PCGS bodybagged my 32s 25c that came out of their holder!

mnmcoin

Can you believe that, yes I know, it is rhetorical. Came out of a MS63 holder and they bb'd it for artificial color. The color was so neutral, golden tan with a hint of green I don't know why anyone would have at'd a coin to look like that, besides not looking at. But for it to come out of their holder... I look at the coin and it looked like an obvious 64 with a mid shot at 65 and whamo, at. Would NGC be okay for a coin like this? Looks like I will try them more often.

morris <><

kranky

Morris, it sounds like you had Faith and Hope, but the Love is gone!

If you really want it in a PCGS holder, just buy another lottery ticket (I mean, resubmit it) and it might be OK next time.

Whitewashqtr

Morris.. isnt this the coin you dipped to try and get a higher grade? I remember your post stating it was an MS63 and came back AU. Did you break it out again? And.. do you have a scan of the coin?

63's dont usually grade up to 65.. not for this coin anyway. A solid 64? maybe... but not a 65.

Have a scan of the coin?

kieferscoins

Morris won't answer until Monday because he has left for vacation. By then this thread will be way under the heap. Vacation Thread

Cameron Kiefer

Dog97

Once you remove it from the slab all bets are off and anything can happen. You gotta get with the program and Crossover instead. Oh, I just read Whitewashqtr;'s post; so you cracked it to dip it and try to make it look better? Bad boy!!!

coynclecter

I learned the lesson too. I brokeout a Cal commem in an old PCGS MS63 holder and sent it off to them. I came back in a BB, cleaned.

Bikingnut

I've got a nice 1910 Liberty nickel with typical bluish gold toning that I've seen on many PCGS graded nickels of all types that was body bagged by PCGS for artificial toning. Disappointing.

kranky

Maybe you could try something I've been wondering about - submit it again but send it through Legend or some other big outfit. It will likely get submitted with a batch of nice coins and, even though the graders don't know who the submitters are, it might make the difference.

dragon

Kranky,

I don't think that would help, I remember reading a while back that Legend had a bunch of original IH cents from an old time collection come back from PCGS bodybagged for questionable color or something to that effect. I think PCGS will do this to anyone regardless of who you are, or are not.

Dragon

jtryka

Could we take up a collection to buy the folks at PCGS the Lithium they need to avoid these bipolar outbursts? (no offense to those out you who suffer from this disorder). The more I hear about these stories the more I am convinced that the graders at PCGs are just a bunch of inconsistent blithering idiots. Of couse that's not really news. I have some coins there right now, all modern, and many submitted in their mint packaging, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least by a bodybag or two.

IrishMike

What is their responsibility if you send a coin in to be reholdered and they discover it was cleaned. Do you think they would reholder it or pay you market value?

Russ

<< <i>.. isnt this the coin you dipped to try and get a higher grade? >>



If it was dipped, it'd be unlikely it would be bagged for AT.

Russ, NCNE

kranky

<< <i>I don't think that would help, I remember reading a while back that Legend had a bunch of original IH cents from an old time collection come back from PCGS bodybagged for questionable color or something to that effect. I think PCGS will do this to anyone regardless of who you are, or are not. >>



Dragon,
The graders from my class last month mentioned that if the submitter can demonstrate the coins were from such a collection - one that was intact for a long time - the decision to bodybag the coins for AT would be reconsidered. Perhaps they were only speaking for their own service, which wasn't PCGS. I wonder if George and Laura lobbied for a review, because it's certainly a situation where it would be warranted.

I still think a coin with genuine toning (when the submitter is certain of it) that got bodybagged once would have a better chance going in with other nice coins rather than all by its lonesome. It didn't sound as if the coin was wild-looking. But since I don't submit coins that's just my conjecture.

Gilbert

What I don't understand is that if a particular coin is so pristine as to warrant a 2 point upgrade, why crack it out first; why not challenge the grade.

I know there is an opinion that PCGS is going to be influenced by the slab it's in, but if your argument is sound (and that is how you should submit a challenge; in-slab with a written justification why it should be upgraded) then there is no harm in submitting the coin in the slab.

I guess until you lose enough money trying it this way, OR, come to the realization of the chance you are taking ....

dbldie55

When you send in a coin in the holder, the grade on the holder is one of the three grades used in the grading process. The final grade is already influenced by the holder (per policy). PCGS has been BB as AT many true toned coins. It is the conservative approach they are taking.

I know my dealer broke a neat toned half dime out of a green PCGS holder, and said he was dipping it. I asked why based on the price toned coins are getting. He said PCGS would likely BB as artificial. Time is money, and he does not have the time to play games with PCGS. So, the toning went away, the coin came back with a higher grade and he made his money on the coin. (and another real toned coin went away)

mnmcoin

I sold the previosly discussed 32s quarter a little while ago, for 63 money by the way to a dealer I know who does alot of Washington Quarters and he thought PCGS was a tad conservative but understood why the could grade it the dubious AU58. This quarter was toned when I cracked it out and nothing was added to the coin by me...I wish I knew how to, otherwise I would retire and tone coins and sell them raw and make a fortune. Anyway...I will be picking up the coin tomorrow with the old holder and see if they will put it back, once they have a little more info. As far as sending it in the holder, that very rarely works for me anyway. I have sent in about 50 crossovers, with none working and about 100+ reviews for grade or designation and about 5 of them have worked in the holder. Not upset about this, I fully understand there is a fine line between what the coin I thought graded and they graded it, but I just seem to do better when I crack and resubmit.

morris <><

jom

<< <i>PCGS bodybagged my 32s 25c that came out of their holder >>



Yeah, so what else is new?

jom

michael

with grading being an art not a science and even in the best of circumstances the grade or status or opinion of a particiular coin will never be exact time and time again

also a huge factor is that

combined with the fact that pcgs is a private company and their grading of coins is influenced on other motives besides a straight technical/market grade and also it is just their opinion doesnot make it right or wrong

if you are happy with a coin and you feel it is whatever then who really cares what anyone else thinks?


i also think that eventually coins tend to gravitate to higher grade holders over time and then remain in the holders and not the other way around

but in the end when all is said and done buy the coin not the holder



sincerely michael

wallstreetman

Micheal, dont you mean public company?

monsterman

ohh.....dd-55


>>>>>>>When you send in a coin in the holder, the grade on the holder is one of the three grades used in the grading process. The final grade is already influenced by the holder >>>>

not when i was there in the grading room...the coins come in and are put in flips and serial numbered...if they are slabed they are broken out and then serial numbered

the coins are then brought to you on a cart full of boxes........i played 3 rd base....meaning after i put in the serial # i graded it....and hit enter....then the 2 previous graders grades then showed up......so i could see the other graders grades....its really tuff because the coins are all over the place.....frankies vg to 67.......morgans .......dimes ....you name it all series and all grades

the coins then go to verifing..........after verifing....it goes to qc........this is where coins sent in .....in a 63 slab and were graded 62 get relooked at.....if the verifier cant see it at all as a 63 then the 62 stands and you will get some money for the difference.......if we graded it a 62 and he can see it as a 63.....he will have it slabed a 63

so there you go.......the slab it came in as is never used when determining its new grade in the grading process.....but it does have something to do with what the new slab says

obviously they dont want to pay out too much money so most coins newly graded as 62 but came in as 63 will go out as 63

so there you go

gregg

oreville

Clarification is needed here.....on crossover grading in which a minimum grade equalling the submitted slab is requested I do not believe they take it out of the slab unless that requested minimum grade is met.

This is the way I remember it.

vam44

oreville,
I do believe all pcgs holdered coins sent for regrade are reholdered, whether they upgrade or stay the same.That has been my experience, which makes me(or the owner of said coin)unhappy! Nice coins in old holders bring more $$$.
Anyone else get the coin back in the original(old) holder?

tradedollarnut

When I bought my 78CC trade dollar, it was in a first generation holder and we submitted it for grade review. It had to come out of the holder.

BUT.... I do remember one time taking a shot on a first generation holder 74-S and specifically stating "DO NOT CRACK" and it came back in the same holder! This was when my entire set was reviewed, so maybe that had something to do with being able to do that.

vam44

monsterman,
Thanks for your "insider" report! I hope you can share some of your experiences in the grading room with us.