NGC is now grading Problem Coins?!

braddick

I don't know if I like this or not- I haven't had a chance to really think it through: It looks like NGC will begin to grade Problem Coins.

Will PCGS be very far behind?!

http://boards.collectors-society.com/attachments//35391-NCS%20flier.jpg

osirisMMII

Look again - NCS will grade the problem coin not NGC.

wallstreetman

NGC wont be far behind! I wonder what symbols they will use, a falling star?

braddick

<< <i>Look again - NCS will grade the problem coin not NGC. >>


Right- but isn't that kind of like if CU ("Coin Universe") does something, like slab the WTC silver eagles, PCGS gets the blame for it?
NCS is a sister of NGC, right?

dorkkarl

what's wrong w/ certifying "problem" coins? their example is a bad 1 (common 1897-s morgan), but for example, if they certified a "wiped" 1815/2 bust half, i think it's a positive thing.

K S

IrishMike

When you send in a coin for conservation at NCS, I understand that they review it to see whether or not it's a candidate for conservation. You then have the option of having it graded at NGC or having it sent back unslabbed. Sounds like a good deal to me, I can't find any faults in that philosophy. Now it appears that NCS gives you an option to have it slabbed with a net grade. This isn't something new, ANACS does this. Pat I know you have or had or have at least one net-graded ANACS coin. Some of these net graded coins are valuable or net graded coins reside in holders, even PCGS, they just aren't llabled as such. There are many pre 1800 and early 1800 coins that are slabbed that if they modern coins would be in a body bag. I wonder how many coins that are sold raw in major auction sales, labled questionable color don't ultimately find a home in a slab.

pontiacinf

i have a segs cleaned /retone/obv pit au58 half cent i love...

I dont mind a minimal grade slab at all.

BigD5

An authentication service for problem coins. Anacs has been the only one doing it (please don't mention Segs!), maybe pcgs and ngc are "catching up" to Anacs?

dbldie55

<< <i>Will PCGS be very far behind?! >>



I wish this was the case, but with so many things PCGS is light years behind. I wish they would grade varieties so I could have a matching set of coins, but will have to have that portion of my set in ANACS holders. What is wrong with holdering coins without grades? The person has already paid the fee! Even if it said counterfeit, it should be an option to get a holder when you pay your money.

EVillageProwler

Folks,

I don't know if NGC itself will start grading problem coins in the fashion of ANACS and SEGS with ``net'' grades. (All companies grade problem coins; it's just how severe and how noticable. Remember that just about all Early material have been cleaned. Yet, PCGS, NGC, ICG, etc., will grade those ``problem'' coins that they wouldn't otherwise if they wre Morgans.)

NCS (not NGC), on the other hand, will start certifying problem coins. They will slab it, assign it a ``details'' grade, and label the insert with the problem.

NCS will NOT assign the coin a ``net'' grade.

EVP

wingedliberty

Everybody is forgetting that PCGS and NGC typically grade problem coins within specifiec series that
are endemic to cleaning. I dare anyone on this board, to do the following experiment. Go to any
major show: Look at , at least 10 Bust Halves in PCGS/NGC holders , regardless of grade, I bet you
that at least 6 will be cleaned. I will share the following best kept secret in professional grading. It
is common sense , but often gets overlooked. I have friends that grade for the major grading services.

Here it is:

"THE NUMBER ONE FACTOR IN DETERMINING A COIN'S GRADE IS EYE APPEAL, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!"

Brian.

WWBillman

<< <i>NGC wont be far behind! I wonder what symbols they will use, a falling star? >>



LMAO, that was a good way to start off the day.

PCI also slabs problem coins don't they? Red and Green boarders on the labels.

DMWJR

Many, many, proof Morgans that have been "wiped" are in holders. Older proofs were purely collector coins, and wiping was an accepted practice back then. So I think the services accept this and basically "net" grade them, so you will see Proof 60-63 Morgans that have been wiped, and don't have any other noticable flaws.

jom

Isn't it good that services slab "problem" coins as long as the problem is mentioned on the holder? Reasons:

1) Education
2) It keeps if from being a raw coin that could (and probably will) be sold without the disclosure

Frankly, this is better than what NGC and PCGS do now when they "accidentally" slab cleaned/wiped/whatever coins and mention NOTHING on the holder. This NCS service and ANACS "net grade" service can ONLY be a good thing, IMO. Again, as long as the problem is mentioned on the holder.

jom

RotatedRainbows

I think it is good to get more of the problem coins into some type of holder where the problem is noted on the slab, not only to help stop the unknowledgeable collector from getting ripped but also as study aids. If more collectors could actually see cleaned or altered coins first hand it will help them better recognize them in the future which can be nothing but good for everyone (except of course the con man who profit from selling bad coins).

braddick

IrishMike, don't get me wrong, as I stated in my original Thread/post- "I don't know if I like this or not...". The jury is still out, for me, on this issue.
I know I ran a Thread about year ago soliciting opinions on whether PCGS should grade problem coins and the resounding round of replies was "NO!".

I have, in theory, no problem with NGC (NCS) grading out coins like the ones sampled in their advertisment. But, I'm also aware it is a slight "moving the line in the sand" proposition for NGC too.

IrishMike

Braddick here is how I see it. I have a coin that is in another holder, I don't like the way it looks so I send it into NCS to see if they can improve it's looks and preserve it. They call me up, give me the bad news, this coined has been cleaned and nothing we can do with it. We can put into a slab or return it, at the point the choice is mine. Say I want to do the right thing and not pass it off to another buyer, so I say yes. It still has some value and can be sold with a guarantee and full disclosure of what it's problems are.

If I send a coin into any other service, it gets body bagged with no explanation. So I left to wonder what is wrong with the coin. It gets sold the process repeats itself. Of course someone could and will break out the coin and try to resell it, but at least I know what it is. We all know the older a coin is the more the grading services let it get away with. So what is the down side?

braddick

The way you lay it out, no downside.
But I'm not sure if that is looking at the big picture with blinders on.

NGC has NEVER graded a (knowingly) problem coin (I don't count dipped or lightly cleaned/currated coins as "problem" coins-). They are now associating themselves with doing so.

Again, I've just got to let this all settle into my thinking before coming up with a clear opinion on it all.

robertpr

Actually, I agree with the logic that it helps keep problem coins from being sold raw without the disclosure. Furthermore, it gives me incentive to send coins to NGC and not ANACS, but with one big caveat: You have to pay the NCS conservation fee whether the coin merits conservation or not, right?

wallstreetman

I just dont want to see junk in PCGS holders! The others can do what ever they want, this is just another thing that sets PCGS apart from the rest. I hope they continue to look down on toning also, its just another problem that can develope over time if allowed. Doesnt MS stand for Mint State(the way it came from the Mint), points should be taken away for any toning! I bought a Toned Morgan a couple weeks ago. I looked at an Original White Morgan and looked at the Toned Morgan, I then said to myself, "What the heck did I do", Im losing all focus as to what collecting is all about. I hope PCGS doesnt lose focus!

jom

<< <i>I just dont want to see junk in PCGS holders! >>



You don't? OK, my suggestion to you is not to attend any coins shows or any auction viewings... lol

jom

wallstreetman

Look again for more controversial statements above! Sorry all you Tone fans, no offense, I think its from looking at nice shiny Gold coins. I just have to have coins that look like new!

cointagious

<< <i> know I ran a Thread about year ago soliciting opinions on whether PCGS should grade problem coins and the resounding round of replies was "NO!". >>



PCGS has been holdering problem coins for years IF they're rarities. i'm not refering to hairlined pieces from old cleanings but to pieces with graffiti, tooling, wizzed, etc. AND, they don't make any notation on the holder. in the last couple of years ngc has also started to slab better pieces with detrimental cleanings (but not pieces with severe problems like pcgs does) that would have been b.bagged 5 years ago. as the pool of ungraded classics dwidles, you'll find the pcgs & ngc scrambling to slab nearly anything in the future, imho. how they handle the issue with the collector will be most telling.



<< <i>I just dont want to see junk in PCGS holders! >>



it won't be long!

leothelyon

It looks like NGC will begin to grade Problem Coins.

I thought that was what NGC has been grading all along.....No Good Coins. LOL

Leo

kieferscoins

Has anyone actually goten one back in the slab yet? When you do, can you post a better picture what it looks like?

Cameron Kiefer

dorkkarl

dude, all you gotta do is go to any decent show. in fact, at the chicago show a couple of weeks ago, i have never seen more problem coins in slabs. MOSTLY cleaned early copper, etc.

ironically, i find it a positive development if "problem" coins can be slabbed, but they should indicate such prob's on the holder.

K S