Thoughts about SEGS?

JD

Think I got the letters correct. Is this company still in business? What are your thoughts about their creditability?

FC57Coins

As far as MS coins, I've found SEGS to be usually a full point below the stated grade. With circulated coins they seem to be more on the mark. Most dealers I talk to only send their "B-Team" pieces to them.

Frank

darktone

When they first started grading at shows I showed a mercury to Larry and he said it's been rubbed but It would probably go a 66 FB. There was no way I was going to have that coin put in a 66 holder. I would have called it MS62 FB maybe 63. After that I have really never considered using them. mike

MastaHanky

They were doing good for a while, but they've slipped noticably. Quite unfortunate, because Larry Briggs is one of the most knowledgable guys out there.

Oh, and their slabs get my vote for ///BEST SLAB DESIGN EVER. I absolutely love the top-viewing labels.

toyonakataro

Sent 2 coins in SEGS holder to tonelover for review(thanks Jon!!)
1849 seated $ MS61 turned out to be a AU with AT
1856 seated half doller MS64 turned out to be a cleaned, net AU coin.
I sold them both at ANA show and the dealer whom I sold them pointed out exactly the same problems on those coins as Jon did.
I brought another 4 coins in SEGS holder at a show and asked a dealer to cross them to NGC at MS60 or above
1829 10c MS62 DNC for too much wear
1860-o seated $ MS62 crossed at MS60
1847 seated $ MS61 DNC for light wear
1837 half dol MS62 crossed at MS61( I think I was lucky on this one)

Now, what do you think?

dorkkarl

known briggs a long time, one a heckuva smart dude, in my opinoin. he runs the business w/ his brother, who is not quite so bright. agreed though that they had an opportunity to turn their cert. service into something special, but fell into the greed trap. however, they will holder "problem" coins if you just have to have plastic. i doubt that they actually mist most of the problems that aren't mentioned - they probably are just much more lenient about metnioning them in hopes of retaining customers. but briggs himself is one very sharp dude, extremely knowledgeable, and has a stunning personal collection.

K S

dragon

JD,

Although a few people here like them, I put them solidly as a weak second or even third tier company and I would never buy any SEGS coin unless I could see it in person beforehand, and then only at a large discount to the stated grade in most cases. I have seen quite a few blatantly problem coins in SEGS holders (without mention) as well as grossly overgraded pieces, and I would not trust their judgement. It is my impression that many people send coins to SEGS after they are rejected by a first tier firm or just to have them overgraded so they can advertise them on Ebay or another sight unseen venue to unsuspecting buyers. My opinion only though.

Dragon

dorkkarl

ok, gotta get my usual plug-in. i would not buy ANY coin in ANY holder w/out seeing it first. if you simplify your life by considering all the services to be on a single tier, this policy makes 100% sense.

K S

vam44

Saw a 78cc dollar in 66 in their holder, obviously "worked on".The owner doesn`t believe it`s worked on and sends all his coins to them.
I treat a segs coin as I would a raw coin.

supercoin

I've purchased MS Ikes in SEGS holders that I've been happy with. Unfortunately never gained much acceptance among Ike collectors, though. Which is too bad as PCGS could use some competition, especially some with a same-sized holder.

RotatedRainbows

I have discovered a few nice undergraded coins in their slabs but you REALLY have to know your coins to be able to safely buy their slabs. As stated above treat them like you would a raw coin and you just might get lucky and run across a piece worth considering.

kieferscoins

Opinions on SEGS thread

Cameron Kiefer

jom

I don't know about their grading standards but I do like a few of their ideas.

1) Grading: To me as long as the service is consistant it is a GOOD service for grading. It is irrelevant that their coins are over-graded as long as they are consistant doing it. Another words, you should know what you are getting when you buy. Having said this, I haven't looked at enough SEGS coins to make a judgment here.

2) Their idea of putting the coin info on TOP of the holder is quite innovative. Me like.

3) I also like what they did with the Jefferson nickel series. The way they show the Full Step is pretty unique. I like services that give you INFORMATION about the coin. Any service that wants to strive toward the old ANACS way of doing it is fine by me. Note: the old photo grades from ANACS gave a grade for each attribute of a coin. Strike, luster, surface etc etc.

jom

dorkkarl

jom, you are 100% right on

K S

prooflike

SEGS - ACG - PCIgold - they are all the same, you know you aren't getting what you paid for.

BillJones

I have to disagree that SEGS hoders are the best. To me they are a pain. They just slightly too big to fit into NGC boxes which I have to pack them in something else when I take them to a show. The holder only needed to be slightly to fit properly.

Also have you ever tried to break a SEGS holder? They are made of kryptonite. They can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

vam44

<< <i>I don't know about their grading standards but I do like a few of their ideas.

1) Grading: To me as long as the service is consistant it is a GOOD service for grading. It is irrelevant that their coins are over-graded as long as they are consistant doing it. Another words, you should know what you are getting when you buy. Having said this, I haven't looked at enough SEGS coins to make a judgment here.



jom >>



Huh?
Newbies will be screwed, if segs consistantly overgrades or overlooks "minor" problems.Accugunk quality is fairly well-known, although they still get some suckers now and then.Segs still has some semblance of credibility(?)but,if they continue to overgrade and "overlook" problems, they will join pci on the road to the bottom with accugunk.

jtryka

For gold, they are fairly consistent in overgrading by a point or two at least. My biggest concern is that I've seen a lot of PL gold in their holders, and to me it looks more like they've been whizzed, though I have seen a few legit PL gold coins in their holders, the vast majority I would avoid.

mdwoods

While I don't usually consider SEGS to be in the top tier of grading companies, I recently had a SEGS red Liconln gain a point. And I submitted it as a crossover to PCGS with instructions to cross it at any grade. They are a lot better than ACG, or PCI in my opinion. Mark.

littlewicher

I think that some of their older graded coins might be good, the more recently graded coins just plain suck!

dpoole

mdwoods--I suspect you agree that you experience was fortunate--and atypical for SEGS. Perhaps more typical was my submission to PCGS for cross at any grade from SEGS, on two MS Lincolns (this submission followed failed crossover efforts at both PCGS and NGC). The 17S went from MS65 to MS64. The 16S went from MS65 to MS63. I did not disagree with those determinations, and in fact was fortunate to have retained the Red designation on one of them.

mdwoods

dpoole, I agree, I was very lucky. SEGS is not my first choice for grading companies. I might have them grade problem large cents though.
Mark.

dorkkarl

segs will overlook such problems as , ohmygod, a 18th century large cent that has been lightly cleaned. pcgs won't even slab em, which is stupid, as if a 1799 large cent that has been cleaned isn't worthy of certification regardless of cleaning or not.

not advocating segs, just trying to point out some of the stupidity and inconsitency associated with certain certification standards.

K S

MosesBlack

I purchased a 1908S IHC certified VF-20 by SEGS. No competent grader would give the coin better than F-12.
My first and last purchase of a SEGS "certified" coin

jom

Vam44 said:



<< <i>Newbies will be screwed, if segs consistantly overgrades or overlooks "minor" problems >>



Again, I really don't know if SEGS "overlooks" problems. That wasn't my point. I was saying, in general, if a service is consistant with there general grading you really can't go wrong. Will newbie's get screwed? I dunno it's all a matter of knowing what you are buying. A SEGS 63 my be equal to a PCGS 58 so if you pay the same what's the difference?

I suppose what you are afraid of is a crappy dealer passing off a SEGS coin at the same price as a PCGS. All I can say there is each collector must be EDUCATED before they start buying coins. This suggestion holds whether you are buying SEGS or PCGS or anyone else. You can even buy a ACG coin if you KNOW what you are buying. If you don't I'd suggest not buying at all.

jom

EVillageProwler

Jom,

You should keep in mind that if you buy a problematic or overgraded coin in a PCGS slab, PCGS will pay you for your loss. Not so with SEGS. In this way, a newbie who buys a 63 SEGS slab with 63 money will lose much of the value.

EVP

shylock

If you know what you're looking at, as Jom mentions, some nice coins can be had at great prices in SEGS slabs. If you don't feel that confident with a particular series stay away from them.

I posted a story recently of an SEGS 1866 MS64RD Indian Head that wound up in an NGC MS66RB holder and sold for 3X it's original price. I've also seen an 1880 SEGS MS66RD wind up in an ANACS MS60 net for artificial toning. My last two examples are more the norm with their IH grading -- an 1867 SEGS MS65RD that wound up in a PCGS MS64RD holder, and a 1909-S SEGS MS64RD to ANACS MS63RD. Generally overgraded by a point, and a bit too loose with copper AT.

jom

EVP: I didn't know that about SEGS but still...CONSISTANCY in grading is what is MOST important not who is the "tightest" graders.

Remember here I'm not saying SEGS has these attributes at all. Like I said I don't look at enough SEGS coins to know.

Maybe what should be said is that newbies should stick with PCGS/NGC until they learn to grade then branch out if they wish. A coin is a coin regardless of who grades it. If you want to view 2nd tier grading services as "raw" coins, fine. Then use them as authenticators only (ACG not withstanding...lol). In fact, I only use the top services that way. I depend on them to give me an authentic coin. Then I use their grading as a GUIDE or as a beginning, if you will. After that is the bottom line: How much does it cost. This, of course, assumes I like the coin to begin with. If I don't the rest is irrelevant.

jom

EVillageProwler

Jom,

I agree with you that consistency of grading is extremely important. This is not just the assigning of grades, but also in how it deals with so-called problems, like cleaning, and repairs, etc.

However, I also think it is extremely important for that grading to be reasonably close to accepted market norms because Greysheet and Trends pricing is based on those market norms. A newbie who pays Trends prices because on the assigned grade runs a greater risk because of the variance inherent in the industry and because there's no warranty on the grade by SEGS (or by most of the off-brand services).

EVP

koynekwest

I have been slabbing with SEGS since they entered the slabbing market. I know Larry (and his brother Kelly)quite well and can't believe he would knowingly slab anything counterfeit. As to grading, EVERY slabbing company makes mistakes-I've seen more than one coin in an ANACS slab that was graded Mint state that was AU. I used to slab with ANACS but found their customer service to be lacking. I have a few coins SEGS slabbed that I disagree on grade wise-both low and high, and I think Larry can be a little over-decriptive on some coins as far as problems go. If I can find any serious fault it's that Larry tries to do too much by himself-traveling from his shop in Lima, OH all the way down to Chattanooga at least a couple times a month. In no way can they be compared to the "bottom feeders" and I would rank them equal to or better than ANACS or ICG.

jom

EVP: IMO, it is more that "extremely important". From a grading standpoint it is the ONLY thing. About newbie's buying at Trends. I know what you are saying but that can happen with ANY coin that is graded by ANY service. Also, SEGS is probably close enough to the market standards so as to make it a non-factor. There really isn't any reason for them NOT to be. Again, it all comes down to knowing how to grade YOURSELF.

Koy: In your post you probably could replace ANACS with PCGS and not be far from the truth. lol

jom

JJacks

I didn't read everything here, but i know how some people love the SEGS slabs since you can read them from the top.

Here is my problem with that: One time I was looking through a dealers box, and there was an Indian Head 1C that was maybe MS64 or something from the top of the slab, I don't remember. Anyways, I started to get excited and thought "That would be cool to buy". I looked at the front of the slab, and you guessed it "MS64 Cleaned". If there is a negative qualifier to a coin, that should also be on the top of the slab!

JJacks

lathmach

JJacks.....Is there enough room on the top of the slabs for adjectival
descriptions? If there is, make a suggestion to Larry Briggs that this be placed on on the tops of the slabs. I wouldn't think there is room though.
I don't own any SEGS slabbed coins. If I were to get my collection slabbed though, I'd use SEGS. I wouldn't get them slabbed for the "Grades" though. I can grade my own coins, I don't need anyone to do that for me. I'd probably do it only to protect the coins and have them in uniform holders.
The people at SEGS are competent to properly identify the varieties and they will put the varieties on the slabs. They also will slab problem coins and note the problems. Many of my coins I own do have problems since I collect by variety, and I buy rare varieties in any condition.
Another nice feature of SEGS is that they will put your name on the slabs, such as "Ray Lathrop Collection". (that's me) Someone stealing the coins where a name is on the slab, then, has to break them all out before selling or run the risk of someone recognizing that they have been reported stolen.

Ray