Are moderm commems the wicked step-child of this forum?

BSqr

Hello all,

Just got cleared to post but have been reading for a couple of weeks. Over that period I noticed that there is very little discussion of modern commems (even in the buy, sell, trade area). So, I'm just wondering why that is or if my perception is incorrect. On a slightly different note.There seems to be a plethora of knowledgeable collectors around here and I look forward to mooching as much of that knowledge from each and every one of you as possible.

Regards,
BSqr

mbbiker

welcome to the forum BSqr

Bear

Bsqr - That is the very reason we welcome people like you , to write threads about these coins and educate us. You have taken upon youself a heavy burden, to raise up modern commems on this Forum. Do a really good job and you can be awarded Bears "Growl of approval "some day. Regards Bear

Dog97

They still make Commems?

MrLee

Welcome to the boards B Sqr. I guess if you would like to talk to someone about modern commems, just post a thread and ask a question. Those collectors will chime right in, I'm sure.

Bear

Big Doggie - Be nice or you wont get a milk bone for Thanksgiving.

cacheman

Welcome B sqr! I now know where the phrase "B thr or B sqr" came from...........

Dog97

ok ok I was joking! I have every Modern Commemorative made in 1997.
Anybody ever seen a dog tree a bear?

Bear

Big Doggie - If you do that , I wont be able to type on my computor. How would you ever manage without my articulate and erudite verbage, let alone my highly coveted "GROWL OF APPROVAL AWARDS." Bear

Coulport

The lack of discussion of modern commems is reflected in the after market of these 'coins' where they garner 40% back of bid.

Bear

Let the hyping of Modern Commems on this Forum begin and get those prices up, up and away.

BSqr

You said, "The lack of discussion of modern commems is reflected in the after market of these 'coins' where they garner 40% back of bid."

umm, could you translate that into novice please. Thanks in advance.

cacheman

In a nutshell, you lose your shorts. At a minimum, you lose 60% of what you paid for them when you go to sell them.............

Russ

Welcome aboard! Got proof JFKs?

SSSHHH...don't tell anyone, but I sniped an '82 Washington half yesterday.

Russ, NCNE

oldcameoproofsguy

Welcome BSqr,

I know nothing about modern commems, I guess it's your job to educate me on the subject.

My Barbers

BSqr

cacheman,

"At a minimum, you lose 60% of what you paid for them when you go to sell them"

Based upon what? How are you able to make that determination? What are you using as a value basis?
I hate to think that I'm throwing money away so please elucidate. Thanks in advance.

BSqr

Russ,

Thanks. I'm afraid I have no JFKs although I sure do like those fancy haired proofs.

cacheman

BSqr, I don't know squat (hence my name) about modern commems. I was just translating what I thought Coulport said. I have read on this forum though, that they don't hold their value. PM Coulport and ask him to clarify or pose your question on the registry board.

jtryka

Welcome bsqr! I like modern commems just fine, but nobody ever seems to talk about them. There was a bit of angst by many collectors though due to the weakness in the secondary market. For example, I like the sets with the gold half eagles, and I almost never order them from the mint, as I can often buy them cheaper later on. A good example is last year when I bought the 6-coin sets in the cherrywood boxes for the Columbus and Mt. Rushmore series. I think I paid less than $300 each, and I think originally they sold for well over $400. In recent years some of this has changed, especially since the Buffalo dollars (though the Jackie Robinson, Kennedy, Roosevelt and NCS dollar in recent years have done better). Anyway, I am not a fancy slabbed commem collector, I usually like to keep them in the original mint package, and I try not to buy the ones I think are ugly. Anyhow, looking forward to more conversations!

BSqr

jtryka,

Thanks for your comments. I too like unslabbed coins but I'm putting together a registry set so I have two of several coins. Eventually I'd like to have mint packaged sets as well as slabs of everything. Cya round.

BlueCole

Welcome!! (ignore the sign that says :Abandon hope, all ye who enter here!)
what i think we mean about losing 60% of bid is this:

you order a comem from the mint for $10. You keep it a coupleof years, then go to your local coin store and sell it. The dealer will only pay $4 for it becsue the secondary market won't support a higher price. Thus, you lost 60% of your bid price.

Don't let these wisearse's fool you. I've been wanting to get into commems myself, but, there are so many!! and so little time & money!!!

B.

PS: Flirt with my daughter and i'll castrate you.

cladking

Welcome aboard. Now that you mention it, the modern commems do seem
a little underrepresented around here.

dakra

Bsqr,
I'm a newbie and I started collecting commems just a few short years ago. I will agree with some of the posts here. A quick look on ebay shows that you don't get back what you invested into the coins. In some instances a PR69 will go for approx what you paid for it but a PR70 can command a great deal more.

The Uncirculated commems, from what I understand, you can purchase for less than what the mint is offering them at. Again, an MS69 might return your investment but it seems the only way you can make a profit is with an MS70.

All of my commems that I had graded have come back an MS69 or PR69. I'm starting to think it might be better to forgo the US Mint and the grading process and buy older commems on ebay.... but I'm a gambler and will most likely continue to purchase all my new commems from the mint in hopes I get a few MS/PR70's down the line.

-Dave

shirohniichan

Are moderm commems the wicked step-child of this forum?

Nah, they're more like the ugly, bucktoothed, red-headed stepchild of this forum. The Eunice Shriver commem is known around here as the only coin that makes the SBA dollar look good.

I'm sure we could all stand to learn something about them, but the ones who show interest in them write nasty letters to Coin World and complain that too many people are buying commems and thus spoiling their speculation schemes.

Russ

Strange thing about collectibles is that frequently today's dog is tomorrow's hot seller.

Russ, NCNE

gmarguli

The lack of discussion of modern commems is reflected in the after market of these 'coins' where they garner 40% back of bid.

What he is saying is that these coins will bring 40% back ("60% of" for those math impaired) of Greysheet bid. If Greysheet bid is $10 then a dealer will pay you $6 for the coin.

The little discussion is due to the fact that most are ugly, have no history, are politically motivated, and not collected by most real coin collectors.

Bear

Greg - Cmon, please dont hold back. Tell us what you really think about modern Commems. Bear

laserart

I have bought some Mod. Comm. but I only buy the ones that have eye appeal. I like the West Point Comm. even if it doesn't do well. The Buffalos I got make up the difference.

BSqr

Dave,

You said, "All of my commems that I had graded have come back an MS69 or PR69. I'm starting to think it might be better to forgo the US Mint and the grading process and buy older commems on ebay.... but I'm a gambler and will most likely continue to purchase all my new commems from the mint in hopes I get a few MS/PR70's down the line."

I was glad to hear that first part. I'm about to send in my first batch of gold to be slabbed. Keepin my fingers crossed. As to the issue of gold commems losing their value I would point out that this is true for the first half of coins issues but starting with the 1995 Civil War issue and continuing since then almost all gold commems are selling for more than issue price. Think about it, you've got: Oly Flag, Oly Cauldron, Smithsonian, Robinson, FDR, and SLC oly. If you look at the mintage volumes since inception you see they decrease over time with an accute drop after the issue of World Cup in 1994. For example, in 1989 164,500 Congressional gold commem proofs were minted as opposed to only 26,500 Capitol Visitor Center proofs in 2001. Of course the UNC varieties have an even smaller mintagess with five of the last eight under 10,000. With the value of the recent issue UNCs rising I sort of wish I would have started collecting them first instead of proofs but it's too late now. See ya 'round.

BSqr

bttt

jtryka

The mintage of these moderns is not a very relevant factor in determining their value in my opionion. It's supply and demand, and despite the lower mintages of some of these coins, there are some really ugly designs. If the mintage was only 10,000 and only 5,000 people want to buy the ugly coin, then the price suffers. There is also the dynamics of commem spikes that occur from time to time, most recently with the buffalo dollar. I remember when the Statue of Liberty coins came out and the $5 coins quickly shot up to like $500 in the secondary market. When all the hype died down, you could buy them for less than issue price (last set I bought was for about $90, 2-coin unc.), so I wonder how long the Buffalo prices will hold. Either way, I approach these coins by buying the ones I like and ignoring the ones I think are ugly. The only real complaint I have is that the low-relieve designs are used for such low mintage coins. You would think that coins minted in such low quantities could be high relief, like many of the beautiful earlier commems from the 30s.

BillJones

I actually collect the modern gold commemorative coins, but only if they are raw (in the original government plush boxes or cherrywood boxes). I've always been been a bit of a gold bug, and for as little as $80 to $90 bucks per $5 gold coin in Gem Proof, how can you really go wrong?

Last week end I bought the 6 piece Statue of Libery Set in the cherrywood box box for way less than $200. The mint sold them for $375 in 1986, and when they dedecated the statue that set was selling for over $900. Shows you what can happen to moderns. Way too expensive back then. Seems way too cheap (close to melt) now.

And the kicker is I think that five out of the six sides of the coins are attractive. The only one I don't care for is the reverse of the dollar. I think the half dollar is one of the most attractive "cheap" coins in the modern commemorative series.

BTW the Capital Visitor Center half dollar has got to be the ugliest American coin. It took two guys to design the reverse. Both of them must have flunked out of art school.

BSqr

I agree with you about the Capitol Visitors Center. Not creative. But I mean look at why the coin was even minted in the first place.

cladking

Calling all the modern commems ugly is unfair. Several of these coins are quite
attractive and some which aren't, can't be, because of the subject matter. Cast
a hard critical look at the classic commems and they really are no better- - just
older. Granted there are very few of the classics which are ugly and no shortage
of ugly in the newer ones. Many of these celebrate important historical events,
people, and places. Why not collect them?

presleyh

Where can you buy a commem for $10.00? The westpoint $1.00 was 32.00 from the mint. In ms69 slabbed they are fetching 90-100 on ebay. about the same with the proof. The buffalo is going for 100-120.00, and its only a year old. High grade slabbed modern commemoratives are not losers right now, cant predict the same for the future.

Gibbie

Finally, someone else speaks up. Glad to see you BSqr another board newbie here and novice collector. Actually I've inheirited (via my husband's grandfather) a number of modern commemoratives. I've been lurking here for more information but, like you, notice that they don't seem to warrant a lot of traffic. I also learned from my parents that they two are collecting these coins so one day I'll have lots more of them.

So where does one find current market info? The guidebook lists prices quite high on some of these coins especially the American Eagle Silver Bullion coins. I'd expect a dealer to undercut that price, after all he needs to make a profit. Is Ebay the best selling forum? Are there other ways to go about it?

I'm not at all certain that we're actually going to sell these coins, though I do have a number of duplicates that we might choose to part with. I am trying to determine a reasonable market value though for insurance purposes.

Gibbie

BSqr

Hi Gibbie and thanks for the welcome.

For raw, or ungraded, coins I have ffound the Red Book guide book to US coins to be very helpful as a starting point. Also, you can search around the internet at various coin sites to get comparables (althought they will be high). As you mentioned, eBay can help as well. You can search eBay's completed auctions for certain coin types and mintage years to help get an idea of value.

IrishMike

I think this is one of the nicest coins ever minted by the US Mint, modern or not.Link

fcloud

I have picked up about three modern commems after buying the Washington halves and taking a huge loss. I get what I like and skip the rest. If the coin goes up or down I don't care because I bought it only on the fact I like it. Please fill us in and get us up to speed on Modern Commems.

Welcome to the boards!

BSqr

IrishMike,

Yea, I like that eagle too. Although not an original design I relly like this one and the detail one this one isn't bad.

doereme

Hi BSqr, and welcome.I have been a collector since the early 60's and have a little of a lot of classics - designs, denoms ,etc. I enjoy the hobby very much and have inspired two sons and a couple nephews into the hobby.But for some reason I never got into the older commems even though I think a lot of them are beautiful coins and represent a lot of interesting history.So with the 82 Wash. halves I started purchasing them and have most of the moderns. I like the idea of getting historical coinage in pristeen condition. And though their values have not rissen like I would like I believe they will in time. Especially the higher grades. I have one PCGS box that I picked out of my collection and so far all have came back either MS69 or PF69 DCAM with the exception of one 1983 Olym. silver Proof which recieved a 68DCAM.Of course I have had to send a few back to the mint that I was not happy with but I've always gotten a satisfactory coin on my second try. Maybe I've been lucky in that respect.No 70's yet though. Some of our forum members will (usually jokingly I think) bash the moderns but deep down I think secretly they also have a few of them in their own closets Another good thing is they can be had without dropping 4 or 5 figure prices for them as I Rarely have that kind of bux to spend on coins.Wish I did !! So I think if ya likem, collectem, and enjoyem...Happy collecting.....Pat

halfnut

I'm a proud collector of Modern comm. Halves ( there I said it ). I don't spend alot on them and I only buy then aready slabbed. It's a great set to collect and the wife has started to like coins now because of them, she likes to see something different on a coin. I have no plans to ever sell so from this collecters veiw so what if you cain't sell them at a redicouisly high price.



Dan

U S NAVY

WITH PRIDE AND READY TO KICK SOME BU**

BillJones

Hi doereme!

As one of the "chief modern bashers" I'd like to make my position quite clear. There's nothing wrong with collecting modern coins. As I stated earlier I collect all of the modern commemorative sets that have one or more gold pieces in them. I also collect Proof sets.

My only problem with moderns is exclusively centered upon OVERPRICED modern coins. If you are paying several hundred dollars for a modern coin that has a catalog value that is a small fraction of that because the coin is in a MS or PR 69 or 70 holder, you are headed for financial disaster IMO. Collectors can certainly buy and collect anything that they like, but I think that new comers should be aware of the great financial risks that they assume when they pay huge premiums for condition rarity in modern coins.

If you want to take the chance go ahead, but at least you have been warned.

cladking

All regular issue modern coins in MS-60 are worth a small fraction of the gem price.
Hence if you collect any high grade moderns you are headed for financial disaster.
Otherwise, I would merely ask which are OVERPRICED!

Does this apply to all classics also? No classics? We'd love to know which.

TheNumish

I grade a lot of modern commems and sell them on ebay. For the common coins usually after all the ebay fees, grading fees and premium I pay to pick coins I net $8-$15 profit per item. Take a Mt. Rushmore Half. I pay $7 or $8 for the coin, $9 for grading($8 for grading and $1 postage) and a few bucks to ebay. Coin usually goes for $25-$29. That's if the coin is a 69 deep cameo. The ones that grade 68 deep cameo I loose money on. I don't think that's crazy premium to pay for a graded coin. I think it's fair for me and fair for the buyer. The scarce coins like Jackie Robinson $5 in Unc or low mintage 1996 Olympic Unc dollars the profit margin is a lot higher but not crazy like it was a few years ago. I think the prices have gone down to a reasonable level. Of course there are a lot of people who ask big money for their slab commems but do they really sell them at those numbers? Maybe a few but the people who collect them learn real fast they don't have to pay so much.

BillJones

We’ve been though this time and time again, Cladking. You have your opinion, and I have mine. As I remember it, your high grade modern coins are mostly raw and you don’t spend huge amounts on high grade modern slabbed coins.

It’s one thing to go though rolls and pick exceptional coins. It’s another to spend thousands of dollars for a slabbed 1954 cent that sells for $1.25 in MS-65. If you think that an MS-68, Red 1954 cent that could tone or grow spot tomorrow and which might be duplicated from one of the many rolls that exist is good buy at $3,500 or more, good luck to you. I won’t touch that purchase with a ten foot pole.

AND if you want my opinion on over priced classics, I’d be weary of Bust Dollars in the current market. Even damaged ones are selling for huge premiums over any of the price guides, and those of us who have watched and collected these coins for many years know that they are not that rare. Maybe the current demand frenzy, which has been going for over three years now, is permanent, but if the music stops and you are holding the material, especially the PROBLEM material, you could be very sorry.

Also there are some overgraded and played with early classic coins in slabs (not ACG) that I would avoid. If you don’t like the coin for the grade that’s marked on it, don’t pay the huge premiums that dealers are now asking for them.

shirohniichan

All regular issue modern coins in MS-60 are worth a small fraction of the gem price.

Has anyone ever seen a regular issue modern coin in MS-60? Unless you search bags, it's not hard to find them in MS-63 for no price premium over the supposed MS-60 coins. In fact, it usually isn't hard to pull MS-65 coins out of mint sets for the price of a regular set (yes, I realize some Sacs and a few others have come ugly straight from the Mint).

cladking

Yes. But I've been doing this for years. I know what I'm looking for and where
to look for it. You also have to find sets to look at. Newbies would find all this
quite daunting and somewhat expensive and time consuming. The fact remains
that it makes no more sense to buy high grade Morgans than high grade Kennedies,
or for that matter a legitimately rare high grade bust dollar. The dollar only has
$4.50 worth of silver in it so you'll have to find someone willing to take a chance
to pay any more than that.

BillJones

The fact remains that it makes no more sense to buy high grade Morgans than high grade Kennedies, or for that matter a legitimately rare high grade bust dollar. The dollar only has
$4.50 worth of silver in it so you'll have to find someone willing to take a chance
to pay any more than that.

Well hell's bells, Cladking, you could say that for the entire numismatic hobby and for a lot of other things.

What good are diamonds? You can't eat them, you can't make sensible clothing with them and you can'g build shelter with them, but for some reason many women love them.

What I'm saying is that within the hobby paying $3,500 for an MS-68 coin that sells for $1.25 MS-65 is a financially risky move.

supercoin

What I'm saying is that within the hobby paying $3,500 for an MS-68 coin that sells for $1.25 MS-65 is a financially risky move.

Perhaps, but a $3500 modern coin is definitely on the high-end of the scale. If to be fair you compared that to the high-end of the scale for classic coins, that $3500 looks more like 35 cents.

BSqr

so true supercoin