Mike-- If you're going to start coming around here and backing up everything you say with facts and thoughtful commentary... then I for one, will refuse to read your posts!
Of course a tiny one point difference in grade can translate into a significant difference in price and you know that I'm aware of that. However, I'm reasonably confident that the price differential between a MS65 and MS67 Arkansas half-dollar (or any of the other examples cited on this thread) will hold up! Can the same be said of the price differential between a MS68 and MS69 State Quarter? I remember when the first one was graded a while back and someone on this forum asked how long it would be before another achieved that lofty designation? Someone speculated years -- but it happened within the week!
Mike, In the first message on this topic, someone pointed out this article and wondered what other people thought and as such I gave my opinion on the article in question. I find it great that you have penned other articles and you seem to enjoy what you are doing. From the information you posted about them, it appears as though you have helped the consumer out in avoiding these rip-offs. Perhaps when I have a bit more time, I will search the net for these articles.
The bottom line is, I didn't agree with everything you wrote.
I dont think you can say those who dont collect classics collect moderns (and vice versa). I collect both and I am sure there are quite a few others that do as well. Maybe we should take a poll!
Also, the price can also persuade people to decide what they want to begin to "dabble" in, which can then turn into a larger hobby. One can begin to buy one or two Silver Eagles and then if the price is reasonable, decide to build up. If the price is high, maybe they just keep a few "just to have". I wish I could afford to collect some premium quality $20 Gold, but I can't right now so I focus on other areas.
In 1989 wasn't bid for a York Half in MS-66 about $1,700? Today the bid is $180. Certifying coins was new back then and there were a lot of adjustments to the market but people still like commems and collect them. I think the same thing is going to happen with modern coins. Some coins that were thought to be scarce are going to be found and others will hold the value. There has already been drastic price adjustments up and down. The point is the modern market is here to stay and hopefully will always be popular. As we learn more about it it will make more sense.
Coin collecting is similar to the stock market. at one point "Classics" will be in favor and at another point "classics" will not be in favor due to "moderns"
i'd say classics are blue-chip stocks and moderns are internet/tech stocks.
Mike, of course I'm giving you a hard time, just pointing out that perfectomania is well-entrenched in the classics as well.
My original point is that -- at that time anyway -- you were broadly criticizing a number of things that you obviously had very little experience with. And in some cases, still don't, assuming Russ' price trends are accurate on that Kennedy.
I would be more inclined to listen to Russ if he was saying some Kennedy was overvalued. Just as I'd be more inclined to listen to you in your areas of specialty. Or anyone's critique if based on informed arguments.
Still, I'd probably agree with you on the MS69 state quarters. Even though I've never seen one and don't know what they've sold for. Yes, I'm a hypocrite.
Thanks for everyone’s comments! Glad to see that Mike even showed up on the thread. In summary I did not feel good about the purchase so I did not buy and there is no right or wrong decision about any coin purchase.
Are we suffering from perfectomania?..........maybe so or maybe not. Will the current price be sustained for high grade moderns..........maybe so or maybe not. Only the future will tell us the answer and none of us have crystal balls. Whether you’re a collector or dealer at the end of the day if you’re happy about your purchase.........that’s really all that matters.
Thanks again and big hello from a new board member to all that posted!
Hello all.... Just wanted to let you know that me and Mike took it offline. We explained our sides, went back to our corners and came out swinging... I mean....I mean.... I think he has a better interpretation of what I was saying and at the same time, I'm always looking to read, so when I come across his articles, I will take a look at them. -Dave
Let's see we get a "warning" about 1857 cents in AU with minor reverse damage and full luster obverse maybe being a little over-priced, or MS-66 $20 perhaps about to undergo a minor price correction (in some dates) and then for balance we say that ALL coins minted after 1950 are overpriced junk being sold to fools. Sure that certainly sounds even handed and unbiased.
Coins have been going up and down for many years and it's always been rare to see any "warning" about the viability or the future prospects of any coin. Perhaps that's because dealers have always tended to move into any area that will ac- tually sell, but many now don't want to be dirtied by moderns. Expect to see many more "warnings" for many more years until the last one has sullied himself. Then you better sell because they will be over-priced.
<< <i>1964 Kennedy Half Dollar (3.9 MILLION proofs struck) PCGS PR69 DCAM (one of seven certified) – asking price $6,500 >>
I've been thinking about the above quote from the article. Mike pulled this from a dealer ad, and the thought occurs to me that he may have been confused on this one. That sounds more like the Accented Hair variety in 68DCAM. There are, indeed, seven of those, and the price quoted is about right for that period of time.
This would make far more sense then a dealer being that far off on the numbers for the regular 1964 in 69DCAM.
It was DEFINITELY a 1964 Kennedy half-dollar PR69 DCAM @ $6,500 and the ad appeared in Coin World about a week before I wrote the article. You can take that to the bank -- really!
I have seen 1964 PR-69 DC Kennedys in super snow white frost in the 6000 dollar range. These are few in number and it has been a long time since I have seen even R&I advertise such a gem. Bear
I appreciate the newletters that Mike and other people write (Rosen, Legend, Amspacher, etc.) You are free to interpret the information and then make a decision. Sure beats having no commentary on anything for fear of offending the one collector of that series. Mike's track record on making the right calls looks pretty good from here. Keep it coming. Hold nothing back.
As far as that $1800 MS66 York being worth $180 today. Probably not. A 66 from them in more than half the cases would make 67 or better today. But a bloodbath in the price still occured. The pops of this coin have tripled in the ensuing 13 years. It wasn't rare then and it's not today. Many commems took a particularly good beating as did generic Morgans since they were never anything other than common.
Comments
If you're going to start coming around here and backing up everything you say with facts and thoughtful commentary... then I for one, will refuse to read your posts!
Of course a tiny one point difference in grade can translate into a significant difference in price and you know that I'm aware of that. However, I'm reasonably confident that the price differential between a MS65 and MS67 Arkansas half-dollar (or any of the other examples cited on this thread) will hold up! Can the same be said of the price differential between a MS68 and MS69 State Quarter? I remember when the first one was graded a while back and someone on this forum asked how long it would be before another achieved that lofty designation? Someone speculated years -- but it happened within the week!
Best Regards,
Mike De Falco
Visit Our Website @ www.numisvision.com
Specializing in DMPL Dollars, MONSTER toners and other Premium Quality U.S. Coins
*** Visit Mike De Falco's NEW Coin Talk Blog! ***
In the first message on this topic, someone pointed out this article and wondered what other people thought and as such I gave my opinion on the article in question. I find it great that you have penned other articles and you seem to enjoy what you are doing. From the information you posted about them, it appears as though you have helped the consumer out in avoiding these rip-offs. Perhaps when I have a bit more time, I will search the net for these articles.
The bottom line is, I didn't agree with everything you wrote.
-David
Also, the price can also persuade people to decide what they want to begin to "dabble" in, which can then turn into a larger hobby. One can begin to buy one or two Silver Eagles and then if the price is reasonable, decide to build up. If the price is high, maybe they just keep a few "just to have". I wish I could afford to collect some premium quality $20 Gold, but I can't right now so I focus on other areas.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
i'd say classics are blue-chip stocks and moderns are internet/tech stocks.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
My original point is that -- at that time anyway -- you were broadly criticizing a number of things that you obviously had very little experience with. And in some cases, still don't, assuming Russ' price trends are accurate on that Kennedy.
I would be more inclined to listen to Russ if he was saying some Kennedy was overvalued. Just as I'd be more inclined to listen to you in your areas of specialty. Or anyone's critique if based on informed arguments.
Still, I'd probably agree with you on the MS69 state quarters. Even though I've never seen one and don't know what they've sold for. Yes, I'm a hypocrite.
Are we suffering from perfectomania?..........maybe so or maybe not. Will the current price be sustained for high grade moderns..........maybe so or maybe not. Only the future will tell us the answer and none of us have crystal balls. Whether you’re a collector or dealer at the end of the day if you’re happy about your purchase.........that’s really all that matters.
Thanks again and big hello from a new board member to all that posted!
Kind regards............Validator
-Dave
and full luster obverse maybe being a little over-priced, or MS-66 $20 perhaps
about to undergo a minor price correction (in some dates) and then for balance
we say that ALL coins minted after 1950 are overpriced junk being sold to fools.
Sure that certainly sounds even handed and unbiased.
Coins have been going up and down for many years and it's always been rare to
see any "warning" about the viability or the future prospects of any coin. Perhaps
that's because dealers have always tended to move into any area that will ac-
tually sell, but many now don't want to be dirtied by moderns. Expect to see many
more "warnings" for many more years until the last one has sullied himself. Then
you better sell because they will be over-priced.
<< <i>1964 Kennedy Half Dollar (3.9 MILLION proofs struck) PCGS PR69 DCAM (one of seven certified) – asking price $6,500 >>
I've been thinking about the above quote from the article. Mike pulled this from a dealer ad, and the thought occurs to me that he may have been confused on this one. That sounds more like the Accented Hair variety in 68DCAM. There are, indeed, seven of those, and the price quoted is about right for that period of time.
This would make far more sense then a dealer being that far off on the numbers for the regular 1964 in 69DCAM.
Russ, NCNE
It was DEFINITELY a 1964 Kennedy half-dollar PR69 DCAM @ $6,500 and the ad appeared in Coin World about a week before I wrote the article. You can take that to the bank -- really!
Mike
Visit Our Website @ www.numisvision.com
Specializing in DMPL Dollars, MONSTER toners and other Premium Quality U.S. Coins
*** Visit Mike De Falco's NEW Coin Talk Blog! ***
These are few in number and it has been a long time since I have seen even R&I advertise such a gem. Bear
Camelot
Mike
Visit Our Website @ www.numisvision.com
Specializing in DMPL Dollars, MONSTER toners and other Premium Quality U.S. Coins
*** Visit Mike De Falco's NEW Coin Talk Blog! ***
As far as that $1800 MS66 York being worth $180 today. Probably not. A 66 from them in more than half the cases would make 67 or better today. But a bloodbath in the price still occured. The pops of this coin have tripled in the ensuing 13 years. It wasn't rare then and it's not today. Many commems took a particularly good beating as did generic Morgans since they were never anything other than common.
roadrunner