Extremely pricey modern coin

Mark

Check out this dime for a remarkably high-grade, high-price clad dime: Link to 84-D dime

Does anyone have any predictions about how high the price will be bid?

Mark

TheNumish

My guess would be $1,500.

BNE

No picture ?!

braddick

<< <i>No picture ?! >>



What?! You don't know what a 1984-D Dime looks like? Well, it's like the 1984 but it's got a little tiny "D" (MintMark) right above the date...

Mark

Braddick:

I think a beter description is to take a 2002-D dime and then envision the first "2" being a "1", the first "0" being a "9", the second "0" being an "8", and the second "2" being a "4". This gives me a muchclearer mind's eye picture of the coin!

Mark

cdmead

Buy the holder, not the coin.

The auction says the guy doesn't even have the coin back from PCGS yet.

I SHOULD GET THIS COIN BACK FROM PCGS THIS WEEK

I can't wait be the first one on my block to get a dime.

braddick

I know we're kind of half making fun of this coin, but I've got to imagine a ton of these have been searched through and cherried and finding a REAL MS68 would be a next to impossible feat.
If I was a Roosevelt collector I guess I'd have to be interested in this one! I bet the price climbs past $2,000.00. That's my prediction.

goyankeez

Looks like he can't wait to get rid of it.

Mark

Braddick:

I am putting together a set of clad dimes and I have paid into the thousands many times for coins, but I truly can't see paying anything near $2,000 for this dime. Sure, it's a great dime and I'd love to have it, but for $2,000 I could get another decent grade pattern cent, which for me would be a much more coin interesting than this dime.

And, note that I said nothing about the future price of this dime. I've got to think that pulling an 84-D dime from a mint set takes a tremendous amount of time and effort, but there are already people out there devoting their time and effort to this endeavor. If they succeed, the dime's population will climb and I presume its price will fall.

So, will this 84-D dime remain a pop 1 coin? The buyer had better hope so. Given that I am unlikely to be the buyer, I can hope that a few others are uncovered so that I, too, can acquire one later at what I hope is a more reasonable price. But, if that coin remains a pop 1, then the buyer might well have purchased a bargin.

Mark

wallstreetman

He wants $25 for shipping! Get a rope!

braddick

Mark, I defer to you as this is not my series and I only base my speculation on "Pop 1" Registry coins and such.
I will say, with as few MS67's that are even out there, it has a chance of remaining a Pop 1 for awhile. Again though, that's pure speculation on my part.

If a PopXX MS69 State quarter can sell for $5,000.00++ than this dime would have shot at the two grand mark.
Either way, it'll be an interesting coin to watch as it won't only tell it's own story, but that of other "high grade, right side" pop coins too.

TheNumish

I think a pop 3 Roosevelt in 68 is worth about $550. There is no question in my mind there will be more of these graded. It's just a matter of time.

jom

This is too funny. They want $2500 for a Roosevelt dime and they don't even have a picture. Geez...find a nice MS65 and forget it. It's cost you $20 at most...and that's cheaper than the shipping. lol

jom

cladking

The 84-D does run pretty nice. Find a small stack of '84 mint sets and
pick out the nicest Denver dime. It won't be as nice as this one, but if
you give the dealer a sawbuck for it then you'll have one nearly as nice,
made the dealer happy, and saved yourself a stack of money. A few
caveats though; You'll need about "40" sets to be reasonably sure of
finding a nice one, '84 mint sets don't really stack, you won't have a rare
coin when you're done.

CalGold

Cladking,

Even if you find another MS68 you wont have a rare coin. You will have a common coin in ultra high MS grade.
If you had a 1894-s dime, then you would have a rare coin, even if it were in low grade.

BNE

I see, no coin yet, so no picture.

Maybe I'm too conservative, but I probably would have waited until the coin came back before putting it up for auction. What if it got the "fingerprint special?" What if the submission status report (if that's where he got the info from) was wrong.

And I think a picture of the coin in the slab would probably attract more bidders. I know it would help me. Try as I might, I can't picture a little -- "D" did you say? -- under the date.

RLinn

He doesn't have a picture because he doesn't have the coin.

BTW, until he gets the coin he won't know for sure if he got the fingerprint either.

BillJones

Let’s see –

No picture (Not that it would do you much good since you would have to go over this one personally with a 10X to really check it out.

$1,500 to $2,000 for coin with a mintage of just under 705 million.

$25 for Registered mail when it costs about half that to ship it.

One black spot the coin is dead as a dodo.

And you could get some fingerprints from PCGS on the coin a no extra charge.

Sounds to me like the inmates are running the asylum. I’ll never understand the ultra high PCGS slab grade coin market. And I hope I never will because when I do someone will realize that I have become truly CERTIFIABLE!

presleyh

IF i was ever so lucky as to slab an ms68 coin that cost me 10 cents plus grading fees, and someone would pay me maybe $1000.00 for it, I COULDNT WAIT TO SELL IT EITHER!!!! Good show!

cladking

It has never been about mintage. This is not only true in old coins and modern coins
but also in antique furniture, stamps, baseball cards, and everything else that people
have ever collected. It is about supply which is determined by survival rates and de-
mand which is determined by the actions of groups of people.

The mintage may be 705 million, but a small fraction of these have survived without
being circulated. Only the tiniest fraction of this mintage was produced in high grades,
and the survival rates for these nice coins is not much better than the survival rates for
the more typical ones. This is largely because people ignored these coins when they
were issued and for many years afterward. Even those of us who haven't been certi-
fied yet can understand this if we try. Of course, one need want to see.

mrdq

<< <i>He wants $25 for shipping! Get a rope! >>



hehe that made me laugh

CalGold

CladKing,

Here we go again. Some of us just do not think that paying super prices for super gem common coins makes much sense. I would apply that to all common coins - not just moderns- that are readily available in MS65 or MS66 where there is a huge price jump to the next level. The difference between grades above 66 is just too small to warrant mega price jumps given the pops at 65 and 66 levels. I would make a distinction for special strike characteristics like PL or DMPL, where a premium applies over brilliant coins at the same grade level. In other words, I could understand a 68PL commanding a huge premium over a regular 66 where both PL and 68 coins were hard to come by.

IMO.

Obviously others with money to spend disagree.

jom

CalGold: You and clad king are pretty much saying the same thing. You are correct in saying you can get a nice one in MS66 for a fraction of the cost. If I were putting a set together this is what I'd do: Go thru Ebay and see at what grade the big price jump starts. Let's say for the 84-D it's MS67. Then I'd go buy the nicest MS66 I could find for an amount far less than the 67. BTW, when I say "nicest" I don't necessarily mean high end in the grading sense but the one with the most eye-appeal.

This way you can save a FORTUNE and still put together a great set.

jom

cladking

And again it appears that you may be glossing over the fact that, unlike classics, most
moderns are scarce in the just missed grades too. In fact many moderns, '84-D dime
excluded, are difficult in gem condition. If a collector doesn't like high grade moderns,
he is under no obligation to buy them, collect them, study them, herd them, or explain
their problem with them. Nor need they call those who do collect them insane.





added "collect them" in last sentence for clarity.

CalGold

JOM,

I agree.

Cladking,

You say the "gems" are hard to find. What do you mean by gem? MS65--the usualy gem starting point-or a higher grade like MS67 or 68?

cladking

MS-65. In a few cases even MS-64 are tough.

presleyh

ms 68 is close to impossible in modern clads. Take a look at the Ike coin price guide from the pcgs home page. It is amazing how hard it is to find a 25 year old coin in ms 67 or 68.

CalGold

The difficulty in finding some modern coins in super high MS grades is not a factor of age, it is a factor of how they were made at the Mint. Large output and poorly struck was the rule. But the fact remains that they were minted in huge quantities. So 67s and 68s may not be around but there may be many thousands of 66s out there. That is why I agree with JOM's approach of finding the point in the gem categories where prices soar and buy just below that.

Again, I would apply this approach to classic coins as well.

jom

I was going to clairify my statement until CalGold said:



<< <i>Again, I would apply this approach to classic coins as well. >>



This is what I meant. It DOES NOT matter what coin series we are talking about. If it's an 1984-D dime that large jump grade may be MS67 or a 1925-S Buffalo it might be MS65 or the difference between a 1945-P Dime in 65 vs. 65FB or the jump from AU58 to MS60 for an 1911-D $10 Indian. I use the same "philosophy" when buying regardless of the coin involved.



<< <i>Nor need they call those who do collect them insane... >>



The issue is not a modern vs classic thing. It is an issue of PRICE. Yes, people can do what they please but I find it hard to justify "sanity" when someone pays x100 for a one-step jump in grade. If you take your time you could cherry-pick a coin that is every bit as nice as the higher graded coin for far less money. Like I said people can do what they want but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me....



<< <i>...unlike classics, most moderns are scarce in the just missed grades too... >>



Unlike classics? Many classics are difficult in gem condition also. Many gold coins from the 1860s for instance are not only difficult they DO NOT EXSIST in mint state let alone gem. Not sure what you meant here...

jom

cladking

Most of the classics were much better made than the moderns. Large percentages
of the classics were gems as they came out of the dies. Today the difficulty is in
finding these coins in a high state of preservation. In most cases a significant per-
centage were saved in unc, but over the years even these have met incidents
which have marred their surfaces. A very tiny percentage of the moderns were
saved, but most of these are still "as struck". The difference is that these coins were
not gems as they left the mint. They were struck by worn out dies which had been
badly misalligned. Strike pressure was reduced to extend die life, master hubs from
which the dies were made were worn. Copper/ nickel does not strike as well, but
the mint usually found a way to bang up the new coins anyway. With some dates
even the planchets were a serious problem. They, too, were scratched up enough
that the strike couldn't obliterate all the defects. Look at 1971 quarters to see this
effect.

So go ahead and buy the coins you want in the grades you want. But anyone who tells
you that an MS-68 84-D dime was made in quantities of hundreds of millions and people
who purchase them are crazy are very much mistaken. -and for no good reason!

muenzen

A fool and his money are soon parted, this is, providing the reserve is met.

muenzen

Hum..... $2,000 for a MS-68 1984d dime or F-12 1916 SL quarter.

jom

<< <i>MS-68 84-D dime was made in quantities of hundreds of millions.... >>



I'm not actually disagreeing with you cladking. But if you want to discuss quantities let's do it: I'm can say there are probably no more than one or two 1901-S quarters in MS68 (I know of one in 67 but I don't have the pop report handy). There are probably one or two 1984-D dimes in MS68. So, there you go. We agree. The quantities of a classic coin are equivalent to a modern. What's the difference in the the two? The fact that there are probably no more than 5 1901-S quarters in MS65 where there are probably 20 million 1984-D dimes. That's the difference. OK, maybe 84-D isn't the best example. How about 72-D Ike? It's probably non-exsistant in MS68 or MS67 for that matter. BUT there are probably several million in MS63 or less...whereas, again, the 1901-S quarter there are probably no more than 15 or so (a guess on my part). But, like I said, that isn't the issue.



<< <i>But anyone who tells you that an MS-68 84-D dime was made in quantities of hundreds of millions who purchase them are crazy are very much mistaken >>



Again, that isn't the point. I'm just trying to say I think (IMO) it is crazy to pay a huge premium for a small difference in grade. I'll take the MS67 84-D dime for a fraction of the cost, thank you very much. OR an almost FB 1945-P dime over one that is FB in the same grade. You see, it's not a modern vs classic thing. It's this blind dependence on the third party grading services to give you a consistant opinion on the difference between an MS67 and an MS68 (or MS63 and 64). To me it is best that the collector depend on him/her self to cherry-pick the nicest coin possible for the least amount of money. Instead of running off to Ebay to buy the next pop 1 coin why not spend a little time at shows or wherever to put a nice set together? This world of "instant gratification" isn't really doing anyone any good. I recently viewed a so-called top Registry set of Walkers in a recent auction. This set was clearly not cherry-picked. It was put together to get the highest possible Registry score and it appearently was NOT worked at over any significant period of time. Instant gratification. This set may have been a top Registry set but it in NO WAY came close to the probably lower average graded and HIGHER quality set put together by James Bennet Prior over a period of 25 years. No one seems to want to spend any time putting together a set anymore....



<< <i>They were struck by worn out dies which had been badly misalligned. Strike pressure was reduced to extend die life... >>



Sounds like the typical production problems in the Buffalo nickel series....or SLQ's....or Mercury dimes... So how is this just related to modern coinage exactly? This is a different issue I'm questioning but just thought I'd mention it.

jom

zenny

"...returns are not usually accepted."

anybody else catch this?

wondercoin

Remember, we are trying not to attack collectors' choices here. And, who might likely own this dime next week - a serious collector who believes in this market (right or wrong). There isn't a snowball's chance an "unsuspecting" newbie is going to stumble on to ebay and pay $2500 for a 1984 dime - now is there? Those are the guys that email me all the time asking if their 1984(d) dime from their pocket might be worth $10 or $20 (and I generally always write back) So, there really isn't a positive motivation to attack another's collecting decisions.

I am in the process of purchasing Roosevelt Dimes for a world class set (I will generally pay more than anyone in the country for these coins and have done so time and time again) and, frankly, if this coin was a "true" MS69 grade, I would be very interested in the piece myself. And, that comment takes nothing away from this coin, which right now is probably the greates slabbed 1984(d) dime money can buy Wondercoin.

CalGold

JOM has hit the nail on the head. I would only add that when you get to levels above MS66, the differnces on strike, luster and surface preservation between grades (ie. between 66 and 67, and between 67 and 68) become very difficult to detect. That is because a 66 is already a super nice coin. Sure, there are people with a "great eye" who can discern the difference, sort of an "I know a 68 when I see one" situation. But the fact remains that most collectors really cannot tell the difference--they must rely on the grade assigned by PCGS, NGC etc., and as we all know there can easily be a grade point of disagreement among professional graders at those levels. And since the degree to which a 68 is nicer than a 67 or a 66 is so small that when offered a 68 at a huge premium over a 66 or 67 many collectors will keep their check book closed.

But if you can tell the difference, or if a coin, regardless of the grade on the slab, stands out as having superior quality, and you want to go for it, do so. I don't care. I am not going to say you are crazy. I would just hope, for your sake, that you really can personally see the difference in quality that you are paying for, and that you are not just buying the number on the slab.

dbldie55

So wondercoin will only be interested in a MS68 if it is a true MS69. Makes good business sense to me. If you pay more than anyone, how do you sell them without doing it for a loss?

jom

I did my best in writing that post but I should NOT have used the term "crazy". Sorry about that...I should have been more politically correct. I should have used "insane". lol j/k

I do apologize for it coming off as an attack. I guess my point is that it is not logical to pay these kinds of prices for small steps in grade. Yes, collectors should be able to do as they please (without harrasment from me!) but don't tell me that having the highest graded set in MS68 is going to be necessarily nicer than a cherry-picked set put together over a long period of time in lesser grades. I know that isn't the case, I've seen it.



<< <i>I will generally pay more than anyone in the country for these coins >>



Of course you do. You are a dealer. It's your job to buy these coins because you know someone is going to buy it. You know the market. I'm not talking about dealers however. I'm talking about collecting and collectors...

jom

michael

for me this is a very rare desirable coin for many IN the combination of the coin and SPECIFIC HOLDER AND GRADE THEREOF and that is great!

just make sure you think very carefully about this one thing if you are considering buying this coin

1 currently what is this coin worth out of the holder?

if you buy this coin that is great as long as you are comfortable with this coin in terms of what criteria you value it at!

sincerely michael

wondercoin

"So wondercoin will only be interested in a MS68 if it is a true MS69. Makes good business sense to me. If you pay more than anyone, how do you sell them without doing it for a loss?"

Dbldie55: Read my post again. I would only be greatly interested in a 1984(d) dime if it was an MS69 coin. I personally have no interest in this particular MS68 dime at the price levels sought. Wondercoin.

cladking

20 million 1984-D dimes in MS-65 or better?

NO! Hardly. This is one of the more common dimes, and there aren't
even 3 million uncs. I'd guess just under 2 million. Maybe 8 to 10% are
gems. And this is one of the most common modern gems too.

Some moderns fewer than 1% are gem and some moderns were not
saved heavily in unc.