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Your coin's pedigree, how important is it to you?

DAMDAM Posts: 2,410 ✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
I notice many Registry Sets list where the owner got their coins, a dealer, a forum member, an auction, etc. How important is it to keep the pedigree going. And when should it start?

Coins carry their pedigree especially when at auction. Some have have only a couple while others have many previous owners listed. Does this influence your decission about whether you are going to buy a coin or not? Especially if it's an Eliasberg, Newcomb, Childs, etc.

Not knowing how long dealers keep records I've often thought about trying to track down some of my coins previous owners to see where its roots are. Probably an impossible task. That's why I never tried I guess.

DAM
Dan

Comments

  • kieferscoinskieferscoins Posts: 10,017 ✭
    Pedigree research can be fun, and challenging at the same time. The type of coins I purchase are lower value type coins and most cannot be pedigreed. I list any pedigree that is on the PCGS slab in my type set. Adds something extra to the coin (dosen't have to be monetary).

    Cameron kiefer
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I purchased one Silver Morgan Dollar (PCGS graded) from the "Bass Collection," and after receiving the coin, it looks overgraded. The pedigree is nice, but the grade seems high because it was a "Bass." There just seems to be too many bag marks. The pedigree does seem to raise the price and value of a coin just a bit, but it wasn't so much that it would chase someone away from purchasing.

    So, with that said. Does anyone else feel PCGS overgrades based of whom the previous or current ownership?

    Tony

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Probably doesn't add much value but it's fun. I own a couple 1858 patterns from the Eliasberg collection and it's intriguing to know the pedigree from the day it left the mint!

    Dealer/Collector pedigree's are most useful when buying a coin. If it's from a dealer (ie: Eagle Eye Photo Seal) or collection I respect, then I'm much more likely to send for the coin (or go to the auction, etc). I cant tell you how many hundreds of dollars I've spent shipping substandard coins back to dealers. I've basically quit doing it!
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • HuliganRSHuliganRS Posts: 345 ✭
    In my Kennedy's I give credit to people whom I got the coin from.
    ">My PCGS Franklin Registry Set
  • keithdagenkeithdagen Posts: 2,025 ✭
    I find that my pedigree seems to attract a lot of interest every time I sell image

    Just kidding image

    I have one pedigreed piece, and it's not even on the holder. My Seated Half from 1858 was from the Evergreen collection (I sold my Walser Lincoln cent).
    Keith ™

  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭
    I list where I obtained my coins from. If it says Jordan pedigree, it means I was the original submittor to PCGS.

    I think it would be neat to have a coin from a famous collection.
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • DAMDAM Posts: 2,410 ✭✭
    Brian,

    I think it would be neat to have a coin from a famous collection

    Me too Brian. Someday I want to own an Eliasberg coin. Because I collect by type, it won't matter what denomination or date it is. Something that's not too expensive, I can tell you that. I just haven't seen the right one yet I guess.

    I've watched his coins, since the auction, as they come up for sale. It's amazing how, in some cases, the person who bought the coin at auction really took a bath, compaired to what it's selling for now. I bet there was a lot of exitement at that auction.

    Tony,

    So, with that said. Does anyone else feel PCGS overgrades based of whom the previous or current ownership?

    Since I was talking about the Eliasberg collection; after the auction (the non-gold coins in 1996/97) I noticed a lot of the coins in the catalog received a 1 grade bump when certified. Some received a 2 grade bump. Made me wonder whether the grading services got caught up in the excitement or if B&M intentionally undergraded so as not to be accused of trying to over hype the coins.

    After reading some of the replies, I think I'll get off my butt and see about trying to track down pedigrees for a couple of my coins.

    Thanks for your responses.

    Dan
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,732 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always wanted an Eliasberg 1883 No Cent Liberty Nickel. Since he had rolls, there are many. Ironically, the first I saw sold for $85 on Teletrade (only been looking for less than a year). I didn't have the budget at the time. The next sold for $110. The last four on Ebay have sold for as much as $230. (These are all MS64 examples).

    My local dealer knew I wanted one and picked up a MS65 example for me, and paid just a little over the MS65 price. He did note that trying for an upgrade would be risky, calling it right at the bottom for the grade.

    Some day I would like to get a Bass piece, would love to have one of his pattern Liberty Nickel pieces.

    Other than that, I do not collect the types of coins that really require keeping track of who owned them before.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • KeyrockKeyrock Posts: 961 ✭
    I only have a Childs FE cent (of notable pedigree) any other reference I make to coins in my set I try to recognize the previous owner.

    Coins that I get from board members I always list since they usually give me a great deal and it becomes a win-win situation. I have also mentioned a few dealers who have worked with me and I felt that they should get some credit in helping my reach my goal of completion.

    but in general it doesn't sway me one way or the other. It would be cool just to have one from each major collection just because of the history associated with it.

    Rich
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    DAM,

    Very Interesting!

    Tony

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dam:

    I was sitting behind Parrino when he bought the 1913 nickel. I was new to collecting and didn't know who this short guy with the Hawaiian shirt was. It didn't take long to learn. It was an exciting auction but your right, the prices were too high. It's like stocks - you don't realize the loss until you sell them.

    Re: overgrading. Can you imagine this 1913 nickel showing up and the grading services claiming to NOT know who submitted it?? I can hear it now..."you don't want this coin in the OTHER guys holder, do you...?" It's the only way that coin graded so high.

    By the way, is that a man on the nickel or a woman on steroids?? Sure would hate to meet her in a alley!
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭
    I don't think it adds value. But it's kind of neat! I will be sending in a set to be Pedigreed this week.

    What do you guys think

    "The Spooly Collection"
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • boiler78boiler78 Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lakesammman- If you ever get tired of the 1858 Eliasberg patterns (small cents I assume) I would be very interested in them. I bought a couple of the small cent patterns myself and I've been kicking myself for not trying to buy the full set at the sale.

    It has been my experience at auction, that if the consignor is living the auction house tends to overgrade and if the consignor is dead they undergrade.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    boiler78

    I'll make you the same offer!

    My "P65"s both came back P64's (lots 123, 130)- what was your experience with having them graded??
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • boiler78boiler78 Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought #122 and #129. Lot #122 came back pr 65 and lot #129 came back pr 64. I already had a J-193 at the time of the auction or I would have bid on it. In my lot viewing notes I graded it 65+ and I agreed with the catalog grade on lot 130. Have you tried to upgrade either coin? Hindsight being what it is I wish I had tried to buy them all. How many 1858 small cent patterns do you have? There is at least one other forum member that I know who is collecting them and a few who are laying under logs. Good luck finding them they are getting scarce! image
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you ever need a new home for lot 129 especially, let me know. Checking my notes tonight from the catalog, I wrote "beauty", bidder 316 - were you there in person?? I was just getting into IHC's at the time and was hesitant to pay "that kind of money", especially with my wife present. Now, in retrospect, it was a bargain! I have about 10, buying now and then when the price is right and the hole is empty. How about you??
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    One of my favorite coins is an 1883 No Cents nickel from the Eliasberg collection.

    It's only MS64 worth about $70 and I paid $260 for it just because of the pedigree.

    It's great to own because it is a coin with TWO stories!

    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • boiler78boiler78 Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lakesammman- Yep that was me bidder 316. You made me look, I just pulled my yellow bidder card out of my catalog. I am trying to piece together the 12 piece set. I currently have 6 different types. Please turn your PM on so I can take this discussion out of this thread. Don't worry I won't try to talk you out of your coins.image
  • DAMDAM Posts: 2,410 ✭✭
    boiler78,

    It has been my experience at auction, that if the consignor is living the auction house tends to overgrade and if the consignor is dead they undergrade

    That's an interesting observation. Is it your opinion the same happened at the Eliasberg auction? I haven't done research to verify my theory. My comment was based on lots I followed and lots that came up for sale after the auction, that had been graded.
    Dan
  • boiler78boiler78 Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DAM- Another problem with the grading of the Eliasberg coins was that NGC loosened their grading standards considerably (IMO) in order to get the bulk of the collection in NGC holders. The strategy worked sort of. NGC won the battle but lost the war. Most of the Eliasberg coins and session 2 in particular , went directly to NGC for the extra point. PCGS and NGC were neck and neck at the time but now six years later NGC is still trying to catch up. I think NGC has made a come back but they are still suffering from the negative image created with the loose grades assigned to the Eliasberg coins.

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If someone is looking for a Eliasberg coin, there is a IHC 1909-S NGC 66RB on ebay currently.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    boiler78

    Still learning how to use the forum .... updates, info, etc ... I can be reached at Lakesammman@hotmail.com
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dam - I viewed Session Two lots in Wolfeboro and can state that, for the most part, the coins were undergraded by one to four points on a consistent basis. The bust halves and bust dollars, in particular, were of extremely high eye appeal and far too conservatively graded. It was rare instance that a coin was overgraded in the catalog and even somewhat scarce if it was correctly graded!

    With that said, I agree 100% with what Boiler78 had to say about NGC - they are just now recovering from that decision.
    Early Dollar Set
  • DAMDAM Posts: 2,410 ✭✭
    tradedollarnut,

    I didn't have a chance to view the coins except by catalog. I assumed there would be strong bids on many of the coins, but seeing coins selling for WAY over current prices had me baffled.

    What would prompt B&M to undergrade the coins by so much? Were they trying to add additional electricity at the auction by having undergraded coins go for prices well over what they had estimated the grade to be?

    Yours and boiler78's remarks make me think that way.
    Dan
  • prooflikeprooflike Posts: 3,879 ✭✭
    I have only one pedigeed coin, an NGC MS66 1930-S Mercury Dime Pittman, paid little premiu due to the pedigree. It's a nice coin.

    image
    image
  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭
    I really like my "Shepherd-Heller" commems. The "Shepherd-" part is meaningful. image
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