1856 Flying Eagle Cent
ARCO
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I recently saw a very nice (didn't take time to look at it closely) 1856 Flying eagle cent in a local dealers inventory while I was looking for Barber Halves. It was listed in the $5K range and when I got home I surfed the net looking for info on its scarcity, cost etc...
Seems the coin is very popular, but in absolute terms is not terribly scarce given the price. From my reading it seems to be a pattern piece and that some pieces circulated. The coin in the display seemed to be at least XF grade.
Is this coin worth the money given that about 700 pieces or more are thought to exist? Is it counterfeited often? What is the best Grade (scarcest) to find the coin in?
Any comments from you experienced Flying Eagle buffs would be appreciated.
Tyler
Seems the coin is very popular, but in absolute terms is not terribly scarce given the price. From my reading it seems to be a pattern piece and that some pieces circulated. The coin in the display seemed to be at least XF grade.
Is this coin worth the money given that about 700 pieces or more are thought to exist? Is it counterfeited often? What is the best Grade (scarcest) to find the coin in?
Any comments from you experienced Flying Eagle buffs would be appreciated.
Tyler
0
Comments
True, it is a pattern but the history of the coin is fabulously famous in that the US Mint Director gave out the coin to the American public in a fair held outside the Mint to promote this sized coin (versus the large cent).
This coin has been so famous that auctioneers used to auction this coin FIRST just to get biddrs to show up on time and be present right from the beginning.
The coin, while technically a pattern, was also struck as a non proof coin and also fits perfectly in the flying eagle cent set of 1857 and 1858. Had this coin only been struck in proof then such coin might not have quite developed into one of the all-american classics it is today.
This coin should only be purchased in a PCGS, NGC, ICG or ANACS slab as authentication is a must.
This coin in EF or AU is the perfect grade to buy such a coin as it blends the best affordability with best presentation of the fabulous detail on the flying eagle.
Such coin has been a rock solid core of our hobby. This coin rarely goes down in value, so intense is the demand. This coin when purchased accurately for the grade is as safe as money in the bank and much safer than any stock investment but has increased in value at only 3% per year.
Look at the values in true EF condition in the Red Book since 1980:
1980 1,500
1981 1,750
1982 1,750
1983 1,750
1984 2,250
1985 2,400
1986 2,400
1987 2,600
1988 2,600
1989 2,750
1990 3,000
1991 3,200
1992 can't find book
1993 3,750
1994 4,000
1995 4,250
1996 4,400
1997 5,000
1998 don't have book
1999 5,750
2000 6,000
2001 5,850
2002 5,800
This coin never went down during the hobby downturns of 1980-1981 and 1990. It is a remarkable beacon of stability, although investors would be bored by such rates of returns.
I recommend such coin without hesitation.
Don't ever buy one raw unless you are sure of what you are doing OR the dealer will stand behind it. For 5K range, it's probably in the F/VF area.
I would not hesitate to buy one from my local dealer. He's a class act, but there are many dealers,sellers, and places I would not buy a raw one.
Check out rick snow's website for an accurate range of pricing for them.
www.indiancent.com
I think '56's are the cats meow! (check out my thread from a couple days ago).
I spent nearly 2 years looking at circulated slabbed ones before finally buying a PCGS VF25 one. I saw Lots of Anacs NET graded ones. Very few NGC ones. A few cruddy PCGS ones.They seem relatively common in high grades but difficult to find in circulated condition from my experience. It's not often that you will find a problem free circulated piece.
Any other ?'s, post or PM.
Are you a member of the Fly-In club!?
(shameless attempt at recruiting a new member)
ARCO: Have the dealer get it slabbed (ONLY by PCGS) and at that price ($5000?) , if it is at least VF-20 tell him you will accept it.
It could also be cleaned, damaged or overgraded. That was not stated by your dealer's guarantee.
Tell him you will pay the fee to have it slabbed. You can't lose this way.
Don't play games with this one.
Tell him you trust him but you want the coin verified by a third party for that kind of money.
PCGS is not the only reputable company out there!
ANACS will do just fine on it also. They are pickier than PCGS when it comes to these.
I have seen more than a couple circs in PCGS slabs that were terrible. Should have been bagged and would have been net graded by anacs. Corroded, rim dinged, etc!! They were terrible looking. I couldn't believe they were in PCGS slabs.
I would Not use NGC for the '56 though because as far as I know they will not differentiate between PF and MS as ANACS AND PCGS do.
The only reason I did not suggest ANACS is beause they will net grade the coin in case it is damaged. What if the coin is really EF or AU details but net graded VF because of a real problem with the coin then ARCO might have a problem?
I was thinking of the body bag aspect which gives ARCO an "out."
Does that make sense?
I have two 1856 flying eagle cents. One PCGS AU-50 and one ANACS (net graded beauty!). Yes indeed, I too stay away from NGC in this area.
Tyler
he could always agree to buy it in the anacs slab also so long as it is not net graded.
whats the story on your ANACS one???
I've seen nicer ANACS net graded ones than a few PCGS ones
got any pics!? of your AU50? that's what I've got! PCGS AU50 and VF25
1856 flying eagle cent obverse
prompting for me to sign in
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
The 1856 FE cent is easily considered one of the holy grails of coin collecting by non cent collectors and cent collectors alike. Even the dumping of huge hoards like the Becks hoard years ago or Jay Parrino's roll several years ago was considered an opportunity for '56 collectors not an event to fear.
always a thing of beauty!
that XF45 8/7 that Snow had would have matched your coin very well!!!
Oreville,
here are the shoddy attempts at close ups of the date and the word "OF"
pay close attention to the O....should be rectangular in shape inside
and the 5 in the date.!! The downward line (if you continued to draw it downward toward the rim) would bisect the ball on the five. The one side of the ball is flat too.
let us know if the one at the shop is real if you can!
The 1856 is one of my favorites too, especially the S3. I picked up a 1958 Redbook this summer. The price for a fine was $265. Still alot of money - my Dad (now 86) tells me he was making $100/month at that time, raising a family of 5!
I would agree with all that has been said and would add only this. They come around frequently enough in auctions that there is no reason to rush into purchasing one, especially if it doesn't "make your heart race". The coins I like are the ones where I can look at them and say, "Man, am I one lucky sucker to have this coin". The coin illustrated is one of them.
Good luck - post a pic if you buy it.
I happen to be a fanatical collector of mint state coins yet the 1856 flying eagle cent is the ONLY coin I ever desired in circulated grades! It runs contrary to my stated objectives and beliefs in collecting.
Something about the mystique of this coin that made me do this and I am not even a flying eagle cent or Indian head cent collector!!
As we speak I understand that there is an MS-66 FE 1856 going to the auctions in January and I understand that $100K is already the lowest amount it expects to sell for!
EERC currently has a PCGS65 for sale with a price recently of 60k (now POR). I bought mine on long term lay-away about 5 years ago from EERC...it took quite some time to pay it off.
If my recolletion is correct, the last time the MS66 sold was for 45K - EERC/Rick, can you confirm this figure??
Agree with the desirability in all grades. Last year I bought a EF for about $5500 in Denver. It was used as a trade-in a year later for a IHC I needed....never lost a nights sleep worrying about whether it was holding it's value!
Someday, when my ship really comes in, I'd like to collect all 10 varieties of the 1856. If you want to know more about them, get Snow's attribution guide.
John put in writing an unprecedented three year no questions asked full money back guarantee.
I do not think he would have done this on any other coin he ever sold. I sure woudn't!
Imagine if investors in Enron had a 3 year money back guarantee?
Excellent posts on a classic American rarity. I was lucky enough to buy one in MS65 a while back and its one of those coins that you just take out every so often and marvel at. Compare it to the large cent of 1856 and you will wonder how people ever carried those around.
Oreville - I posted images of all my mercury dimes. I know that you
will enjoy the 1920-s.
Joshua
It's been a slow night. I've been shooting pics trying suggestions by Shylock with the coolpix 995. After many iterations, here is a more accurate pic of the 1856 - especially the color. It's impossible to catch the proof-like quality in a photo - anyone have suggestions on how to do so??
If any one out there has photo tips, please let us all know... it makes sharing coins easier and more enjoyable.
G-4 $4000
VG-8 $4600
F-12 $5000
VF-20 $5250
EF-40 $5750
AU-50 $6500
MS-60 $7500
MS-63 $12500
MS-64 $20000
MS-65 $35000
You're on a roll with these revised images and I honestly can't wait to see the rest. Looks like you bought a new collection. I believe the only help for capturing mirrors is intensly close lighting, preferebaly head on from the camera lens. Easier said than done, but I have this Coin Optics tubular lighting thingy that is yours if you throw in the 2 S's. Just don't place the tenticles too close to the coin unless the eagle's wearing sunblock.
Here are the 2 side by side - the reverse is from the photo file w/o the new lighting used on the obverse - when I get the coin from the bank next time I'll photograph the reverse - forgot to do the reverse the other day!
I'm going to have to borrow Shylocks octopus lighting and try to catch the proof like surfaces - it's a problem on proofs too. I just hope he doesn't try to sell me the overgrown plastic lampshade as a solution......we've both tried it w/o success.
<< <i>I would Not use NGC for the '56 though because as far as I know they will not differentiate between PF and MS as ANACS AND PCGS do. >>
From what I understand PCGS no longer differentiates between MS and PF on these. This is a recent change in policy.
Nice circulated 1856 Flyers should look a lot like other dates in circulated condition. The surfaces should be a dull gray, which reflects the copper-nickel alloy. When copper nickel corrodes, it can turn black or it can take on this lifeless, dark brown color.