PERFECTOMANIA?

Validator

I was looking to purchase a registry set of Silver Eagle Proofs (PCGS PR69) from a fellow board member. However at the last minute I backed out. The link below helped be to make my decision. Are some of us suffering from Perfectomania with these modern proof strikes? Interested in hearing what others think.

Kind regards...........Validator



Website Link on this subject!

Placid

I don't know but I would like to have the oregon trail they use for icons

Better hope Russ dosen't read it

Bear

VALIDATOR - Kind of a scary article. It gives one pause , before spending thousands of dollars. Bear

Clankeye

To me it oozes common sense.

nwcs

I'd say that it is true. Which is why I scoured my stuff to see if I could make some money on it!! Alas, I don't have much that would fit the bill. Unless PCGS is willing to give 70s out again...

gmarguli

Mike is a forum member. Too bad he rarely puts new coins on his web site.

Modern proofs can be a tricky game. Modern business strikes a little less. Colect what you like. If spending $10,000+ on a 1958 Lincoln is how you want to spend your money then go for it. Some people think playing the lottery is a good investment.

BNE

It certainly presents one point of view.

But why collect 1914-D cents? It's really just a 1914 (and there are tons of them) with only a little "D" added.
Why collect uncirculated coins? You can get the EXACT same coin for 1/1000th of the price! (If you don't care if it's worn and banged up a little.)

Everyone wants to avoid catastrophic losses. Everyone fears the tenuous concept of "value" in this hobby may land elsewhere, causing us to take a bath. But clearly the article is not written from an entirely -- shall we say -- disinterested vantage point. He wants us to like HIS coins. Great! But he needn't dis other hobbyists' preferences. He may by the lone voice of reason in the numismatic wilderness, but I find his way of expressing it a real turn-off. B&M has found a way to register its skepticism about moderns in some of its descriptions without calling serious collectors of high-grade material idiots.

Yes, there is a big price differential between a modern PR65 and a PR68DCAM, but is that really a surprise? Would the author be as disgusted at the price spread between a PR64 and PR67 1913 Type 1 Buffalo proof? Is THAT perfectomania?

(I do agree that a lot of the MS70s and PR70s are rip-offs, but that is because some funky grading was going on when those grades were given, and a lot of the coins in those slabs aren't "real" 70s. But that's a different problem.)

braddick

I agree with Greg. It used to be, even on these Forums, you were judged by what you collected and not so much by what you know.
(That's flipped-flopped now.)

Just go into buying any series (in any grade) informed to the best of your ability. If you like the full set of ASE's in (PCGS) MS69 and you make yourself aware that it has limited potential but simply for the joy and fun of collecting- go with it.

90+% of what I collect I KNOW will never see a "payday" but I don't care. I have other investment vehicles, coins is a distraction and a hobby.
I occassionally will get the friendly email or PM reminding me I'm "wasting your money buying that coin...".

The difference is I know I am but I don't care- I want the coin anyway.

CarlWohlforth

If you want to collect proof eagles PR 69 is a reasonable grade. They are well made and PR 69 DCAM is a thing of beauty! I think the article would say paying 20 times as much for a PR 70 is bad and an example of perfectomania.

TomB

Buy what you like with money you can afford to lose. With that philosophy and plenty of numismatic knowledge you will be okay. As Greg mentioned, Mike (coingame2000) is a Board member and you are simply reading his opinions and experiences.

supercoin

FYI, this article has been rehashed on this board before, you may be able to find it with a search. There are some factual errors in it, including some that radically change the numbers in his argument. Also keep in mind that he's selling classic coinage, so his arguments will be skewed that way.

On the other hand, I probably share his sentiments on PR70s, but I can bash them with more authority.

But for a set of silver eagles in PR69, you are not paying much of a premium for the grade, so if you like the idea of a PCGS graded set in nice condition and it's within your discretionary income, go for it. Shouldn't be too expensive with the exception of the 1995-W.

tjkillian

I would agree with the author. Note: The American Silver Eagle (ASE) is a legal tender coin for $1, it is just no one would spend it for that. I try to buy coins at the sweet spot, whether that is PR69DCAM or PO-01, where ever the price takes a big jump, I buy right below that.

Tom

RLinn

The key to every transaction is a willing seller and a willing buyer. No guns or coercion allowed. Some buyers are willing to buy what I won't buy. Others are willing to buy with little or no specific knowledge where some would demand much knowledge. I don't buy a lot of cars I can afford because cars don't interest me. I buy expensive fountain pens when a Bic will do just because I enjoy fine pens. I collect certain coins because they interest me where others do not. So what's wrong with each willing buyer determining for himself when proper value has been received?

truthteller

Just remember, if you pay $10000 for a modern ASE coin in a slab, there's got to be another person who wants to pay $10001, if you want to make a profit. There will be many who will pay melt value.

TRUTH

clevegreg

I took a few moments and looked at some of his inventory. A fair amount of nice stuff. Seems that he has alot of toned material that is selling at many multiples of bid. I'm sure many could apply the same arguments he tendered about moderns to toned material too. We have seen enough threads here to indicate that there are alot of opinions on the subject ( Lets not start another one LOL ).

I still want to buy the 1995 W Proof from this guy at $90.00, but he doesn't reply to my emails

FC57Coins

I agree that way too much emphasis has been placed on high grade modern proof and MS coins. Only a miniscule fraction of the total mintage - which bytheway has to be around SOMEWHERE has been graded. On any given day you can go into any given coinshop and see hundreds of mint sets and proof sets lying around. Add to those the hundreds of thousands that are laying around in some sockdrawer somewhere, and I'm sorry - there's got to be a few more MS68 State quarters lying around and I can't see shelling out $500 for one right now. As for the $20000 ASE if someone wants to pay that much for one - let'em have it - as for me, I look at an MS69 one and say - do I pay $33 (or however much) to get a "raw" one from the mint or $20000? I'll take my chances with the mint and IF I get really industrious, I'll go to my local shop and they probably have a really good one there!

Let the buyer beware - and buy what you're comfortable with.

Frank

dakra

I Liked his quote:
"THINK CLASSIC COINAGE… NOT CONTEMPORATY"

Sorry guys but the beginning of his newsletter made some sense:
"In my twenty-eight year tenure as a full time professional numismatist (and fifteen years as an avid collector prior to that) I have never seen such flagrant nor exorbitant examples of OVER PRICING and DECEPTIVE advertising and promotion"

But he more or less states this is due to MODERN coins. That's a load of crap and we all know it. We have seen OVERPRICING and DECEPTIVE advertising and promotion on both sides of the coin. We Had the DEB AND CLIFF show, THE JADE REPAIR show and the THIS OLD TRUNK show.

Coin collecting is similar to the stock market. at one point "Classics" will be in favor and at another point "classics" will not be in favor due to "moderns", then the dot com's will come along and will be in favor, meanwhile "Classics" and "Moderns" will be out of favor. The market will crash, it will come back, it will go up, it will go down.... personally, it sounds as if he doesn't like the roller coaster ride.

I Like this quote:
"A few years ago most dealers wouldn’t bother grading cheap modern coins because it wasn’t economically feasible. However, when they noticed that a few bold sellers were asking (and getting) exorbitantly high prices for this material, their attitude began to change as good old fashioned greed set in"
-- Ha ha ha ha... Now that's funny. Let's say I own the local coin shop, things are slow and I notice how these modern coins are hot, I know business could pick up if I start carrying the modern coins and at the same time I can make a few sales on my "Classic" coins... AM I BEING GREEDY? or trying to find a way to put some food on the table? Put more money towards my savings? What I am doing is expanding my market in the coin market.

I am a modern collector at this point but hope to venture more into the "classics" in the future. It doesn't matter to me which ones I collect but in the process of collecting, I will also be selling to support the hobby. Hypothetically speaking, If I can get $1000 for a 2002-S Penny... that's a damned good investment! It is what the market dictates. I'm prepared to gain a little, lose a little but continue to purchase more coins... that's what the market is all about.

-David



Edited some junk.

cladking

Mostly hogwash and hardly deserving of response. I won't even go into the factual errors
or the opinions since everyone seems to be aware of them. I got a real kick out of the "enor-
mous quantities of pristinely preserved" moderns statement. I guess that's what all those
millions of modern collectors have been doing for all these years- - preserving pristinely!

It was written a long time ago, so maybe he deserves a little break. I'd hate to have every-
thing I ever wrote dredged up.

gmarguli

Coin collecting is similar to the stock market. at one point "Classics" will be in favor and at another point "classics" will not be in favor due to "moderns",

Highly doubtful. Classics are usually collected by a different set of people than moderns. Sure some crossover exists, but not much. The average modern collector doesn't collect classics. The prices of one don't greatly affect the prices of others. It's not like they are competing for the same collector dollar.

BNE

Cladking: the older version was updated to include more "horrendous" transactions. The theme is the same.

One might think that the owners of these hoards of pristinely preserved moderns would get them slabbed to make the fraudulent "killing" described. One has to admire their restraint in not flooding the market with the thousand of 1950s DCAMs that are "obviously" out there. It must be a conspiracy to keep the pops artificially low.

FrattLaw

I generally agree with his opinions even though I collect Moderns. If you look at coins like stocks, no one should place all of there $$$ in one sector of the market. I have started collecting (again) with the Moderns, but will eventually return to the classics, building my portfolio and collection as I gain more experience. As I also gain income, I will be able to put together sets of higher grades including classics. I do not think anyone could go wrong with owning the best of anything. If anyone thinks that there are huge amounts of Modern (especially pre1980s) PR/MS 68/69/70 grades laying around a sock drawer - think again. It is very difficult, if not impossible - to find these coins, but I would not expect a huge tidal wave of great coins to flood the Modern market. If he honestly believes his own statements, there are probably enough collectors/investors for the Moderns that even a modest jump in pop figures will not lower their prices. Simple supply and demand.

And as others have said - collect what you enjoy and like - forget the price or investment value.

Moderns will now and forever be a "sector" of this hobby. I believe a true collection should contain a cross section of all type of coins.

Just my 2 cents!

Michael

beartracks42

I think that his take on Perfectomania is valid and to the point. I do not care if he likes moderns or not...I like some of the modern coins and most of the classics. I can't afford as many of the classics as I would like, but very few of us can.
I will say though, he is about $2000 off on the august CDN on dealer bid/ask for a 1995-W ASE. Bid is $1950 and ask is $2050... it is up to the individual if it is worth that to them. I would rather have a PCGS 1893-S Morgan.

Gary

kranky

While I don't collect moderns, I don't bash them either. Everybody should collect what he or she likes.

But disregarding how many high-grade modern examples may still be out there, and setting aside whether prices are too high or not -- whether it's modern or classic, if you wouldn't pay the price if the coin wasn't slabbed with a certain grade, you might want to ask yourself what you are really buying.

If I ever hit the lottery and could afford to throw money around, I think I would really enjoy selling slabbed coins at shows with the restriction that all coins I sold would be cracked out before handing them over to the buyer.

presleyh

Oh come on Mike tell us how you REALLY feel about moderns! The same can be said for many items. The Chrysler pt cruiser that came out 3 years ago sold at a 30% premium for about a year and it took 6 months to get one. Now they are 3000 under window sticker and sitting around everywhere. One ounce silver bars in the early 70s went crazy, some went to $500.00 each. Then all crashed to melt. I think the current market will continue for a while only because not that many 69 and 70 grades are being handed out. 500 ms-69 coins for a country with a population 270,000,000 people is somewhat a rarity. (Although less than .001 % collect coins). Ya gotta know when to hold em...................

dakra

Prices
The Redbook has the 1936 Commemerative (PDS) for $725 (MS65), he is selling them for $9,500!!!

The Redbook shows the 1938-S "Boone" in MS65 for $165 (MS65) he is selling it for $1,450. For $1350 you can buy the whole set (PDS) according to the Redbook.

The Redbook shows the 1892 Columbian for $650 (MS65) he is selling it for $995
The Redbook shows the 1893 Columbian for $800 (MS65) he is selling it for..okay...$795!
The Redbook shows the 1936 Delaware commemerative (MS65) for $310 his price is only $2,850
The Redbook shows the 1936 Elgin for $250 (MS65) his price is $575
The Redbook shows the 1945 Hudson for $1300 (MS65) his price is $4,375!
The Redbook shows the 1946 Iowa for $100 (MS65) He is offering it at $995... but if it doesn't sell quickly, he will "crack it out of the holder"...hmm...for what reason? To see if it GRADES HIGHER? MR PERFECTOROMANIA??????????????????????
The original article by him now reads... BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.... and I'm back quiet.

-David


Edited For Television

dakra

Michael (Frattlaw)
I agree... with exception to his article. I think he put random thoughts together and blamed everything on the modern market. He called dealers "greedy" for going into the "Modern" Market. He points to the "dishonest" market and blames it on the "modern" coins... when in fact, people in this forum have pointed out that the dishonesty is not only with the "moderns" but the "classics" too.

-Dave

stujoe

<< <i>If I ever hit the lottery and could afford to throw money around, I think I would really enjoy selling slabbed coins at shows with the restriction that all coins I sold would be cracked out before handing them over to the buyer. >>



LOL! Buy the coin and not the holder, indeed!

Russ

<< <i>There are some factual errors in it >>



Supercoin is right. Here's one that sticks out like a sore thumb:



<< <i>1964 Kennedy Half Dollar (3.9 MILLION proofs struck) PCGS PR69 DCAM (one of seven certified) – asking price $6,500 >>



There are actually 53 in that grade, and they generally sell in the $2000 range, plus or minus.

Aside from that, though, I find myself agreeing with his premise, and I'm a modern collector.

Russ, NCNE

TheNumish

Validator,
Have you considered going to your local dealer, picking out nice proof silver eagles and getting them graded yourself? You'd save a lot of money and learn what standards PCGS has for proof-69 deep cameo coins. If there are dates you can't find to certify yourself you can always find the missing coins on ebay. The premiums on proof silver eagles has gone way down in the past year.

supercoin

The biggest price gaffe was the 1995-W Silver Eagle price being quoted like a 1995-P. If I were berating Morgan dollars and quoted a 1893 price while criticizing the price of a high grade 1893-S, how much credibility would you give me?

But overall the biggest problem with the article is lumping all moderns together and insuinating modern collectors who care about quality are stupid.

Sure a PR69DCAM may be indistinguishable from a PR70DCAM. But comparing a 1964 PR69DCAM price to the CDN PR65 bid of $6, for example, is absurd. Unless all you care about is filling a hole with a date.

The last time this came up repeatedly I couldn't take it any longer and posted this photo showing some of those "indistinguishable" differences between a $6 Kennedy and one that a condition-collector might be interested in:



P.S. Russ -- Last time I defend your series for you!

Russ

Now, come on! Just compare that handsome gentlemen to that shiny-headed guy in your icon.

Russ, NCNE

zenny

one can dispute the numbers and the number of exclamation points but i think the bottom line of the newsletter is similar to that of a recent "hot topic" of Legend's that was discussed here not too long ago, namely - buyer beware. simple as that.

he seems to have a strong opinion about this stuff, and it is of course possible, (although he does "guarantee" and i do agree with much of his tirade), okay it's probable, that he is correct. the piece of advice that should be gleaned is to enter into any transaction understanding what you are doing and why you are doing it.

Validator - my guess is you probably did the right thing in backing out of the transaction. for whatever reason it didn't feel right, and whenever it doesn't feel right before you do it, the chances are very good that it wouldn't feel any better afterward.

coingame2000

Hi Placid,

So you like my Oregon Trail half-dollar. Well, it's the neatest coin I've ever owned and I said so many years ago when Bruce Amspacher asked me and a number of other dealers -- "What is the neatest coin you've ever owned?" That question was posed as part of an annual dealer survery conducted by Bruce for his newsletter The BAIR (Bruce Amspacher Investment Report).

I purchased the coin from John Highfill for $1,000 (bid was $250 at the time) at a Las Vegas coin show in November 1985. Eugene Spier, who was my favorite customer then, begged me to sell it to him. I told Gene that I paid way too much for it and didn't want to bury him in it. He said he didn't care and asked me to price it. After careful consideration I quoted him $1,100 and he bought it. Gene decided to sell his 50 piece silver commemorative set in late 1986 so I arranged to have it consigned to the January 1997 Mid-America F.U.N. Sale (it was the cover coin), wherein it realized $5,100. I knew the buyer but lost track of the coin several years later. Anyway, the coin itself is even nicer than the image and I have received numerous offers of $10,000 + for this particular Oregon if I could ever get my hands on it.

Best Regards,

Mike De Falco

oldcameoproofsguy

<< <i>To me it oozes common sense. >>



I have to agree with Clankeye.

I only speak for me and my opinion is purely my own.

I have many diversified investments and am comfortable with my non-coin portfolio. I made a decision to put a modest sum of money into my coin collection. In other words, lately I have decided to collect from an investment standpoint. Frankly, the moderns scare the h*@l out of me as a sound place to dump a lot of cash. People are nuts! They look at low pops in some of the modern issues and they think that these numbers are etched in stone. Then they dole over unbelievable amounts of money to obtain coins that are scarce at best.



Sure there are obvious problems with this article, but it also makes a lot of really valid points. I agree with members of the forum that say collect what you like, modern or not, coin collecting should be fun and enjoyable. However, if you ever decide to start putting a significant amount of money into your collection, do some research and find the coins that are really rare and seem to be overlooked at the time. A good coin investment is one that has both rarity and eye appeal; it has to have both.


My Barbers

clackamas

1 in every 100 americans has a net worth of at least $1,000,000. This country thrives on being the best and competition is at the heart of all business in America. I believe coin collectors to be more intelligent than most people and therefore have a higher drive to get and collect the best of whatever they collect. Its a free market and if there are people who will spend money on PF69 coins then the market (Wondercoin) will find the coins to satisfy their needs. If the coins are more scarce than demand then prices will rise accordingly. Its the nature of the game and IMO things are always fairly priced and speculation has winners and losers. What is wrong with that?

coingame2000

Russ,

The article in question was written quite a while back. In regard to the statement "one of seven certified" and "asking price $6,500" was gleaned directly from the ad of the seller! If there are now 53 of them -- with a value of about $2,000...you just provided rock solid evidence for my stated case.

A -- there was a tremendous population increase!

B -- if your valuation is correct pity the poor guy who bought the coin for $6,500!

TRUE????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Best Regards,

Mike De Falco

Clankeye

"1 in every 100 americans has a net worth of at least $1,000,000.

This country thrives on being the best and competition is at the heart of all business in America.

I believe coin collectors to be more intelligent than most people..."


clackamas, the longer I look at these three statements, the more skeptical I am about the validity of any of them. Especially the third.

Edit: If I used emoticons this would not be as harsh as it may read. Add a nudge-nudge, wink-wink, or whatever those things do.

coingame2000

dakra,

As you know by now I sent you a PM regarding your post, but the more I thought about it I decided to respond on this public forum, particularly when you choose to call me a "JACKASS" -- so here goes....

You compared my asking prices for a number of commemoratives to Redbook "MS65" prices, which is completely ludicrous.

My 1936 PDS Arkansas set graded MS67, MS67, MS66 -- so what do Redbook MS65 prices have to do with my asking price???????????

My 1938-S Boone is graded MS66, not MS65 so DITTO

My Delaware is graded MS67, not MS65 so DITTO

My Elgin is graded MS66, not MS65 so DITTO

My Hudson is graded MS66, not MS65 so DITTO

My Iowa is graded MS67, not MS65 so DITTO. Moreover, the Iowa just sold to a very knowledgeable buyer on Ebay for $940.

I don't understand why you would want to insult me and call me names but I forgive you.

Respectfully,

Mike De Falco

mnmcoin

Hey if he don't want to get into the modern game, than more power to him.

morris <><

ps, some people like a fresh stick of gum, and I guess some people like already chewed gum

dbldie55

Glad I am a coin collector, not a gum chewer. Was that supposed to mean something related to this thread?

clackamas

Clankeye,

Ok here is the ammo behind the statements and the reasoning.

>1 in every 100 americans has a net worth of at least $1,000,000.
1:100 americans have a net worth of at least $1 Mil - Source "The Millionaire next door" a book published about 4 years ago.

>This country thrives on being the best and competition is at the heart of all business in America.

Granted this is a generalization and with the exception of a good majority of our government I believe this is true. This country excels at most endeavors, high tech (CPUs, Graphics, Disk Drives, etc.,), aircraft, spacecraft, military, philanthropy, etc.. I own my own business and we are one of the best on the planet with what we do. The business leaders of this country IMO are driven to be the best. Got an argument against it.

The point I was making is that there are a good many people of the 350,000,000 in this country that need, want and have to be the best of anything and this includes coins.


>I believe coin collectors to be more intelligent than most people..."

An opinion so no source is needed but the average american does not know who the founding fathers are, just watch Jay Leno from time to time.

Brian

cladking

Many of the moderns that have populations of one or two today WILL be going
up to dozens, perhaps hundreds. Others will not. Most of these coins have been
ignored for all these years, now they finally get some interest and enough value
to warrant being graded, and some want to use this as a strike against them. Yes,
these just started getting graded in the last couple years and all the high grade
coins haven't been submitted yet, indeed many haven't even been found yet. I
would be ecstatic if many of my coins ended up having populations of "53"!!

It is important to do your homework if you want to buy high grade moderns in slabs.
These coins are great fun and not expensive to collect in lower grade gem, but the
top of the line slabs often aren't keeping up with the sky rocketing demand. Some of
these may well be found in sufficient quantity to force price decreases, but this should
be the exception. There are no books on moderns where you can go to just look it up.
Price guides for moderns are all either out of date or speculative. There is simply no
alternative yet to finding out for yourself.

supercoin

Mike, your coins are MS66 while the Red Book quotes MS65?

Surely you don't mean to imply that sometimes a significant price difference for a tiny 1-point grade difference is justified?

dakra

Hi Mike,
I received your PM:
"Who's the JACKASS now?????? I could have made you look like a fool with this information on open forum, but I didn't, nor did I stoop to name calling. Maybe a public apology is in order....... "

To Mike and The Message Board: I apologize for calling Mike a (((Jackass)))!

I will say this, when you post a "newsletter" for the public to see, you are bound to get feedback in the form of public opinion.

Now, I'm not a dealer but who are you to call a dealer greedy for entering into the "Modern" market? The "Modern" market has become a hot area right now. If I was a dealer and had people come in and continually say "Do you have any State Quarter Proof Sets". and to see them walk out because I had none. As the dealer, I would be doing the public a service by offering the proof sets. Perhaps as they come in and look at the proof sets I had to offer, perhaps some of my eye candy (classic coins) might appeal to them and I could make an additional purchase.

It also appears that your article blames "modern coins" on all the unscrupulous transactions, but this message board has clearly shown unscrupulous people dealing with both Modern and Classic coins. Your newsletter states "How to lose lots of money…GUARANTEED! " in reference to Modern Coins but you also seem to have some complaints about the prices that "Classic" coins are going for:
Hot News
I guess the "Classic" market has it's pitfalls too but your one sided Newsletter did not point that out!

Coin Collecting is a market, Prices Fluctuate, coins will go for the price that the public demands them for. if I have the only MS67-68-69..etc quarter in the market and next year someone finds a BU Roll and 5 grade the same and mine, the market will adjust... that happens with all coins. While your argument is valid that these high priced flyers will go down in price as more people have their coins graded...etc, the same holds true (for example) of someone coming across a safe full of Morgan dollars.

While I can agree with the premise, Watch out for Unscrupulous people and that some coin prices are outragious and you can lose money when they go down in value... it is also one sided, the bias is towards "Classical" and against "Modern".... hmm, it could be just a coincidence that you deal with "classic" and not with "Modern" coins?

Sorry but I look at the market as a whole. I'm not a Modern basher and I'm not a classic basher. Both have their pitfalls.

-Dave

wondercoin

"He called dealers "greedy" for going into the "Modern" Market"

I was at a dinner last night with Mike and I can tell you he is a neat guy. He is a world class chef and I suggested opening a restaurant here in S. CA that (like the Hard Rock cafe) would sell coins as well - biggest seller to the customers - State Quarter Proof Sets! While Mike didn't "jump" at the idea, it was neat to discuss the 20 or so exceptional Roosevelt Dimes currently for sale on ebay by Mike. These are "modern" coins by my definition, although that line is getting pretty fuzzy. I always felt a good date to start the "modern coins" definition was around 1932, but, geez, even these Roosies are starting to look like classic coins, especially the way Mike described and discussed them!! He truly loves these toned Roosies, while I was admiring his monster toned Seated Dime.

Hey Mike, how about a positive article on monster toned silver Roosies and Wash Quarters - you must admit they are as fun to collect and pursue as most color classic Commems and prices have not run up wildly (yet) for these series!! Wondercoin

coingame2000

Hi Mitch,

Last night was a blast and don't forget the fact that I love Jeffersons too, at least the kind of Jeffersons that comprised the set I sold to Louie Moreno way back in 1988.

Best Regards,

Mike

Clankeye

Brian (clackamas)---

1. Just because you read it in a book (The Millionaire Next Door) does not make it hard fact. I once read a book The Wonderful Journey to the Mushroom Planet. To this day, I do not believe children could build a rocketship in their back yard and travel outside the galaxy.

2. <<The business leaders of this country IMO are driven to be the best. Got an argument against it.>> Three: Enron, WorldCom and Qwest. (Let's throw in Starbucks too, because they have reduced me to a sniveling, caffeine-addled wretch of a man.)

3. Most of those people on Leno could name every person in N-sync.
Most coin collectors can't. Knowledge is relative.

Brian-- I appreciate your spirited defense of your statements. I wish I could give you more of a run for your money. In truth, I tip my hat to you.
Carl

Edited for spelling

dakra

hmm... 'The Toned Coin Cafe' - Not only can you great food prepared for us by our Chef Mike, you can even get some "Toned Coin- Toned T-Shirts", stop by our Coin Shop for the greatest selection of coins ever assembled!

...I can see someone doing that :-)

-David

Russ

Mike,



<< <i>The article in question was written quite a while back. >>



The article was written in September, 2001. The pop numbers haven't changed that much, and the selling price is now higher then it was then.



<< <i>In regard to the statement "one of seven certified" and "asking price $6,500" was gleaned directly from the ad of the seller! >>



Unless you were quoting an ad from quite some time before you penned your newsletter, the seller was misrepresenting the numbers and the value. In the interest of accuracy, you should have researched and noted the real pop numbers and selling prices, pointing out the deceptive nature of the seller's ad, rather then offering a blanket condemnation of moderns as a whole.



<< <i>If there are now 53 of them -- with a value of about $2,000...you just provided rock solid evidence for my stated case. >>



Again, the real market value, regardless of what the referenced ad stated, was lower when you wrote the piece then it is today. You have only to search Teletrade's archives to verify that information.

I have no real bone to pick with you because, as I already said, I agree with your premise. I just believe that in expressing that premise you, as a well known numismaticist, have an obligation to be as accurate as possible.

Russ, NCNE

wondercoin

'The Toned Coin Cafe'

Now, hold on there - I don't want to give anyone the idea that our great Chef is "cooking" up some color coins on the back stove.


Mike: OK: Add Jeffersons to that list. NOW, how about a positive article on your site on super color coins of the mid-20th century (Jeffs, Roosies, Wash quarters, Franklins). Sleeper series of color coins thus far?


Wondercoin.

coingame2000

Hi Dave,

To begin with, I didn't post the newsletter and beside that all you saw is ONE newsletter so to imply that I am one-sided is ridiculous. The fact is, most of the consumer alerts I've authored in my lengthy career have pertained to so-called "classic" coins -- NOT moderns.

Lest I accuse you of being one-sided on this forum I encourage you to go to www.wexfordcoin.com and click on the icon that says COIN TREASURE. There you will find an article I authored in June 2000 warning people not to be taken in by the SS Central America/1857-S Double Eagle promotion...you can't get more "classic" than that

Maybe you didn't have the opportunity to read my SPECIAL MARKET COMMUNIQUE (dated May 1, 1999) that targeted high grade $20 Saint Gaudens. PM me with your address and I would be more than happy to mail you a copy.

What about the numerous articles I penned (beginning in March 1997) that exposed the Wells Fargo 1908 No Motto promotion, which by the way saved countless investors hundreds of thousand of dollars in potential lossess. This coin could hardly be termed a modern issue

Or how about my article "The Generic Coin Market Trap" that appeared in the CDN MONTHLY SUPPLEMENT wherein common date Morgan Dollars and $20 Saint Gaudens were the subject of my consumer alert? I'd love to mail you a complimentary copy of this too!

I have penned countless consumer alerts since my first issue of MARKETWISE in July 1981 and I can assure you that "moderns" were seldom the topic of discussion.

Best Regards,

Mike