I need a little advice on an eBay ethics matter.

Russ

Last month I sold a couple coins to a buyer. This buyer was a little slow responding, but not too bad. Payment came in, I went to post some positives and found that they'd been NARU'd.

This month, sold a coin to a "sunglasses" buyer. Buyer takes a while responding to eMail notice. I send a followup and when they finally respond with their address, it's the same buyer from last month with a new handle and new eMail address.

Now, I'm inclined to say screw eBay and not report them. For one thing, I don't know why their original account was suspended, but mostly because eBay doesn't really seem to give a rip anyway.

What do you guys think?

Russ, NCNE

DHeath

Russ,

As the seller, you have little risk. Who knows why he was NARU'd. Maybe his credit card was full. I'd ship and consider myself privy to too much information. IMO

kieferscoins

As long as the payment was good and it cleared, they did everything right, let them go. Like you said, you don't know why they were suspended.

Cameron Kiefer

airplanenut

I'd let it go only because he hasn't actually done anything to you. If he gives you grief, then tell eBay- he might have screwed over some other seller and gotten himself in trouble for that...

coinguy1

Interesting dilemma, Russ.

I don't know how easy it is to get suspended from Ebay and I don't intend to find out! I also don't know what Ebay's policy is regarding someone getting back on under a different handle, though I strongly suspect that would be a big no no. If that is against the rules, I would report the person, even if it appears that Ebay doesn't care too much about it. I would know I was doing the right thing and feel good about it, whether others cared or not. And, you could potentially be saving someone else from problems with that person - they must have done something wrong to get suspended. I would notify the Ebay user as well, so that I wasn't stabbing him in the back.

Lastly, I strongly disagree with airplanenut's comment :

"I'd let it go only because he hasn't actually done anything to you. If he gives you grief, then tell eBay- he might have screwed over some other seller and gotten himself in trouble for that"

I wouldn't let it go merely because the ebay user hasn't screwed me but might very well have screwed someone else!

airplanenut

<< <i> I would notify the Ebay user as well, so that I wasn't stabbing him in the back. >>

Mark,

I must say this might not be smart- this guy can still leave feedback for Russ... if Russ says "I am going to have you NARU'd" then he might use a negative to his advantage, say "Seller threatened me blah blah blah." What is a neg if he is being thrown off? Russ, on the other hand, is a good guy and the negative might very well hurt his appearance.

Jeremy

PS- Mark, I think I have changed my mind... you are right and I am wrong- I now disagree with my comment, too.

DCAMFranklin

Coinguy1-
Last time I checked, we are all still innocent, until proven guilty. Perhaps that is a strange concept for you? You don't know what happened. It is totally unfair to jump to conclusions about what happened or to assume he did anything wrong! Perhaps, another seller was unhappy that he returned a purchase and was sending him daily harrassment e-mails (I have a number of friends who have experienced such from a seller) and rather than take the crap, he cancelled that registration. Maybe he changed ISP's and didn't know how to change his e-mail address with Ebay, so he just cancelled his registration. The seller responded in a reasonable period of time, he paid with good funds and he deserves his product mailed in a timely manner. He doesn't need anyone sticking their nose into his business.

Russ-
Send the seller their merchandise, leave good Feedback if they deserve it and leave them alone. If someone can PROVE he did something wrong under his prior Ebay ID, then Ebay should be notified. Though, as you said before, they clearly don't have any concerns about some registering under another ID and e-mail address. How many Ebay ID's did that Fred fellow in New Hampshire sell under?? There are plenty of people on Ebay buying coins with one ID and selling coins with another ID.

nwcs

Ethically, I think there is no problem with completing the transaction. However, I think sending a note to ebay that there may be an issue is advisable.

coinguy1

Jeremy, I realize it's a judgment call. Personally, I would risk the negative feedback, especially if all of my other feedback were positive.

I applaud you for your open mindedness in changing your opinion - you could have just as easily gone on the defensive after reading my remark and you didn't. I'm glad

coinguy1

DCAMFranklin - I agree that we are innocent until poven guilty. Not a strange concept for me at all, as a matter of fact. Under Ebay rules, at least, it appeared that the user was proved guilty. If I misunderstood that, then I might have a different attitude. You raise some good points.

RLinn

A couple of things aren't clear to me, Russ. I admire (actually "am envious of" may be a better term) the detective work you and others are capable of on eBay. I'm not sure same address equals same individual. I agree sunglasses point in that direction. Did you have other indicators such as name on MO or check etc.? Two other (admittedly farfetched) explanations come to mind; 1) Another eBay member from same household, or 2) house sold and new owner is new to eBay.

I don't raise these points to disagree, but rather to say IMHO Russ shouldn't "tell eBay" if he isn't sure of the facts. Suspicion seems clearly warranted but suspicion isn't fact. OTOH, if Russ is sure, then he must decide if playing by eBay's rules is a sufficiently important principle upon which to act.

Petescorner

A possible scenario:
The user requested his eBay account to be closed. (In which case eBay will oblige him with a "NARU") Time passes, and the user changes his mind about eBay and selects a handle that closer identifies him with what he either sells or buys.

My point: being NARUed isn't always a negative reaction to a user.

DCAMFranklin

Coinguy1-
Being a "Not A Registered User (NARU)" does NOT mean the buyer was proven guilty. When someone cancels their Ebay ID, then they are shown as a (Not a Registered User). Perhaps Ebay cancelled their ID, though we don't know that. If he/she had bid upon a Member's auction and then was suspended by Ebay, the seller would have received an e-mail from Ebay saying the bid had been cancelled as the buyer had been suspended. To my knowledge, no one here has received such a message. Therefore, I don't feel we have the right to assume he is guilty of breaking any Ebay rules.

gmarguli

1) You can get NARUed by eBay for stupid and innocent reasons.

2) They NARU first and ask no questions.

3) To get your account back you need to jump thru hoops and be lucky enough to talk to that 1 monkey there that actually knows what they are doing.

4) eBay won't get rid of bad sellers, so I wouldn't bother reporting this user. eBay just doesn't care.

coinguy1

DCAmFranklin,

Because I knew I didn't have all of the facts, I prefaced my comment with "..... If that is against the rules, I would report the person, even if it appears that Ebay doesn't care too much about it".

If what was done was not against the rules, I would have a different opinion.

Russ

RLinn,

It is the same name, not just the same address. It's also a very unusual last name, done with the first two initials and the last name. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

The NARU does not appear to be voluntary, unless eBay adds "User Suspended" in the user ID history section even on voluntary account cancellations. Do they? I honestly don't know. It looks like this one has three negs for non-payment, so my hunch is that's why she was NARU'd.

I think what I'll do is drop her an eMail and ask what happened before I do anything else. Having had my share of non-responses from eBay and runaround trying to solve problems, I think I'll give the buyer the benefit of the doubt before I provide that same consideration to eBay.

Russ, NCNE

RLinn

Russ, thanks for the clarification. I am impressed and encouraged by the caution and restraint you show in wanting to do the right thing.

dorkkarl

i belive if you voluntarily unregister, ebay so notes, but after a time limit, the note expires. if ebay was'nt so stupid about these things, i'd want to report it, but no doubt it'd be a total waste of time.

K S

presleyh

This is a very common occurance, amongst those who get booted off ebay. Face it, if you make 1000.00 a week selling on ebay wouldnt you re-up, no matter what it takes? There are thousands of people who sell on ebay as a total means of making a living. I saw one seller who was naru'd by a single buyer. The buyer had bought 4 different items, so with 4 complaints he was bopped within a matter of minutes. I think thats a glitch that needs to be worked out. If ebay has to return final value fees three times on the same buyer he's toast. I agree with that one. But Russ, I think i would take a live and let live attitude unless personally harmed. (opinion fwiw)

coindaughter

Russ,
Though it might be curious, I would not raise a fuss with eBay. I think there are too many variables, and it could be an innocent reason, or like someone else said, someone else in the same household.

Are there any negative feedbacks on the previous ebay handle? If not, I would go ahead with the deal.

Good luck.

relayer

Dear Comrade -

In mother Russia we would report the violation, but here in the US I'd find another hobby other then working undercover as the ebay police.

FullStrike

If anyone has ever been scammed on eBay before, you'll know eBay seems to care very little. Yes, they will reimburse you $175 ( max ) but even then you're waiting 6 or more months and feeling like everything is hopeless.

If you think eBay really cares about anything beyond their fees, well.... let's say you're one heck of a trusting person.

As long as the person in question didn't rip you off, just be very very happy. I'm quite sure eBay doesn't mind collecting their fees on the deal.

Pushkin

Russ,

Innocent people do get NARUed on eBay. For me any buyer who pays according to the terms of the deal gets my respect. Best not to go looking into bedroom windows without an invitation.

Dog97

Being a narc, snitch, pimp, tattletale or backstabber is not an ethics matter to me because I don't do it.

Bear

If a person treats you on the level and is square with you , then that person is OK
in my book. I would treat them with full respect and curtesy.(I know you well enough now to know
thats what you would do anyhow Russ) Bear

jamesfsm

"Being a narc, snitch, pimp, tattletale or backstabber is not an ethics matter to me because I don't do it."

I have to agree with Dog. Why would you rat out somebody who paid you what you are owed? And, why would you care if their account was suspended?? It doesn't make them ineligible to buy something from you.

keets

russ

i find it peculiar that knowing nothing about the buyer, it's assumed by most that he must have done something to get the boot. it seems there are just as many reasons why he may have changed his ID that have nothing to do with anything shady. shame on us! NARU just means the ID is no longer registered.

so long as the transactions you've had with the guy were on the up-and-up, why feel as though you need to be the eBay policeman? it's one thing to give notice for scammers and such, but a changed ID hardly fits in that category. if you are really worried, protect yourself and block him. but it seems he's a good customer so you'd only be hurting yourself.

al h.

ursabear

Russ,

You have continually showed solid judgement in your dealings with eBay folks and board folks. Your approach and request for advice is what makes folks like you the right kind of netizens to have around.

I personally would not report them to eBay. I would, however, retain copies of my correspondence with them. They could possibly use it to their advantage if they were wrongly NARU'd. It would also protect you if there was a stink over their return to eBay.

Just my two 1/Sacagawea.

Russ

<< <i>why feel as though you need to be the eBay policeman? >>



Keets,

Just a suggestion, but you might want to read my posts before responding.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

Well, it's starting to become obvious why this one was NARU'd under her last account. Auction ended the 13th, still no payment and has ignored all followup eMails. She's also already gotten a neg for non-pay on her new account.

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl

regrettabley, pursuing it any further would likely be pointless. unless you put some value in their ebay's insanely stupid and phenomenally worthless canned "thank you but we really couldn't care less" emails.

K S

BigAlan

"eBay" and "ethics" in the same sentence, hmmmmm.

Tonekiller

<< <i>"eBay" and "ethics" in the same sentence, hmmmmm. >>





LOL! Heh, Heh....

Pushkin

Russ,

My personal opinion is that you shouldn't report this case to eBay. If he pays for the coin then he has fulfilled his contract. There are many ways to get NARU'd on eBay ,and the reasons can be perfectly innocent. Personally, my worst experiences on eBay have been with some of the "Big Guys" and eBay itself. It is unfortunate that too many people are willing to report any possibly suspicious activity even when there is no proof of guilt, yet we continue to let eBay and their "pet"sellers get away with so much more egregious behavior. Too many people seem to be developing a police state mentality, which often translates to "screw the little person for any suspected transaction" while the larger players get away with all kinds of unsavory behavior. Its unfortunate that perhaps some of us are taking out our frustrations on the easiest and perhaps most innocent targets. As a buyer, eBay, PayPal and some of the big sellers have really screwed me. As a seller, if the buyer pays his/her bills, great. Lets not become a bunch of junior fascists and witch hunters - its like some big guy kicks me, so I have to kick someone my own size or smaller and continue to let the real scallywags screw me. I've never understood this strange quirk of human nature?

Just my two little cents worth (but they are Indian cents) .

Thank you for your attention. The cat is shedding, I've got to go brush him, and he has very sharp claws.

Russ

<< <i>If he pays for the coin then he has fulfilled his contract. >>



Pushkin,

That's the rub. She hasn't paid, and is ignoring all my followup eMails. She was NARU'd before, and that account had three negs for no-pay. Her brand new account already has a neg for non-pay. It's becoming pretty clear that this one is a flake who pays only when she feels like it.

In the beginning, I was inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt, and still haven't reported her. Now, I'm not so sure.

Russ, NCNE

stujoe

I would not report it to Ebay unless I knew for sure what they were NARU for and I mean 'know' as in they did something like deadbeated -me- in the past.

Otherwise, I wouldn't bother letting Ebay know.

All that is out the window if they were to deadbeat me under the new name. Then I would certainly let Ebay know about the old user name NARU at the same time I reported for the non paying bidder fees.

Pushkin

Russ,

My apologies, I misunderstood the thread (senility is not creeping up, its racing up in my old age). I would definitely report a non-paying, non-responding buyer, and supply any additional information to eBay to support my complaint. Good luck.

Again,
Sorry.

Dog97

Rember when I said "Being a narc, snitch, pimp, tattletale or backstabber is not an ethics matter to me because I don't do it?"
Now that the buyer is a deadbeat that changes things!