I can sell raw to coin buyers. If paying a premium for NGC grading doesn't increase the saleability of my product, I might as well use NTC and cut my overhead. At least with PCGS you have a chance to recoup the slabbing fees. You could always use airtites and put a little "pmh1nic grading service" sticker on it, though, if you really think it doesn't matter.
I can't justify paying a significant premium for a coin based XYZ companies opinion of the grade. I expect 100% accuracy from PCGS, NGC, etc. when it comes to authentication. In the vast majority of cases authentication isn't a matter of opinion. The salability issue you mentioned has to do with paying a premium for a grading services "opinion" of a grade. I for one don't have enough confidence in any of the service to justify paying what amounts to a large percentage of a coins value based on their opinion. And every time I read a thread about changing grading standards, grading inconsistency and resubmissions that result in different grades assigned to the same coin by the same service my confidence level drops another notch.
What kind of coins are we talking about when the primary issue is recouping slabbing fees ($10 ~ $30)? Please don't take this as an insult but should that State Quarter that's worth $50 in a NGC slabbed marked MS-66 be worth $100, $200 or $500 in a PCGS slab marked MS-66? I don't value either of there grading opinions that much.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Well actually, I've got a Proof 64 Shield nickel in mind, in an NGC slab, that's for sale on ebay right now (for the fourth time.) Coin World Trends of $500. I currently have it priced at 63 money, which is $300, and no bids. I could sell it raw or in an ACG slab for $250. The NGC slab did NOTHING for me, just a drain of money. In a PCGS slab, it would of sold already.
You could be 100% correct about grading consistency and overpaying for plastic, just doesn't improve my bank balance any. PCGS could be the devil incarnate, for all I care, their slabs sell. That's all I care about right now: unloading the #$% things at a somewhat fair price.
If you're talking about that 1870 5¢ then you have it priced about 18% HIGHER than PR64 generic bid and about 50% higher than PR63 generic bid. It's got a spotted reverse. This is the type of coin that would sell sight-unseen on TeleTrash.
gotta agree here. that is one of the most common coins, and nobody wants em regardless of the plastic. also, not to be critical, but the image is not so great. what's your best price?
dude, 17 has gotta be by far the most common FH of all the slq's. i've seen au's that still have a full head! buty your right, makes a great type for the quarter sets.
<< <i>If you're talking about that 1870 5¢ then you have it priced about 18% HIGHER than PR64 generic bid and about 50% higher than PR63 generic bid. It's got a spotted reverse. This is the type of coin that would sell sight-unseen on TeleTrash. >>
I'm selling it on eBay (and paying the exorbitant fees) greg, because I don't want to get ripped off by a dealer at a coin show paying greysheet bid. Same reason I get coins slabbed, so a dealer doesn't tell me it's really a "60 at best..." not that a slab stops self proclaimed "experts" from trying to pull the same maneuver... but if you search the messages here, that is one of the main arguments for third party grading... as is sight-unseen trading BTW. The question is: what am I getting for my hard earned money? If it's nothing, I'd have to be a complete idiot to give NGC (or eBay) my money. Plain as that. If PCGS can add some value or liquidity, they get my money. I refuse to pay for nothing.
Oh, and spare me the "learn to grade yourself speech." The way grading is done now-a-days, you'd have to know every variety's strike characteristics individually and, I'd imagine, could then probably authenticate them yourself too. Take away sight unseen trading, and there would be absolutely NO REASON to have a coin slabbed at all. Just buy some airtites instead. We're all going to argue over the grade on the label anyway, doesn't matter who grades it, might as well be BCGS
Is the coin in your opinion a legit 64? I can't speak to you as a dealer but as a collector if I was looking for a proof shielded Nickel and looking to spend that kind of money sight unseen (which is basically what is happening when you're bidding on-line), if the photo looked right it wouldn't matter to me if the coin was in a PCGS, NGC or ANACS slab (we'll leave ACG out of this ). I've had enough experience with each of them that I'd take a shot knowing that there is a good likelihood that the grade (after making my own evaluation of the photograph) would be in the ballpark. If there were three coins available, one in each service's slab, I'd still be look at the coin NOT the initials on the slab in making my judgment about which coin to bid the most on. In either case (PCGS, NGC or ANACS) I'd want the option of returning the coin.
I don't know why this particular coin isn't meeting your sales expectations. If the coin is a legit 64 and the photograph accurately reflects that then the lack of interest may just be in the timing. If you really are attributing the lack of interest to the initials on the slab (instead of what's in the slab) then in essence you're saying them most collects are buying plastic rather than the coin and in the future will continue to do so.
"Oh, and spare me the "learn to grade yourself speech." The way grading is done now-a-days, you'd have to know every variety's strike characteristics individually"
If I was spending $500 on a coin you'd better believe I'd be well versed in the striking characteristics, etc. and whatever else had a major bearing on the value of the coin.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
I only have a scanner, and it is a toned proof, so getting mirrored fields to show is nearly impossible. IMO the obverse is 65, the reverse is 63 and if it were white would be designated cameo (the reverse frost breaks are typical for this series.) My opinion, however, isn't worth diddly squat, which is why it's in an NGC slab The mintage is 1,000 coins though, so I can wait. just a real pi$$er, shouldn't be this hard to unload. Goes to NCS then PCGS now. If it comes back 65CAM next time, I'll make sure to tell everyone how I made a killing selling it to a rip off artist at my local coin show
I don't want to get ripped off by a dealer at a coin show paying greysheet bid.
Greysheet is used for a nice looking coin. I don't mean to knock your coin, but with those spots on the reverse aren't going to get you Greysheet money. They're going to get you Bluesheet money and maybe a little back of Bluesheet.
I'd personally consider it a problem coin. Spots like that ruin the eye appeal.
Your line that "Candidate for conservation" is not a selling point.
If you want to sell that coin then you need to realistically lower the price. They are common coins. You'll need to price it around Bluesheet ~$250.
no offense greg, but no coin with a mintage of 1000 pieces is "common"... and I've seen worse sell for more on eBay, they were just all in PCGS slabs. granted, it's not a popular series.
EVP, I've done the research. This is the only 1870 proof shield nickel on eBay, Heritage doesn't have any for sale either. Most are probably in the hands of long-time collectors that collect by die variety. If you search past auctions also, all you'll find is this ugly one in an old PCGS holder that sold way above estimate: 1870 There are common date proofs in this series you can buy cheap for your type set though, this just ain't one of them.
Pardon me, Crito, but I should not have spoken with such authority. I am not an expert on Shields, and I don't know the pops of these coins. My comment, btw, was meant as a generality. But, we all know that mintage reports are oftentimes a lousy judge of actual scarcity.
crito, that was a live auction (meaning sight-seen bidders), not an ebay auction. I saw some interesting prices on coins in last nights ANA sale. There would be multiple coins of the same date/grade/slab but the prices were all over the place. The buyer of this coin may think it is an upgrade candidate and paid more to find out.
I consider 1,000 to be a fairly high proof mintage for that era. If you think this coin will sell better in a PCGS holder, then the buyers are buyers of plastic. (obviously if they will not buy the "exact" same coin in the NGC holder)
I have never thought the Shield series was that popular, this probably has something to do with it not selling too. You need to have it listed when a collector of these is looking (when that is I do not know). There are probably better venue's than Ebay to sell a coin like this too.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Just a few observations. A coin like that with a mintage of 1000 is considered a "common" coin based on that series. "Common" is all relative. PCGS/NGC/ANACS have certified over 500 of these coins. That's a lot of coins for a series that isn't popular at all. Sure there are many resubmissions in that figure, but it still is a high figure.
The coin you point to has a few things going for it. As was pointed out it went to sight-seen buyers. It is also in an old PCGS slab. The coin very well might have sold strong based on upgrade potential.
TeleTrash shows 8 1870 proofs sold in the last 5 years.
Comments
I can't justify paying a significant premium for a coin based XYZ companies opinion of the grade. I expect 100% accuracy from PCGS, NGC, etc. when it comes to authentication. In the vast majority of cases authentication isn't a matter of opinion. The salability issue you mentioned has to do with paying a premium for a grading services "opinion" of a grade. I for one don't have enough confidence in any of the service to justify paying what amounts to a large percentage of a coins value based on their opinion. And every time I read a thread about changing grading standards, grading inconsistency and resubmissions that result in different grades assigned to the same coin by the same service my confidence level drops another notch.
What kind of coins are we talking about when the primary issue is recouping slabbing fees ($10 ~ $30)? Please don't take this as an insult but should that State Quarter that's worth $50 in a NGC slabbed marked MS-66 be worth $100, $200 or $500 in a PCGS slab marked MS-66? I don't value either of there grading opinions that much.
Well actually, I've got a Proof 64 Shield nickel in mind, in an NGC slab, that's for sale on ebay right now (for the fourth time.) Coin World Trends of $500. I currently have it priced at 63 money, which is $300, and no bids. I could sell it raw or in an ACG slab for $250. The NGC slab did NOTHING for me, just a drain of money. In a PCGS slab, it would of sold already.
You could be 100% correct about grading consistency and overpaying for plastic, just doesn't improve my bank balance any. PCGS could be the devil incarnate, for all I care, their slabs sell. That's all I care about right now: unloading the #$% things at a somewhat fair price.
Which Shield nickel is it? Is it the 1883 proof with no image?
K S
<< <i>If you're talking about that 1870 5¢ then you have it priced about 18% HIGHER than PR64 generic bid and about 50% higher than PR63 generic bid. It's got a spotted reverse. This is the type of coin that would sell sight-unseen on TeleTrash. >>
What's it doing in an NGC PR65 holder?
peacockcoins
Oh, and spare me the "learn to grade yourself speech." The way grading is done now-a-days, you'd have to know every variety's strike characteristics individually and, I'd imagine, could then probably authenticate them yourself too. Take away sight unseen trading, and there would be absolutely NO REASON to have a coin slabbed at all. Just buy some airtites instead. We're all going to argue over the grade on the label anyway, doesn't matter who grades it, might as well be BCGS
Is the coin in your opinion a legit 64? I can't speak to you as a dealer but as a collector if I was looking for a proof shielded Nickel and looking to spend that kind of money sight unseen (which is basically what is happening when you're bidding on-line), if the photo looked right it wouldn't matter to me if the coin was in a PCGS, NGC or ANACS slab (we'll leave ACG out of this
I don't know why this particular coin isn't meeting your sales expectations. If the coin is a legit 64 and the photograph accurately reflects that then the lack of interest may just be in the timing. If you really are attributing the lack of interest to the initials on the slab (instead of what's in the slab) then in essence you're saying them most collects are buying plastic rather than the coin and in the future will continue to do so.
"Oh, and spare me the "learn to grade yourself speech." The way grading is done now-a-days, you'd have to know every variety's strike characteristics individually"
If I was spending $500 on a coin you'd better believe I'd be well versed in the striking characteristics, etc. and whatever else had a major bearing on the value of the coin.
It's not. It is in a PR64 slab and very well might be a solid or even PQ 64.
I only have a scanner, and it is a toned proof, so getting mirrored fields to show is nearly impossible. IMO the obverse is 65, the reverse is 63 and if it were white would be designated cameo (the reverse frost breaks are typical for this series.) My opinion, however, isn't worth diddly squat, which is why it's in an NGC slab
Greysheet is used for a nice looking coin. I don't mean to knock your coin, but with those spots on the reverse aren't going to get you Greysheet money. They're going to get you Bluesheet money and maybe a little back of Bluesheet.
I'd personally consider it a problem coin. Spots like that ruin the eye appeal.
Your line that "Candidate for conservation" is not a selling point.
If you want to sell that coin then you need to realistically lower the price. They are common coins. You'll need to price it around Bluesheet ~$250.
For coins of that era, a proof mintage of 1000 is considered common. I am speaking of its relative rarity to demand, of course...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
There are common date proofs in this series you can buy cheap for your type set though, this just ain't one of them.
Tbig
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I consider 1,000 to be a fairly high proof mintage for that era. If you think this coin will sell better in a PCGS holder, then the buyers are buyers of plastic. (obviously if they will not buy the "exact" same coin in the NGC holder)
I have never thought the Shield series was that popular, this probably has something to do with it not selling too. You need to have it listed when a collector of these is looking (when that is I do not know). There are probably better venue's than Ebay to sell a coin like this too.
The coin you point to has a few things going for it. As was pointed out it went to sight-seen buyers. It is also in an old PCGS slab. The coin very well might have sold strong based on upgrade potential.
TeleTrash shows 8 1870 proofs sold in the last 5 years.