AU-58 and Mint State

nwcs

How do you tell the difference? I have several morgan dollars graded by PCGS that were posted as AU-58. Now, I know at least two of these were pulled from rolls. The rest, don't know. But they sure looked MS-62 and MS-63 to me. Is it the luck of the draw? If I sent them in for a regrade, is it likely to come back again as AU-58 or would a different day (and maybe a package of brownies sent with the invoice) bring a different grade? What's your experience with this grade?

Neil

ARCO

The only Difference is the slightest wear on the very high points of the coin. AU58's can easily fool even experienced graders. Gold is especially difficult to detect. Some coins with weak strikes can be confused with wear making it all the more difficult, add toning and you have your work cut out for you. Finally, to make it even more difficult Low end MS coins can have rub marks from contact with other coins in the mint bags they were shipped out in. Morgans for their size and weight were especially vulnerable.

Every series has high points that wear first. For Morgans it is the hair above the ear and the Eagles breast and neck feathers on the reverse. If you look at the coin in good light, rotating it to see if the mint luster is broken and duller on the high spots, then you have possible wear. It is also wise to read up and understand which dates in the series tended to have weaker strikes, and finally see if you can find some coins or photos of Morgans grading MS, but with a weaker strike, to see what characteristics they have.

AU58 coins are the biggest reason for utilizing slabbing companies in my opinion. They do much to separate the AU's from the Mint state coins. I have looked at thousands of coins and still have a hell-uva-time telling the difference.


Look at the hair above the ear, is it worn at all or sharp and crisp? Is it a date that sometimes comes weakly struck in that area?

heritage coins has hundreds of large coin scans you can peruse and use as a visual reference as well as Ebay auctions.

Good luck,
Tyler

nwcs

Thanks for the thoughts. I need to do more of those things. Especially seeing the difference between mint state and AU-58. I guess I'll have more examples when the invoice comes back. Just hate how much money I wasted on them. Even though many of them look better than some of the MS-60-62 coins I've seen. Now I just hope my JFK's I have in will come back well.

Neil

Dog97

It's really tough to tell the difference between 58 & MS sometimes because a Morgan that has been in a losely rolled roll or been jostled around in a 60 pound bag can look more worn than a 58. Yet a 64 with some darker spots on the high spots ARCO mentioned is a 58.

Usually the 58 will have some hairlines and the forementioned high spots will be a different color from actual circulation than it is from contact with other coins in a bag or roll. The cheeck will show telltale signs too. A circ cheek will have smooth shiny spots, lacking the natural rough patina or skin of an original surface.

You have to consider luster, cheek, color of the high spots and hairlines when making the determination between AU & MS. Also weak strike can look like circulation on a MS coin but this is Market Grading and I'm only touching on the more easily seen & less subjective technical aspects of the 58 grade.

JJacks

Oh boy it is tough sometimes! I posted this same topic about 2 identical looking 55-D Quarters - one an AU58 the other an MS64. I still don't know the difference. I have several large coins (a Peace $ and a Franklin 50C) where it isn't hard for me to tell the difference, but the 55-D 25C I still have to question.

JJacks

nwcs

You can tell on a peace dollar? Impressive! I had 2 peace $s in the lot that were AU-58. When I get them back, what should I look for to see if they did it right? I still wonder if it will be worth resubmitting? The peaces had great fields and nice luster. Strike looked good, too. Still can't see (from memory) why it would be AU-58...

Neil

JJacks

You know nwcs, it IS quite tough, and I am no expert. Look carefully at the color of the coin and the luster compared to a lusterous MS63 or 64. For some reason, my AU55s and 58s look just a slight bit of "blue". They look just off colored compared to the other ones if I hold the AUs just over and to the side of an MS one. My AU58 quarter doesn't do this.

JJacks

1jester

Good thread, nwcs. I've raised the question a few times, vis-a-vis fingerprints. One fingerprint alone won't disqualify an MS coin, but how many does it take to go to AU58? Technically speaking, I thought that MS could have lots of problems as long as it was "uncirculated" (whatever that means!). A coin picked from a mint bag should be at least MS60, but obviously other factors can bring it down in the eyes of the experts.

Another related question: Will a nice 58 coin bring a higher price than an ugly 60? I certainly hope so!

And as for gold, I too have a devil of a time telling how much of that shinyness on the high points will bring the grade down to 58 (from 64/65). I guess any shiny spots indicate wear, but sometimes it's only visible with a 16X loupe. And uncirculated gold can show bag marks too.

I agree that's the best reason for slabbing a borderline AU/UNC coin.

Dog97

The same AU-58 criteria apply for a Peace Dollar as any other coin. Usually 58 brings lower prices, that's why so many collectors prefer a nice 58 to a more expensive 64. They look the same except for some minute differences.
Finger prints have nothing to do with AU.

BillJones

An AU-58 is a coin that can look like MS-63 or 64 coin with a slight rub. It usually has minimal bag marks and other defects and often has better than average eye appeal. MS-60 coin should have no rub although many of them in holders do IMO or are so marked up that you can’t tell if the coin had a rub or not.

You rarely see PCGS or NGC graded coins in MS-60 holders these days. Most of the time you see MS-61 or 62 for the low end Mint State items.

I don’t think I have an MS-60 coin in my collection or my inventory. I just don’t like them. I have quite a few AU-58 coins in my collection. They can be truly outstanding buys when you select them carefully.

Two coins that immediately come to mind are the No Motto Liberty $10 gold piece and the 1895-O Morgan. Both of these coins are very scarce in expensive in true Mint State. If you can find really nice of either of these coins in AU-58 at a fair price, buy them. They are much nicer than MS-60s. I once had an 1895-O Morgan in PCGS AU-58 that I sold for close to $4,000. A dealer across the room had one in PCGS MS-60 @ $9,000. I would have taken the AU-58 over the unattractive MS-60 in a heartbeat if the prices had been the same.

jom

To learn to distinguish a 58 from, say, a 63 is to know the COIN SERIES in question. If it's Morgans look at a many as you can that have been graded 55 or 58 and SEE where the rub is. Same with any other coin series. Morgans and Washington should be relatively easy compared to, say, $5 Indians which can be VERY difficult.

Look at as many coins as you can over and over and over and over....etc.

jom

nwcs

Thankfully (???) I get the shipment back today so I'll have plenty of examples to look at. Sigh. Hopefully my two other orders will come back better!