at what grade does the luster vanish
1907Quarter
Posts: 2,770
Just curious to get a statistic. On average, going downward from mint state, at what grade does the average coin basically lose all its luster? xf, vf?
0
Comments
grading pointer: % presence of luster is more important to the grade on bust coins & copper than presence of detail above vf-35.
K S
Here’s a wrinkle for you. Sometimes a weak strike can make a coin appear to be a lower grade than it is. Here’s a case in point. Years ago I purchased this 1796 dime (attached pictures) as a VF-30. By the strictest standards, the obverse hair detail would indicate that, but this coin was struck with a worn obverse die (very late date state) and for that reason the hair detail never was there. The obverse and the reverse both have a fair amount of mint luster in the protected areas.
What would it grade if I sent to PCGS? Someday I’ll have to find the answer to that when it comes out of my collection. I couldn’t see it coming back in less than an EF-40 holder, and don’t laugh, but I have seen coins that were NOT EVEN CLOSE to this piece in AU-55 holders. Care to speculate?
designset
Treasury Seals Type Set
You must remember that this was one of the first dimes the U.S. Mint made, and this one was from the first set of dies. Therefore a lot of them were less than perfect.
K S
variability in it's hardness (wear characteristics) and some individual variability in
the way that the coin wears. There are F's with traces of luster and AU's with none.
Generally in the clads the luster disappears in VF+, but some dates like the 1972-D
will keep it much longer and take longer to wear down.
Regardless, a very nice coin indeed.
Joe.
Edit: To answer the question, by EF-40 the luster is usually gone.
High end EF's may still show some luster. If they show a lot of luster they are usually AU.
Joe.
K S
With all due respece, Uncle Joe, if you have any early U.S. coins like this that you can't sell for AU Gray Sheet money, please contact me. I'm a buyer. I'm going to be out next week so don't dispair. If you can't sell them, I'll take them off your hands. No bull!!
Russ, NCNE
Joe.
A couple of weeks ago I had 1932-S quarter in PCGS MS-64. It had fully original surfaces and had never been dipped. The coin was not beautiful, but it was not ugly either. The first comment one collector made was, "It's a shame that coin is in the holder. It should have been dipped before it was put in there." OK then it would be white and duller and probably be ready for another dipping in a decade or so.
If you leave a natural coin alone and store it properly it won't change much in your lifetime. I've owned 1805 dime that I have pictured on the front page of this string for over 30 years, and it looks the same as the day I bought it. I've owned the 1796 for almost 20 years, and it has not changed either.
Some guys don't understand things even to that level. They think that these older white coins are original and have not been dipped. As long as collectors demand white coins, more coins are going to get dipped. And so long as some collectors go ga-ga over some types of toning, the more AT coins there will be. As so long as both mentalities continue more coins will be permanently down graded to suit poorly informed collector tastes.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
K S
I'll tell you a interesting story about dipping. About 5 years ago I had a 1796 dime in PCGS MS-62 holder. It was a beautiful coin with original blue toning. Back then PCGS used to undergrade early coins now and then because they really had not seen that many of them.
I really wanted to keep it, but at $7 to $8 grand I just couldn't afford to do that. I sold it a dealer who cracked it out and dipped it. I could have told him that was bad idea because the toning was really old and it was "set." Well several years later he told me that he had lost money on that piece.
Dhah!!! Well if you make bad choices bad things can happen. There might be original a white 1796 dime out there, but if there is it's one rare devil. If you expect to find one that has not been dipped I've got a few 1804 dollars that were really struck in 1804 to sell you from the Gallery Mint. The old collectors said it best: an old coin should look old.
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