Verified vs. Unverified Top Sets

wondercoin

A real simple solution to the potential concern.

Permit (not require) the top 5 sets to be "verified" by PCGS or NGC. A verified set gets a special * next to it in the registry attesting to the fact the owner has presented all the coins to PCGS or NGC for verification. Unverified sets do not get the *

Over time, people will expect the best sets to be verified and non-verified sets will be suspect. Five years from now (depending upon acceptance of this step), a set may not even be considered seriously until it has been verified by a grading company.

What do you think? Wondercoin

merz2

Wondercoin
I don't think it will fly.I for one wouldn't want to send in my set.I think I speak for the majority.

WWBillman

Sounds a bit like my idea in the other post But I do like your twist on not requiring it.

So of course I support it.

lincolnSence

WC - I support it, but it is a bit to much, to say nothing of the risk and expense. But, maybe a sample of the set randomly selected to satisfy PCGS. I would do that.

Spooly

It you are cheating you will never get the full benfits of the Registry anyway. Sending in 50 raw coins with inserts........ trying to get them pedigreed....... How fast do you think it would take Rick to call you?

braddick

How would the verification take place? Would this require owners to send their coins to PCGS?
I would have a problem doing that, otherwise I like this idea.

wondercoin

"How would the verification take place? Would this require owners to send their coins to PCGS?
I would have a problem doing that, otherwise I like this idea. "

Pat: PCGS handles pedigreeing and/or regrade of top sets every day. Sets are flowing through there regularly. So, why not add a verification * next to the #1, #2, #3 MS Indian sets just involved in the Showdown? And, as more sets filter through, add the verification * to them as well. Make sense? Wondercoin

DIMEMAN

This is totally rediculious!!! Stars no stars, it's a bunch of BS!! I'm so much against this whole line of cr@p I can't type in the words I want to say. Why are you few guys all of a sudden questioning collectors sets?
Everyone has to have the coin to enter the number (I know) if you cheat who are you really cheating.

I for one don't want my set in the mail to get "verified". If you don't think I have all of my coins in the holders come on down to my bank and I'll show them to you. Let's make it interesting say a $1000 a coin.
I'll pay 1G for every coin I don't have, you pay me 1G for everyone I do.

Please bring $78,000 with you to leave with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jon

python1

<< <i>Everyone has to have the coin to enter the number (I know) if you cheat who are you really cheating. >>



Ditto!

WWBillman

DIMEMAN,

This idea is not a lack of trust or personal attack on anyone. A possible flaw in the integrity of the registry has been identified (not the first time) and some collectors have expressed their distaste with with the way PCGS requires them to play.

A set verification program would only strengthen the integrity of the registry making it better for everyone.

tradedollarnut

Shipping on my one coin was about $1500 to PCGS. The rest of the set was hand delivered to PCGS by myself and pedigreed there. Then it cost almost $1000 for their courier to deliver it back here. Total cost around $3000. I imagine High Desert's type set would be about the same. In fact, an awful lot of sets on the Registry would be cheaper to courier than ship.

How often would you like to verify it? Perhaps if each member kicks in $100 per year to pay for the costs of an annual verification of the top few sets in order to satisfy a few members that everything is nice and tidy??

Does anyone else think this whole idea is just plain STUPID!?!

EVillageProwler

How often will set owners have to go through the verification process? Who pays for this? What penalty or benefit is there between the verified and unverified sets?

EVP

wondercoin

"Does anyone else think this whole idea is just plain STUPID!?!"

After hearing about those shipping charges I do

Hey, wait a minute, you already earned your * then.

Wondercoin

tradedollarnut

Wondercoin: but that was a year ago now, I could have cracked the whole set since then!

BTW - If I was going to cheat, wouldn't I have gotten the 1885 graded at PCGS so I could have a complete set on the Registry and then gotten it put back into the NGC holder?????

I know - how about a continuous webcam on all the top sets. That way we can be absolutely certain. The Registry Police can just punch in the code to verify each set is still sitting in the vault in their precious slabs. But...heaven forbid if you touch the coins.....your set will have to be verified all over again. Be sure to take nice pictures so you can look at them every once in a while. You wouldn't want to disturb the seal on the vault that was put on by the Registry Police.

EVillageProwler

Heisenberg's Principle (re-worded loosely to fit the conversation): if you view the sets, then you've changed it.

That means that you need to re-verify. And, to re-verify, you'll need to view. And, to view, you've just changed the set. ...

EVP

wondercoin

"- how about a continuous webcam on all the top sets"

TDN: Now, that was funny!

I wonder why PCGS even asks for serial number verification. Why not simply allow anyone to register anything? Now, there is a thought

Wondercoin

Fairlaneman

TDN:

ROFLMAO !!!!

Jon:

I'll come look but not bringing the $78,000. I know you have the Coins as all Merc Collectors do !!!

Does this mean I have to take New Photo's again of the Imaged Coins in my set and include the Slab ? Crap just got done re-doing them Saturday. Come on Folks have a Little Faith in Humanity. Maybe Naive but basically I believe people are Honest.

Ken

khayse

> I know - how about a continuous webcam on all the top sets.


I guess that illustrates the folly pretty well.

-KHayse

DIMEMAN

Thanks Ken, I would be glad to show them to you anytime.

I guess I'm not getting any takers on the $1000 a coin deal. Thought not!!!

Jon

Typetone

We have the rule clarified, and I think that's all we need to do. From that point on trust works fine. Let the big boys in each set take care of monitoring what each other has if they really want to.

In terms of verification, if PCGS were willing to image the pieces professionally, I would probably be willing to go through at least one verification. More than once does seem excessive.

Greg

IrishMike

Time for a little reality check isn't it, the integrity of exactly what has been flawed, a registry set of coins voluntariy submitted to a website. 99% of coin collectors don't either care or know that it exists. Most days there aren't but 2 or 3 new threads to this Forum. It's a hobby for most of us. Maybe 20 or 30 collectors might enhance the value of their sets because they are at the top of the heap in a category, the rest of us are kidding ourselves. Now you want to send them in for verification. Yikes. George Orwell would be proud.

gmarguli

Perhaps PCGS should require that all registered set be kept in their vaults. That way they could be 100% assured that these sets existed intact.

DIMEMAN

And here I thought the U. S. S. R. was broken up.

How much would one have to pay to view his coins?

And how many out there would trust PCGS to hold their coins?

Robin Williams needs to do an HBO special on this thread. He is about the only one that could do it justice.

Jon

NIckelCollector

A verified set would good on the day of verifcation only. As soon as the set is verifed and received back, many of the "same abuses" could still take place. Maybe we should propose daily verification of all top sets. (Just kidding!!!!)

Cost of mailing and risk of loss sending entire sets through the mail is another factor to consider.

PTVETTER

My coins are MY coins and will be keeped by me.

Mercury dime collectors are a breed apart all seem to be very trust worthy.

I would like to see other mercury dime sets. Completed or not, in fact I think that there may be some nice coins on not completed sets.

I would like to meet some of the other dime collectors.

EVillageProwler

And here I thought the U. S. S. R. was broken up.

Comrade Jon,

It is CCCP, or I escort you to Dzerzhinsky Square!



EVP

wondercoin

"In terms of verification, if PCGS were willing to image the pieces professionally, I would probably be willing to go through at least one verification"


Greg: I believe that was NGC' original plan with their Registry. Photographing the coins would be great, but I do not believe PCGS is set up to do it at this point. Wondercoin

Bear

How about we have Spooly fly around the country
and verify the top 5 sets once a year. That will keep
Spooly so busy he wont be able to sign in on the Forum.

gmarguli

We need to remove any unfair advantage in this hobby.

Some new rules for PCGS's consideration:

All coins in the registry must be sent to PCGS and housed in their vaults. A modest fee of $500 a year per set plus $10 per coin could be charged.

All coins will be regraded (full cost to the set owner) every 6 months to assure everyone that the set is graded using the current standards. Any coin downgraded will of course be covered by the PCGS Grade Guarantee.

Any coins found to be owned by someone other than the set owner will cause fortifeture of ALL coins in the set to PCGS.

Random lie detector tests will be utilized to insure that the set owners actually owns every coin in their set.

Bear

Seriously, I think we have enough rules and regulations already

to choke an elephant. I like things just as they are. We probably

have more integrety among collectors then in most other walks of life.

Lets keep our collections a hobby and not a police state.

IrishMike

How about little electronic ankle monitors on the slabs?

wondercoin

Mike: You are on to something.

How about a tracking device placed on the rim of each slabbed coin?

Wondercoin

Bear

We would do better placing tracking devices on the Al Kaida. You guys should be CIA.

braddick

eBay offers an "ID Verify".
Why not PCGS? Look- I know we're having some fun here.
If this idea were to take off why not simply allow us to photocopy the coin and slab and send THAT to PCGS?
That's the procedure when PCGS cannot determine ownership on a previously registered coin that the new owner is now attempting to add to his set.

No flames here. Just an idea if this total plan were to have merit and PCGS were to decide to adopt it.

EVillageProwler

Hi Pat,

It is trivially easy to fake a picture and send that in to PCGS. All you'd need to do is keep digital images of that type of coin, and then edit the insert and coin to suit your needs.

EVP

Russ

If they used photo verification, which scan would I send? The original holder? The holder from the first crackout? The second crackout? Or, how about the scans of the coins I've sold? I keep them all, and I'd bet many collectors do.

Russ, NCNE

dbldie55

I think those that are so concerned should pay all of the costs to have these sets verified as they are the only ones who seem to care. In many cases it would just be cheaper to pay someone from PCGS to go to the place of storage of the collector than to have the coins shipped (and safer).

Whatever it takes for the few to be happy.

tradedollarnut

"good evening, sir. I'm from the Registry Police, and I'm here to help"!

gmarguli

If this idea were to take off why not simply allow us to photocopy the coin and slab and send THAT to PCGS?

I can just see someone like TDN going to his bank vault and grabbing $5 million in coins in his pocket and going down to Kinko's to photocopy the slabs. I think not...

Aaron04

The coin could be photographed in front of a newspaper like they do with ransom victims

Keyrock

Not that I am for or against verification, The coins do not need to be sent to PCGS. There are enough PCGS dealers that could verify and notify HQ (i.e. PCGS in CA). Those dealers with scanners or digital cameras could snap a few pics if necessary.

Rich

gmarguli

There are MANY PCGS dealers that I wouldn't trust with my garbage can, much less my coins. Some of the scummiest and most dishonest dealers in the country are PCGS dealers.

khayse

Seriously Greg, tell us how you REALLY feel.


-KHayse

CommemDude

I don't see any point in shipping the coins to PCGS for their "inspection", and would this happen every year? It seems it would be necessary to have continuous yearly verification if this is just so that big brother can keep tabs on us all. If I had to ship my set in for their inspection, I would also want extra points for color and beautiful toning compared to other sets. Where would this all end?
On the other hand, I would approve of PCGS investigating both parties if someone tries to enter the same ID number of a coin that is already listed in another owner's set.

tradedollarnut

Investigation? You've got to be kidding! Who is going to pay for that? And why?

I had that happen. In fact, I think it was Spooly. I had a coin out on memo to Legend who memo'd it to another dealer. Before the other dealer told us it stuck and paid for it, the person who bought it tried to enter the coin on the registry. Nothing wrong all the way around, just a simple lack of quick communication - for that you want to start an investigation?

DMWJR

Call for a showdown, and we'll see who's wearing slabs. Otherwise, there's no way you'll ever know.

Besides, what's the point in having a Registry Set of tabs sans coins?

cointime

Ok, I'll play......

Flash to the future. The date 2015, the time is 07:15:43 It is a beautiful spring morning when the young boy after breakfast tells his father he is going to log in and add the new PCGS certified coin that arrived via USPO special delivery hovercraft. He sat down in front of his millennium 16 terabit system, lifted the cover and placed his fore finger in the F.R.C (fingerprint recognition checker). Once on the https://www6.PCGS.com/ he logged into the Registry Edit System. He started up his web cam and held the sonicly/air tight sealed slab in front of the camera. The camera verified the Blue 3D O.H.H.C (oxygen humidity hologram chip, which turns red if the seal has been broken or tampered with in any way) "VALIDATED AND LOADED" came up on the screen. He reviewed his percentage while a big grin spread across his face. At that moment he jumped up ran past his father and yelled "I'll be outside playing ball with the guys dad".


Ken

p.s. If this really happens, I'm gonna want some type of royalty payments from PCGS

edited to add: Just for those that do not know an "s" after http is routed through a secure server.

RegistryCoin

"Freeze, Crack-head! Drop the hammer, and slowly back away from the slab."

Just have a motion detector/alarm attached to each slab. Upon movement, an alarm goes off, and the owner must contact pcgs for the proper dis-alarm code, to stop the ear-splitting sirens. The coin, then must be re-sent to PCGS for installation of a replacement "alarm-o slab" coin holder.

leothelyon

Here are some suggestions;

If one Brother steals from another, his nose or ears are to be cut off. If he sins again, he is to be given a musket, bullets, lead and a bottle of water and marooned on an island.

Quarrels between several Brothers whilst aboard ye forums shall be settled ashore with pistol and sword. He that draws first blood shall be the victor. No striking another whilst aboard ye forums.

Whoever shall be placed on sentry, and upon his post shall go to sleep, shall in the first case be lashed by all the Brothers, and should he again offend, his head shall be split.

All ye who shall plot to desert, or having deserted shall be captured, shall have ye heads split open.

If there is any doubt in a dispute between ye Brothers, a court of honor is to decide the verdict. If a Brother is proved in the wrong, the first time he shall be pardoned, but should he offend again, he shall be tied to a gun, and there shall receive from each of the forum's company one strike of the lash. The same punishment shall be given to ye among us, including officers, who shall get drunk, while on the forum, to the point of losing ye senses.

Have everyone agree to these terms and all the problems would go away. LOL

Off with ye heads, I say. Off with ye heads!

Leo

FullSteps

Perhaps verification would work..if PCGS would provide a special insert (black with gold lettering perhaps) free of charge on each coin in the set. This would allow for true recognition of the premium sets in the market place.

Just a thought

DAM

I've was out of town for two weeks, and didn't participate last week with forum discussions do to time issues. After reading this idea though, I wonder if I need to consider deleting my coins from the Registry.

When the day comes that I have to prove I own my coins is the day I drop out. It's too bad a few idiots have to ruin it for everyone else.

I realize most of the discussion was for fun, but it didn't start out that way. To suggest paying (even postage) to verify that I own my coins is ridiculous, to me.