And, the '33 Saint deceptive listings get even more blatant.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
Comments
Rusty.
1. The coins have a Certificate of Authenticity - most of the scams on eBay don't even offer that! The ones that robbed me didn't have the courtesy to at least give me a free certificate.
2. Who are we to pass judgment on the National Collectors Mint - maybe they are a fine, philanthropic organization that gives 50% of their profits to widows and orphans?
3. Shouldn't we just let the free market operate freely (lets admit it, the market God is Supreme, who are we to question the supreme laws of the universe)?
4. Why is it that every time somebody comes up with a new and unique entrepreneurial effort, this forum has to label it a scam or the work of shysters? I suppose we'll be complaining about Enron, WorldCom, Anderson, and all those other efforts to make a buck by praying on someone else's stupidity, ignorance, or lack of economic and political clout - whine, whine , whine. We're starting to sound like a bunch of socialists, communist do-gooders!
5. If some rich guy wants to pay $7M for about one ounce of gold with a broken right leg and bruised right knee, and its the main topic of discussion in the coin world for months, then why shouldn't us working stiffs be allowed to spend our hard, honestly earned bucks on some gold that probably has a better picture than one that King Farouk hid under his pillow and probably licked with his tongue?
6. Nobody is putting a .50 cal Desert Eagle to the buyers' heads and forcing them to buy the coins - although they may be doing that in China, forcing slave labor to colorize them (Bear, those babies will spend a lot of lead, and you can use the shell casings for shot glasses).
7. Its a strange world, isn't it?
LINK TO 1933 Gold Double Eagle Proofs
https://www.ebay.com/mys/active
How many sellers would guarantee that it's a real authentic fake?
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
And next year there would be a Farouk A... then Farouk B.. and so on down the line. After that, they would start in on Farouk A II, Farouk B II, etc. , etc, and so on and so on etc etc ..... for ever.
About the time they got to Farouk U II, maybe finally the bubble would burst. Sometimes it just takes some of us a while to finally figure it all out.
copy
Check out the picture: Would you buy gold endorsed by this man? Goldwater Junior & Dr. Susan
The window to a person's soul is in their eyes.
things that are scams:
1 picturing one thing, sending something else
2 selling counterfeit coins as real
3 altering images for the specific purpose of makng a item look better than it is
4 etc etc
but this listing does not fit the bill. sounds like another case where someone personallly doesn't like a product, therefore it is a scam.
seems to me like the real scam is getting someone to pay 7M dollars for the "other" one.
K S
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
If you list under US coins then it should be a US coin. If it is not, then it must be stated in the auction.
IMHO. Joe.
The coin itself is not gold but gold clad. As per their web site, the metal is "10 Mil 24 KT Gold Clad Base." Real collectors will not be fooled, but others can be misled by the copy. This is why I said this is not a scam, but a misleading product. They could have made it clear they were offering an altered replica, but chose to allow for ambiguity among the buying public. Again, not illegal, but misleading.
Neil
accusations of "scams" could be an effective tool for helping newbies, but the blatant, excessive use of the word has diluted its usefulness.
this listing is not a scam.
K S
at first i was thinking that some poor sap was gonna get suckered into buying a gold plated silver coin. then i realized how foolish i was for originally assuming it's silver under there! i'm sure it's the cheapest substance they could possibly find, probably particle board.
that set has an intrinsic value of maybe $5.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
am
p.s. Goldwater Jr. looks sorta like Robert Vaughn(sp?), the man from Uncle, but with even more chin!
am
<< <i>exactly how many people were fooled into thinking these were the real thing??? >>
In this auction, nobody. Probably because the seller was too greedy and set the opening too high.
But, there have been plenty of these that have gone to $50 or $60 on a single piece and at least one went over $100. None of these auctions pointed out that these are reproductions, and none pointed out that these are not a product of the US Mint.
That is a scam.
Russ, NCNE
skulduggery
scallywag
scam
scheme
scumbag
.
.
.
Some nice, colorful "s words" in the English language for use by the upholders of justice on eBay to utilize.
my problem w/ the "scam" accusation, is that SOMEBODY out there just might like this sort of thing. doesn't make him stupid. i personally wouldn't pay a penny for those "coins", but would not accuse a buyer of being an idiot. its gotta be better than beenie babies.
i am really only trying to point out that "scam" would be a much more powerful word if used more sparingly & w/ listings that actualy fool the unwary into thinking there getting something there not.
russ wouldn't appreciate this, but i remember when i was a kid, about 1970 or so, i paid $15 or so for a similar set that had a gold-plated kennedy half w/ a gold-plated medal mounted in a plush box, gave it to my dad for his b-day. he loved it! and i think he still has it. but the whole thing was probably worth about one dollar.
well, ok, maybe that does make me stupid . ....
K S
All I could think was "Hey, doofus, I would have made sure that I didn't FINGERPRINT this piece of metal before filming it spinning around and around and around. . . ." It's the fingerprint again! It's back again! And again!
But it DOES have the letters "CC" on the reverse, so it must be valuable. Many valuable coins had those letters on them, too.
William S. Burroughs, Cities of the Red Night
hey, i agree w/ RIPOFF, wholeheartedly. a rip-off is not illegal though. a "scam" would be something illegal.
a lot of things are ripoffs, such as smacking 6 down for beer at a cubs game, and paying $80 for a football ticket. but you know what? different strokes for different folks.
K S
<< <i>please note that the desc. says 24 KT Gold clad base. sorry to be a pain the u-know-what but i just don't think that would fool anyone into thinking it's a $7M coin! >>
If you really don't think that people would be fooled by this auction, then you have no grasp on the comprehension level of the average consumer in this country. Fooled in to thinking $7 million? No. Fooled in to paying too much? Hell yes. Look at the auction heading:
1933 Gold Double Eagle Proof Box Set NR
Look at the complete description:
10 Mil 24 KT Gold clad base individually struck proof limited edition of 2,250 comes with CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY
Outside of coin collectors, half the people that read the listing will see only GOLD, DOUBLE EAGLE, COA. The other half won't even understand what "10 Mil 24 KT Gold clad base" means.
You ever see those adds that say "prosthetically enlarge your penis by 2", guaranteed!" They've been around since I was a kid. You know why they're still around? Because 75% of consumers have no idea what a prosthetic is.
Russ, NCNE
both of the things you mentioend are rip-offs. ok, maybe the prospthetic thing you mentioned is a rip-out .....
K S
<< <i>a lot of things are ripoffs, such as smacking 6 down for beer at a cubs game, and paying $80 for a football ticket. but you know what? different strokes for different folks. >>
Karl, I can't agree with you. When you put down $6 for that beer or pay that $80 for a ticket, YOU KNOW what you are getting and that you are being "ripped off", and you choose it even with that knowledge. There is no deception involved. The ads for the 33 gold are blatantly deceptive. They imply one thing through association and deliver something else. I'm sure (but I can't deliver court room proof - PR66) that they are intentially designed to deceive people with limited knowledge - they give the impression that they are selling something of higer value than they actually are. Much closer if no equivalent to a scam than a ripoff.
Thank you for your attention.
This is not a US coin and no where in the auction does it state that. Yes, board members should not be fooled, but someone without knowledge might take it on faith that if it is listed under the category US Coins, then it is a US coin.
Rip-off, scam or whatever one wants to call it, this auction is designed to deceive.
IMHO. Joe.
I agree with Uncle Joe,
Have always thought that eBay should have a category called "Scams, Ripoffs, Deliberate Deceptions, Electronic Robbery". Such a category would raise their credibility from 0.2 up to at least 2.5 on a scale of 10; some here would admire their honesty.
The 33 Gold certainly isn't a US coin - but I have a feeling eBay will never do anything about these kind of offerings?
"10 Mil 24 KT Gold clad base" may be something coin collectors understand, but not the general public. ask the layperson sometime what karat gold pureness means, or what "clad" means when referring to coins.
as a matter of fact, the only part of that the average person would understand is the 24kt part. i think most people know that 24kts is pure gold. and what do you know? that's the only part where he wasn't trying to be deceiving...
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
<< <i>When you put down $6 for that beer or pay that $80 for a ticket, YOU KNOW what you are getting and that you are being "ripped off", and you choose it even with that knowledge. >>
there are definitely differences between the conditions and what's on ebay, though. you are dealing with a local monopoly when you get stuck for 6 at wrigley, you don't have a choice. ebay bidders DO have a choice, and they are choosing to buy coins other than the 1 listed. maybe it is a bad analogy.
<< <i>The ads for the 33 gold are blatantly deceptive. >>
dude, no way in the name of capitalism does a "deceptive" ad imply a "scam". tell me a beer ad w/ nothing but skinny, gorgeous babes guzzling the golden stuff, or car ads with a truck climbing rock mountains, or a mcdonald's ad showing smiling, well-behaved little brats enjoying a b-day party ain't "deceptive". if that's the criteria, then we ain't nothin but a country full of scam-loving morons!
the problem is assuming that a seller is 100% responsible for the stupidity of the buying public. i do NOT buy that (literally). if someone is stupid not to find out what the "coins" being offered realy represent, i don't have much sympathy, when in this day and age, information is about the cheapest thing available.
a scam however, WOULD be , for example, selling a 1923 st-gaudens w/ a altered date as a 1933.
pushkin, i think we're in some disagreement here, but i fully respect your opinion. just trying to say what works for me.
K S
<< <i>the problem is assuming that a seller is 100% responsible for the stupidity of the buying public. i do NOT buy that (literally). >>
A chill has just been reported in hell. I agree with Karl.
Scams work ONLY because enough of the buying public are willing participants. Sometimes that willingness is born of greed on the buyer's part, other times it is a function of ignorance. In any event, a transaction can only occur if both sides participate.
Russ, NCNE
K S
<< <i>both of the things you mentioend are rip-offs. ok, maybe the prospthetic thing you mentioned is a rip-out >>
Actually, I think the prosthetic thing he mentioned would be a tip-off.
Q: How much do those things cost, anyway?
A: About 39.95, plus tax.
Q: Tacks?!? Is THAT how you fasten them on?!?
am
Ba-dum-bum!
William S. Burroughs, Cities of the Red Night
Karl,
I agree that the beer ads with the bosoms and tight jeans, etc. are deceptive, if in a more subtle way (the attempt to allure one into believing that the product is not only a $6 beer, but maybe a bosom or something else later on - as you are aware). But I personally believe the analogy is true to a lesser extent when the deception includes plastering 24K Gold and $33M Coin all over the ad, without giving any information about the difference between gold-plated metal and a solid gold alloy. Also, giving the size and weight in metric makes me think that the ads really aren't aimed at scientists, engineers, or the European community.
I agree with you that words such as scam are often thrown around with impunity. I also believe that there are levels of deception that transcend the semantics of the ads. The protection of children, the mentally deficient, the senile (I have a selfish interest here because as I grow older, I'm becoming a more senior member of this group), and others from the results of deception are issues that I personally cannot ignore. I think it is dogmatic to take the attitude that "if they are too stupid to know any better, too bad for them", as well as dogmatic to make the moral judgment that all deception is evil. For me personally, people with knowledge have an ethical and moral responsibility to try and protect those who are more vulnerable to deception. Others would disagree. I concede that you can't measure deception in the same way you can mass or volume, but the English language does provide some choices that I think would apply in this case - I used a few in jest (but only partly in jest) in an earlier post.
<< <i>two competing theories which make exactly the same predictions, the one that is simpler is more likely the correct one" >>
Even Ockhams Razor runs into semantic difficulties because of the word "simple", which is too subjective for many theories in modern science, and the word is, in my opinion, thrown around too much also. It is also limited in terms of the meaning of competition (the Newton vs. Liebniz description of calculus, or the equivalence but very different representations of quantum mechanic (Schroedinger vs. Heisenberg, where one theory {actually representation} is simpler for some problems, but more complicated for others).
However, back to coins and scams. I personally don't like the word scam much because its constant use seems to have diminished the intensity and descriptive value of its original meaning - I think, at the very least - we agree on this.
So, for me, personally - may those scum sucking, billingsgate born, foul and loathsome charlatans and scallywags of the eBay Domain of Eternal Evil rot in Hades until the universe has undergone expansion and contraction a hundred to the hundredth power times.
For others who could care less - that's OK with me.
Thank you for your attention. Time to go pet the cat (and maybe have a $6 beer and dream of mammary glands) - maybe some deceptions aren't so bad.
now if i can just find that stein.....
K S
Hi DCAMFranklin,
<< <i>Everything is laid out very clear. >>
Wrong.
You make a good point and make many really think about the words they use here.
I'm sure that is part of your point and I like post that make me think out of the box.
In this case the s word may fit. Could someone post what Webster's tells us about the word scam?
Can't find mine. You can probably tell by my spelling.
Scam is slang for "to cheat" or "to swindle", as in a confidence game. Remember, there are many Webster's, since the name is not copyrighted or trademarked, so other dictionaries may add/subtract from this definition (from Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language).
Karl is excellent at making thoughtful points.
Shame on you, you were being deceptive. But, I don't think you were trying to scam us!
P.S. As far as Webster's dictionaries go, mine's bigger than yours - 4 inches thick!
ie., what if the seller of this 1933 had posted w/ a heading that said "coin for sale" and just a pic of the coin & nothing more (starting bids/reserves the same). wouldn't that be much closer to a "scam" then what was done? because in that case, there would be NOTHING to sway someone from thinking that "well, maybe it's just a replica". in this case, the seller said it was a gold-plated clad. it's a case where if less info. had been given, it might have been a scam.
K S
Call it whatever you want whenever a company intentionally tries to sell something by not telling the whole story it is deceptive.
By not telling everyone these are not really gold coins, but gold plated slugs that LOOK like coins, they are being deceptive.
lose 20 pounds in one week? take a pill that turns you in to a sex machine? everyone girl that eats junk food all the time is skinny and gorgeous? buying a car will turn you into a tycoon? buy some nike's and be able to jump like michael jordan?
c'mon! like i said before, if this ebay listing is a scam, then what the he11 is any doing watching tv? taking lessons in scamology??? and the worst part is, KIDS watch more tv than anyone else!!! what kind of lesson are we teaching here???
K S