1792 half disme I wish I could afford

mrdq

SOME DAY ... maybe

Russ

WOW! That thing is beautiful, and amazing condition. Somebody a long time ago had incredible foresight to preserve it so well.

Russ, NCNE

DMWJR

Good God! Why would anyone put that on EBAY!!!!!

mbbiker

Just wanted to know what is somthing like this worth becasue 18,050 reserve not met!!! seems like a lot to be maybe because i couldn't even pay shipping on somthing like this

boiler78

Thats a six figure coin.

matteproof

The 1792 half disme is almost always a high ticket coin (pronounced DISS-me, like when a rapper say’s don’t “dis-respect” me). The 1792 half disme is rich in “history.” Some claim that the coin was struck from George Washington’s personal silver hoard. The babe on the front of the coin is said to be Martha Washington (who knows?)

matteproof

dorkkarl

i thought the pronunciation was "deem"? whatever, that coin has to be real high on anyones wish list. i'd take 1 in any grade.

K S

matteproof

<< <i>i thought the pronunciation was "deem"? whatever, that coin has to be real high on anyones wish list. i'd take 1 in any grade.

K S >>



Hi Karl! Yes, there are some who say the pronunciation is "deem." There is another crowd that says it is "diss-me" and yet another who says it is "diz-me." No one really knows for sure, so it adds an even deeper mystique surrounding this coin. There is also a "Disme" - 10c piece - which is RARE.

I suspect the "disme" word/lettering can be traced back to the French language. The Founding Fathers were terrific linguists (many of them speaking French, German, Latin, etc). At this time in our Nations history, there was a severe attempt to distinguish ourselves from anything "British." So, often "foreign language words" (i.e. those words not directly English) were employed. Of course, since most early Americans spoke ONLY English, the practice went in the garbage basket pretty quickly. That is why we now call a Disme - a DIME!

matteproof

BillJones

The reserve on this piece is probably well over $100,000. My guess is that the reserve sign would probably go down somewhere in the $125,000 to $150,000 range. I'd really have to see this coin before I would bid on it although it's probably very nice. About the only thing that might be wrong with it is that has been dipped somewhere along the line, but that's just a quibble.

The best one I have ever seen "in person" was Mint State, never dipped and had great color. The problem was that there were some adjustment marks on the reverse.

I think that one could make the argument that this is the first U.S. coin. George Washington in his 1792 message to Congress described the striking and distribution of these pieces as, “A small beginning” in U.S. coinage.

I've got one in NGC VF-30. It's the pride of my collection.

nwcs

Wow! That is some coin! I wish I could find a little cache of them!

JimD

Disme was derived from the French Language. It referred to the decimal system meaning 10th.

It should be noted that these coins were not minted at the U.S. Mint but in the basement of John Harper's (saw maker) residence at the corner of Cherry and 6th street in Philadelphia. They were struck by Adam Eckfeldt and others who had been hired to work at the soon to open Mint. This took place sometime between July and September of 1792. The first coins were struck at the U.S. Mint December 17, 1792. In an article in "The Numismatist", vol. 109 (June 1996), and interview with Eckland by John McAllistar reveals that the silver used for these coins was deposited by Gen. Washington in the form of bullion and coinage.

dorkkarl

i'd think the fugio cents and/or nova-constellatios would be considered 1st, wouldn't they? not sure it matters though, any coin that old could be #1 in my book. how about a continental dollar?

K S

JimD

I think any debate over which is first has to be qualified.

1st coins authorized by Congress
1st coin authorized by Congress for general circulation
1st coin struck at the U.S. Mint
1st coin struck at the U.S. Mint for general circulation

lordmarcovan

Some day, here, too. But I will never be able to afford one in that grade. The best I can even dream about is a Fine.

That was amazing!


BTW, I am with the folks who pronounce it "deem", a la Francais.
I used to say DIZ-me, myself, but defected over to the "deem" camp not long ago.

The only way to clear up this debate would be to listen to some of George Washington's radio or television addresses. Then we'd know which pronunciation he preferred.

1jester

This is sheer conjecture, but perhaps that half-deem used to belong to George. Isn't it plausible that as a token gift, he might have been presented with an example of the product? It seems like an extraordinarily nice example (perfect strike, without adjustment marks, etc), and it's fantastic that such a coin still exists in that nice shape. I'm in awe.

JimD

1jester, These coins were made specificaly for George Washington using silver he had deposited. It would be conjecture to assume he had personaly held this coin, but he was the original owner.

KlectorKid

Wow thats a nice coin but it could take me 20 years to save up for it i have 1 in g condition but i need to get a nicer 1.

1jester

Yes, Jim, I realize he ordered the coins and deposited the silver for them. And obviously this particular piece was an unusual coin at the time, and was put away and protected to our day. It obviously was a special coin. That's why I conjecture that it was given to an important person, perhaps George. Was George Washington a coin collector, anyway? Maybe E. Brasher was the owner. Or......King George III?!......

matteproof

You know, the 1792 half disme is a scarce coin, and numismatically important too. However, examples ARE around. They are NOT impossible to acquire (though at a cost). However, the 1802 Half Dime is rarer - and exceedingly more important - in my view.

Over the past 5 years or so, I have seen no less than Ten 1792 half disme's offered for sale, either privately or at auction. I have only seen about Three 1802 Half Dimes offered during that same time frame. In the past year or so, I have seen four 1792 half disme's offered. I have not seen ANY 1802 Half Dimes offered at all.

Strictly speaking, the 1792 half disme is NOT required to complete a Set of Half Dimes. The 1802 half dime IS required. While I love the 1792 half disme, I think the 1802 Half Dime is THE most important half dime. The surviving populations bear this out. As of today's date, the PCGS 1792 half disme pop is 56, while the 1802 half dime population is 7.

Furthermore, the 1797 "13 stars" half dime has a population of 3 at PCGS! RARE. Don't confuse the 1797 "13" stars with the 1797 "15" stars, or "16" stars. The "13" stars is RARER.

At the NY ANA, one dealer was showing an example of the 1792 half disme in raw VF. In addition to it being a 1792 half disme, it was also an "error coin." I saw the coin "raw" but I understand it found it's way into a PCGS holder. Not sure if this so.

matteproof

BillJones

The 1802 half dime, which has an estimated population of 45 to 50 pieces, is far scarcer than the 1792 half disme, which has a survival of an estimated 300 pieces. Because of that rarity the 1802 is a bigger treasure in the eyes of many collectors, but I'm not one them.

I have a strong interest in history, and the 1792 half disme is far more important historically. It has a claim to the distinction of being first U.S. coin issued for general circulation by the U.S. government. There is a general agreement that Washington did donate his silver for the coin. And Washington did mention the in his 1792 report to Congress.

The 1802 half dime is rare date that was made under legitimate circumstances. It was not like the 1804 Dollars or the 1913 nickels that were made for presentation or illegitimate reasons. For that reason it deserves the respect that collectors have given it since the days of H.P. Newlin (the 1880s). Still rarity is most of what it has going for it, and for that reason I prefer the 1792 half disme.

Those who are interested in early half dimes should purchase the book, "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837," by Russell J. Logan and John W. McCloskey. That is a much better source for estimating rarity than the PCGS population reports.

matteproof

Great thoughts Bill. I understand what you are saying about the 1792 half disme and it's powerful historical background. Though the date is not required for a set, it would be a great addition to a half dime collection anway. I agree with you on the Logan McCloskey book too. It is excellent. Thanks!

matteproof

1jester

This is definitely off the subject, but does anybody have any idea how many 1860-O dimes survive? I'm curious because I have one, but don't have any population reports. Thanks for any help.

matteproof

Hi ijester. Are you talking about the 1860-O dime or half dime?

matteproof

1jester

Hi matteproof.

I'm referring to the dime, the key date 1860-O, of which 40,000 were minted. I always thought that that particular coin should be very rare, due the unique circumstances brought on by the war and the siege of New Orleans. That led me to believe that there are very few of those coins left, far fewer than the mintage figures would indicate. I'm wondering how many have survived, and if it's not undervalued. I've only seen one for sale (besides mine), a few months ago, on eBay, and it was an AU-53 example. I would think it is about the highest grade in existance. Mine is graded VG-10 by PCGS, but I think it deserves a higher grade, since you can clearly read LIBERTY. And it has nice blue tones, with mint luster in between the letters.

matteproof

Hi 1jester. Thanks for the clear up. Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the "DIME" series. I am very familar with "half dimes." I wish I could be of more help in your question. I do know that the 1860-O dime is TOUGH in anything above VF. I've seen a few lower grade "raws" on Ebay, but I always try to avoid raw coins unless I can see them LIVE (who knows what lurks in those surfaces).

All the best 1jester.

matteproof

1jester

thanks, matteproof.

I do have a half-dime, an 1851-O. I think it's really neat. And very small!

northcoin

Who is offering one of these in a low grade privately? Is the Redbook pricing correct? Has anyone seen one in an NGC or PCGS holder being offered for less than $10,000.00?

TheNumish

Would love to know how the coin ended up in Germany. Maybe it was a souvenir from someone visiting during that time period.

Hey Mr. DQ,
If you did get that coin would you be dipping it in chocolate?

KoinKollector

<<Au53......I would think it is about the highest grade in existance. Mine is graded VG-10 by PCGS>>


without a doubt that is conisdered a high grade consensus grade, but there is a MS67 NGC one floating around.

1jester,
I think you asked the questions about the 1860-O in another thread, correct? If thats not the case, feel free to PM me and I can share some info on it

Lakesammman

Wow, wow, wow.....what's that doing in Germany!!

Thanks for sharing that one!

northcoin

Anyone concerned about authenticity? Does it seem odd that it is being offered for sale from a foreign country and purchase in US would be thorugh "a dealer" - thus avoiding any problem with mail fraud. OK, it's in an NGC holder, maybe that would be where to start to confirm that NGC actually has a record of grading the coin.

goyankeez

Great coin! I'd settle for one in any condition. It was great learning so much about the history of this coin from everyone's posts.

As for the auction itself. The seller has poor feedback, is located in Germany, and hasn't sold anything before on ebay. There's no credibility. I'm interested to see if he relists it.

BillJones

Here is my 1792 half disme, which is in an NGC VF-30 holder. The Red Book price at $18,000 in VF is too low. It would take somewhere around $30,000 to get a real VF. A great many of these tiny coins are damaged. Many are bent; others are holed or holed and plugged. Although there are over 300 in existence, most of those are in pretty rough shape. I think you would be pretty disappointed in what you would find for less than $10,000 these days.

jadecoin

If you are interested in an 1802 half-dime, please contact us. We can make one available with very-fine details, but surface damage which brings the net-grade down to "very-good to fine". Serious Inquiries only, please.

Sincerely,
jadecoin
www.earlyUS.com