistakes, i like to believe i have learned from them. but honesty should go both ways. i do not believe i'm the only one who has bought a slabbed coin, & ended up selling it for significantly less than i paid for it.
i guess this & the previous posts from wallstreetman belong in a different thread, though.
K S
I'm sort of a slab basher in the sense that I get annoyed at 3rd-party grading as opposed to the piece of plastic that can be used to protect the coin.
When I first resumed collecting, after a long hiatus from my childhood years, I basically had to re-tool and re-learn just about everything. I didn't know about 3rd-party grading then, and bought raw. Big mistake. The only ameliorating aspect is that what I was spending then is a mere fraction of my coin budget these days, and so my losses can be applied towards tuition at Coin U.
In my specialty areas, I am not afraid to buy raw -- as long as it is sight-seen or I have a return policy. This policy of mine, btw, extends also to slabbed coins. Even by PCGS, NGC and ANACS. The quality of the coins that I want cannot be expressed by mere technical grade alone. So, in essence, nearly all coins I buy I just try to assume they're in Kointainers...
As for my grading, I find that I do an acceptable job of hitting the grades that the services will give.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I'm pretty sure I've bought overgraded slabs before, but I can't offhand remember any specific coin. I know that I've declined many overgraded coins -- yes, including PCGS slabs. It happens. When a service grades so many coins, and grading is done by fallible humans, then we're bound to get variability in grading. Call it the law of averages.
Sorry, I know this is off-topic!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>I bet a good portion of these people will never submit and register because they know half their set will be bodybagged! Should have bought certified! >>
wallstreetman, i don't understand your comment! i have bought many coins that i know would get bb'd for sure! there's nothing wrong with that! (as long as you realize it before agreeing to a price)
K S
and how and why and when they wish. If everyone wanted to be in the
Registry it would lose some of its panache.......wouldnt it?
Camelot
Taking into account the Registy is only for coins in PCGS slabs...
I think most people with a few or low graded coins wouldn't bother because they "didn't think it was good enough"
For people with high end sets it I think it could distract from the owners appreciation of the set.
If your collection is reduced to a numeric value in front of the public what is the point in that?
Then the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality comes in to play. What somebody has a higher number? Then you need to upgrade even it means getting rid of that really pretty 66 and buying a 67.
Since with the Registry it comes down to an ordinal number, instead of the grade for each coin maybe the rankings should just be on how much you spent on it?
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>I bet a good portion of these people will never submit and register because they know half their set will be bodybagged! Should have bought certified! >>
It's not hard at all to tell a coin that's been "monkeyed with," nor is it hard to discern between grades in MY OPINION, which is what grading is. I don't NEED a third party to tell me how they grade for me to know how much money I will pay for a coin. "Should have bough certified" smacks of a blanket statement admitting that a person knows little or nothing about coins, and simply buys the plastic for what it says. Stomach turning to think that someone would take a company's blanket opinion (a company that's out to gain capital) over that of someone who might have been in the business or in the market for 50 years and doesn't like plastic.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
1. They're unattractive.
2. They're oversized.
3. The grade on them is basically meaningless to me.
4. Hard to photograph through.
5. Endanger the coin when you try to remove them.
6. Usually more costly than "raw" coins, and for no logical reason.
7. An expensive service with a lot of unearned reputation.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.