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Why NGC is my favorite grading service

1)Consistency of grading
In the average NGC submission 90% of the coins are graded right, 5 % are undergraded and 5% are overgraded. They are very consistent. With the typical PCGS submission 80% of the coins are graded right, 15% of the coins are undergraded and 5% are overgraded. Then there is what I call a PCGS death return. Those are the packages where 80% of the coins are undergraded and you just want to scream about all the money you wasted on grading fees. Remeber that thread a few weeks ago about how MnM coin had his Lincolns undergraded? It's not fun.

2)Customer Service
If you have a question about how a coin is graded you can call NGC and talk to a grader and get a straight answer. NGC bends over backwards to let you know your business is appreciated and they want to take care of you. No hassles, aggravations or excuses. They just want the problem solved. Seems to me PCGS graders are in an ivory tower and are inaccescible to discuss anything. I must say the customer service people on the front lines of PCGS have been very nice and helpful. I've always felt the higher ups at PCGS have no respect for anyone elses opinion and are arrogent.

3)PCGS is a competitor for the coins I sell
David Hall Rare Coins is owned by the same company that owns PCGS. In fact David Hall is the largest share holder. Seems like a big conflict of interest that they sell coins and grade coins. It's also unfair that in the whole scheme of things their grading fees are free. It's wrong and really makes me mad.

4)NGC has NCS
NCS curates coins that can be improved on without hurting the coins. This came about because there is a need for the service. This service is open to everyone. PCGS does the same thing for their good customers behind the scenes. I know this because I sent some PCGS coins to a friend of mine and they dipped them and reholdered them.

5)Coins don't change colors in NGC holders
I submit a lot of modern gold proofs and about 20% of the PCGS coins come back with spots or haze. I've sent 4 letters to PCGS asking what I can do to keep this from happening and have never had an answer. With NGC's new holders I've never had that problem. I think in the long run the NGC holder is better for your coin.

6)NGC is better at attributing varieties
NGC does a better job attributing varieties. I've even had coins returned from NGC with the variety on the coin and I didn't even ask for it. Another example of great customer service.

7)NGC doesn't grade 9/11 coins
NGC won't put World Trade Center on their holders for coins that have been recovered. I don't have a problem with people buying and selling this stuff. It's not something I trade in. I have to respect NGC's decision not to do this. It shows a solid moral standard.

8)NGC's pre-grade service is straightforward
NGC let's you know exactly how many coins you need to submit for pre-grade and the cost. With PCGS you have to call them. The price might be the same for everybody but it feels like you have to work a deal. PCGS also has a formula that a certain % has to grade or it's one price and if you fall under that mark it's another. I wish they would just come up with a policy and publish it.

Some have mentioned NGC has an affiliation with Home Shopping Network. They don't. The dealers who sell coins to the Home Shopping people have just chosen to submit their coins through NGC.


Many NGC coins do bring less than PCGS coins but I look at it this way. If you had a $100 bill NGC would grade it saying it was $100 bill and you'd get $100. If PCGS grades it they would say it's a $50 bill and you'd get $100 for it. If accugrade grades it they'd say it's a $10,000 bill and you'd get $100 for it. In the end you get what the coin is worth.

The collector in me doesn't care what holder the coin is in. If I like the coin I buy it. It doesn't even have to be in any holder for me to put it in my collection. The grading services are just a tool to help us buy the coins we want and make it easier to sell them when the time comes. They have their opinion and it's up to you to make your own. That's one thing that makes the hobby fun.

Last thing--I feel bad about criticizing PCGS when they are providing this forum. It's a pretty cool thing for them to do and I really do appreciate it. They've taken a lot of heat here and have been pretty good about it.


Comments

  • MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "With the typical PCGS submission 80% of the coins are graded right, 15% of the coins are undergraded and 5% are overgraded."
    .
    Very nice statistics! I'm impressed! Now, where did you get these? Did somebody take a survey of 100 people who have submitted to PCGS and another 100 who submitted to NGC?
    Thanksgiving National Battlefield Coin Show is November 29-30, 2024 at the Eisenhower Allstar Sportsplex, Gettysburg, PA. Tables are available. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
  • Wow, good post.

    Can anyone come up with a similar list for PCGS? (i've never submitted to them, so i don't have much experiance. . . .)

    B.

    PS, Thank you to PCGS for these boards and putting up with the stuff we sometimes throw. (Even if it is true!!!!)

    B.
    A Fine is a tax for doing wrong.
    A Tax is a fine for doing good.
  • TheNumishTheNumish Posts: 1,628 ✭✭
    The percentages are just my personal experience over the past year. I think I've sbmitted about 2,000 of my own coins in the past year. Some might have a different experience.
  • Excellent Numish! I wonder how many people with both the experience of buying as well as having their coins graded can make similar claims for or against what you have written. I get appalled at the apparent lack of experience of individuals who claim to love one service or another. How many have submitted tens, hundreds, or even thousands of coins to BOTH NGC or PCGS (or other services as well) and can make their bold claims about grading accuracy, precision, consistency, etc. How many of them grade their coins first in their own head and then compare the results with what they foretold? I would suggest that few among us here can make those claims - Greg Margulis, MikeIrish, EVP, Russ, braddick and others come to mind (sorry if I left you off my list). For those who only buy slabbed coins but never take the risk of cracking them out and submitting them to the same service in a test for grading accuracy (vs. precision - check out your local statistics book), then try it - it may actually inform you. Try doing this and sending it to the competing services, then you may gain the reality check to back your claims for or against any given service. I have done these things many times. NGC and PCGS more often than not grade coins the same, but PCGS is all over the map with the consistency of their modern grading. I swear they grade those coins with a dart board. (And PCGS's attribution of varieties and designation of CAM and DCAM leave a great deal to be desired). So, I don't care if NGC regards many of the perfectly minted coins of modern process as MS70 - at least they are consistent and don't waver by as much as 3 points, which PCGS does.

    When buying a coin, I could care less what holder it's in. Period.

    And for the record, I am not in love with NGC, I simply prefer them for many of the reasons that the Numish stated. I am a little guy in the world of coins but NGC seems to actually care that I exist. Customer service goes a long way toward satisfaction.

    Hoot
    From this hour I ordain myself loos'd of limits and imaginary lines. - Whitman
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Last I heard, DHRC does not submit to PCGS. Therefore their grading fees are not free.

    But B&M does......

  • Great Post Jay!

    Bryan
  • FrattLawFrattLaw Posts: 3,290 ✭✭
    Great Post! All of you more experienced collectors/dealers (don't want to leave anyone out) really are an asset to this forum and the rest of us newbies, if I can speak for all of us newbies. The amount I have learned in 2 months is amazing.

    Thanks again!

    Michael
  • For a while I was submitting a fair number of Philippine coins to NGC, not huge but a hundred every other month or so. Then I ran out of coins and hadn't submitted any for a while. I recently sent a very small package with 5 coins in it and a week later I had a phone call from NGC. I figured they had a question about the invoice or something, but instead it was just one of the people in receiving calling to say thanks for the submission and that it was nice to hear from me again.

    I thought it was pretty cool. image
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great Thread! NGC has made their share of mistakes (and, there is a "flag" holder NGC put out, I know because I own one of them . . .) but overall they've avoided most of the pitfalls PCGS has fallen into.

    NGC has also had a fingerprint issue (I know, because my 1976-S MS68 NGC silver Ike had two), but NGC is good about taking care of the problem (they removed the fingerprints and reholdered the coin without charging a fee).

    Consistency of grading depends on what you expect the grades to be. If your thinking is closer to NGC's than PCGS's, then of course NGC will appear to be more consistent.
    I'm learning more and more and one of those grading lessons is I've been too tough on my self and am "lightening up" a bit- thus my anticipated grade is falling more in line with what NGC is giving me vs PCGS. I just had a submission (a full, up until now, complete 1958 MintSet) returned and each and every coin matched what I figured the coins were with NGC. A year ago they would have each been overgraded a point.

    I haven't had coins haze up in NGC holders and I have in PCGS (and, PCI's), so in that arena, NGC tops out.

    Right now NGC OWNS Customer Service. Each and every request I've had they've matched with an answer or follow up. PCGS is more and more on the ball, but it is still getting dropped and an issue will sometimes require two or three phone calls to get resolved.

    I honestly think soon (other than Moderns) NGC will be on par with PCGS if not overcome their top spot in most, if not all areas that are important to Dealers and Collectors alike.

    peacockcoins

  • TONEDDOLLARSTONEDDOLLARS Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭✭
    I for one love threads like this, that are so full of infomation. They are always better than the the threads where someone attacks someone else over something that was said. This is a reason to belong to this forum to pick up fresh thoughts on subjects like this. I think as a matter of course people use numbers and percents to make there arguments with out really having the info. to back them up. It is nice to hear someone back up those numbers but I personally donot always think it is necessary. image
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    amen, tonedollars.

    K S
  • Braddick:
    I believe that NGC is being more dilligent with grading modern coins. Take Proofs as an example, there are a lot of DCAM slabs out there that would not make the UCAM designation with NGC. In this instance they are fussier.
    I have never seen a Peace Dollar that I did not like!!
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Numish

    Thanks for sharing your insight and experience.
    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin

  • Hey wait a minute! Here are some of my responses (why I like PCGS more)

    1. Consistancy of grading or easy to get a high grade and make a quick buck? How can any company that is constantly giving MS70/PR70s to sell on HSN be considered consistant. Yes NGC is easier on many coins. That is exactly why I prefer to buy PCGS coins. Consistantly making submitters happy doesn't mean NGC's grading is the best.

    2. I haven't had any real problems with PCGS customer service, nor have I tried NGC's, so I can't comment too much on this area. Only that if I ever do an NGC submission, man oh man it had better be good after all I've heard!

    3. If your coins are priced properly, I don't know if David Hall's coins are really much competition, as they are too darn expensive. And if that pushes up the value, that doesn't hurt either.

    4. You say PCGS will dip coins for good customers. I beleive they may do this if it is requested for anyone. Not sure on this area.

    5. I don't send in modern Gold proofs, so I can't comment here either.

    6. I don't care much about this.

    7. I don't like PCGS doing this, but I believe NGC will do what they need to make a buck as well. The American Flag inserts of their's I believe came after 9/11, so it really was just an offshoot. If these Flag holders are so great, where were they before 9/11?

    8. Agree that PCGS could do better here.

    Final Key Idea: Is the grade on the holder the correct grade, or will be backed 100% by the company that graded the coin? I think PCGS is the best here, otherwise, buy the low cost NGC coins, and get the same grade in PCGS holders, and sell for more money, right? It really isn't that easy.

    I just wonder how many people are sitting with big NGC collections, and are afraid that maybe a bunch of their coins are overgraded (maybe just 1 point). Personally, I never worry that any of my PCGS coins are overgraded.

    JJacks


    Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
  • I also have submitted quite a few coins to both services, sometimes even in their original slabs. That''s right folks! Talk about the ultimate test! As Hoot said, many come back the same, but significant numbers don't. My luck has been better with preslabbed grading at NGC, but this was done as a little experience to see if what I heard was true about PCGS not crossing NGC coins. They do occasionally, but not much. It cost me a few bucks, but I learned what I needed to know.

    This entire business of who is better, yada, yada, yada, tears down the hobby and does more harm than good, frankly. I don't hear many people on the NGC Board tearing down PCGS, certainly not as much as here. This whole excercise over here sounds a lot like "Chicken Little". Who are you trying to convince?

    Oldtrader3
    I have never seen a Peace Dollar that I did not like!!

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