Ebay seller who will never get a bid from me again
g097103
Posts: 279
<RANT>
He (e.mix) had a 1965 Canadian silver proof set on ebay and I bid $3.26 for it and was hich bidder with about 20 minutes
left. At about 30 seconds he cancelled the auction due to low bid. Swine loser, #*$&^%&^$%. If you put something
up for auction I believe you should follow through, even if you lose some money. That's the risks of the game and
the price of admission, BTDT.
</RANT>
Scott M
He (e.mix) had a 1965 Canadian silver proof set on ebay and I bid $3.26 for it and was hich bidder with about 20 minutes
left. At about 30 seconds he cancelled the auction due to low bid. Swine loser, #*$&^%&^$%. If you put something
up for auction I believe you should follow through, even if you lose some money. That's the risks of the game and
the price of admission, BTDT.
</RANT>
Scott M
Scott M
Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker
Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker
0
Comments
Pete
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I'll contact the seller and suggest that he should complete the sale to comply with Ebay rules.
Thanks,
Scott M
Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker
Ya, I know, eBay lets them. But they're still LOSERS.
Dave
Strangely, he had a boatload of other auctions going at the same time that pulled from the same server, and weren't cancelled. Stranger still, they all had strong bids.
Russ, NCNE
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In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
-Laura Swenson
In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
If I do the math correctly the auction was scheduled to close Jul-30-02 19:25:16 PDT.
So we closed the auction almost 36 HOURS before it ended. BTW, when you close an auction and eat the fee’s, eBay allows you to cancel all bids placed.
For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
-Laura Swenson
In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
<< <i>I think that TBT did nothing wrong, in that they ended the auction in a sufficient amount of time. >>
I don't think you'd be singing the same tune had you been the high bidder on a no reserve auction, only to have it pulled out from under you because the seller wasn't happy with the price.
I don't mind people ending an auction to sell privately under certain circumstances, such as reserve no yet met or no bids yet. But cancelling a no reserve auction because you're not happy with the price is not kosher. If there's a price you want for your coin, use a reserve. It's an apparent attempt attempt to save a few dollars by avoiding the reserve listing fee and isn't fair to the well intentioned bidders. I'm sure they all really appreciate having their time wasted and their hopes dashed.
Of course, I'm sure they have a good reason for doing this on about ten recent auctions, other than not being happy with the price. Right?
<< <i>IMO, if the person who owns the item decides not to sell it for whatever reason, its their property. >>
TBT,
I actually agree with this 100%. What I don't like, though, is when a seller lies to me as to the reason why. See my previous about the seller - e.mix - who is the topic of this thread.
Russ, NCNE
I have said before that ebay should hide the auction ending time OR estimate it. EBAY is a seller's medium and you should be able to maximize your profits, it's not a flea market where buyers always get a deal.
suck it up guys and gals and bid what you think is fair.
tom
--------T O M---------
-------------------------
I think its downright Shi$$y of a seller to end a no reserve listing for WHATEVER reason. If you didn't want to sell it or weren't ready to risk it, then DON'T WASTE everyone's time listing it.
IMO once there are bids and no reserve, the only fair and ethical thing to do is to let the auction run to completion. Joe.
So we all set up dummy accounts, and bid numbers that would scare off any real buyers on some of their listings, and with 5 seconds left, we cancel our bid because we misread the listing. Hey, rules are rules. Tom, I agree ebay isn't a flea market where everyone always gets a deal, but it is a flea market, and it ain't a retail store front. BTW - just because you don't break the rules doesn't mean it's good business. I buy LOTS of the kinds of coins E.mix sells, but I won't ever buy from them if that's their policy. If there's a reserve, post it. If there is a possibility you will end an auction early, just say so in the listing.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
What it boils down to is;
1. Ebay for some stupid reason allows it. As all who practice this type of behavior will tell you "It's not against the rules" as if not being against the rules justifies unethical behavior
2. sellers avoiding the fees involved in setting a reserve.
3. Seller avoiding fees involved in starting an auction with a higher opening bid.
4. Seller gambling trying to entice more bids because some buyers will not bid in reserve auctions.
They abuse the ending an auction early option to cover their A$$es when their little game does not work out in their favor. They call ending an auction early a "Sellers Tool".
FYI people, ending an auction early is not a sellers tool.................... It is there to enable a seller to end an auction due to errors in the listing at which time it would normally be relisted correctly or the item is no longer available for sale. "I don't want to sell it anymore because my cheap a$$ made a mistake and I think its worth more" is not a justifiable reason to end it early.
The problem is that Ebay is a sellers arena and all ebay cares about is the sellers. Ebay tracks for all to see buyers who canx bids because bid cancallation is not a buyers tool. It is available to buyers for just about the same reason the ending an auction early option is available to sellers, AN HONEST MISTAKE. If they did not do that buyers would abuse the bid retraction option just as bad as the sellers are abusing the ending an auction early option. Then all we would be hearing here is the sellers crying all over the place "Thats not fair
Ebay might not track the sellers unethical behavior but us buyers do. Most of us buyers have our list of never buy from sellers. I appreciate all the members here bringing this type of behavior to everyones attention. My list grows bigger all the time.
I buy and sell. As a seller I use the seller tools available to ensure my coins only sell at a price I am confortable with. That means setting higher opening bids at my minimum sell price or setting a reserve at my minimum sell price. If I open an auction with no reserve and a low opening bid I do so willing to accept whatever the final bid is and the coin sells.
I really do not want to debate this with all you sellers out there trying to defend your unethical behavior. You make your own decisions on how you want to conduct your business. You only have to be able to live with yourselves and as such are the only ones you have to convince what you are doing is ok and the buyers will decide if they want to purchase your goods.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
AS a seller and buyer I agree with your statements.
With all the options there is no reason to close early except listing error.
Dan
<>< ~~~
I still didn't catch who we were talking about in this thread?
If I had bid on any of those auctions, rest assured that would be the last time I ever bid on that seller's items.
TBT, I know you have a list of blacklisted bidders. If you really think of ending an auction early as a "seller's tool", then please feel free to add me to that list, just in case I ever forget about this thread.
-Dan
My Ebay name is the same as it is here. PLEASE Blacklist me if this type of seller behavior is in your bag of tricks.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Why not just list the coins with an opening bid that makes sense, and if ebay is unprofitable, don't use it. Rather than justify stroking the bidders, and wasting their and your time with laments about the high cost of selling to the public on ebay, why not just advertise the coins at an opening bid that makes sense. If the volume is too low doing it the right way, why do it at all?
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>IMO, if the person who owns the item decides not to sell it for whatever reason, its their property. That may really bite if you wanted the product but its reality >>
I'm sorry TBT but it's my feeling that if you put it up you should sell it.
If you cancelled an auction on me without e-mailing a reason, I would never bid on one of your auctions again.
While I don't keep a written list of who I will not bid on, I won't bid on reserve Auctions until the reserve has been met and I won't bid on those who have very high S/H. I also will never bid on one guy who said he only charges actual S/H and charged me $4.39 more than he paid.
I agree with your point as to excessive ranting on this board. However, for the benefit of newbies, there are a lot lessons to be illustrated by some of the posts pointing out overgraded, misrepresented coins, unethitical or downright deceptive auction practices on ebay and the like. I think it is healthy to hear different view points on contraversial topics like AT and diipping etc. It would be best if personal attacks and rants were not part of the presentation.
Your last comment though is very intriguing. I have no doubt that there are many hair raising tales to be told of the dealings between and among dealers. I for one would love to hear some. Why not start a thread by posting a few for the education and entertainment of us collector types who live in a less shark infested environment.
Charles
You're right about the tone of the boards. I'm an ebay seller, personally and professionally. I own and operate an automobile dealership (for the last 21 years), and while it probably isn't like the coin business, I'd say there are a lot of similarities. There are multiple book values, floor planning expenses, payroll, insurances, inventory management, auctions, retail operations, and advertising. I keep 2.5 million in inventory and sell about 20 million worth of inventory per year. I have expenses too, and sometimes certain advertising venues don't work for me, but I'll not be listing a $50,000 Benz on ebay without a reserve or a suitable opening bid. I won't waste my or your time. BTW - our business is fairly competetive too.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
The sellers complaints about some buyers behavior are all valid. However they are not the issue being discussed here.
Its like saying, "well those buyers do unethical things, so its OK for me to do unethical things also".
Stick to the issue at hand and stop trying to justify bad behavior based on the equally bad behavior of others!
I'm both a seller and buyer, I don't cancel auctions unless there is an obvious mistake and I discover it within a few minutes of posting.
Stop trying to make excuses about being a big volume dealer, blah, blah, blah, and assume responsibility for your business!
An auction is a crapshoot, and sometimes you lose. I would expect any buyer to boycott me if I cancelled an auction strictly for my benefit after it had been posted for a reasonable time (say more than one day). I will never buy from a seller who doesn't take full responsibility for their actions - I'm tired of hearing adults making these phony excuses.
1. Canceling an auction due to low bids is clearly unethical and should not be allowed.
2. Buyers retracting bids due to finding equivalent items for less money is also unethical, but happens everyday.
I have been a buyer and a seller on Ebay and as such I have experienced both side of the coin. If I place a bid, I stick to my bid and send payment as soon as the auction ends. If I sell I either set a reserve for high dollar items, or a start my auction out at a buck and let the market decide the value. I take pride in my salesmanship, and I try to make auction appealing by including good descriptions, pictures, and fair shipping charges. I am very careful in considering when my auction will end to maximize my chances of receiving last minute bids. In the end it is all a guessing game in trying to determine what the public wants to buy, but not setting your auctions up to recover at least what you have invested in an item is setting yourself up for failure.
Good Luck to both buyers and seller!!!!
<< <i>Is it ethical for me to e-mail the buyer of these two coins and say he should pay my cost? >>
TBT:
Sure---you can email anything you want, but a buyer is certainly not obligated to pay any more than he bid. It is also clearly ethical to set a reserve price or an opening bid that guarantees you cover your costs. As has been said by others, it sure looks to me that all you are doing is running a reserve price auction without letting anyone know, and, thereby avoiding the eBay reserve price fees, which IS a violation of eBay policy. I certainly don't sell a lot on eBay, but I've sold enough to have been burned on some things that maybe I should have set a reserve, and on others I've been pleasantly surprised. It would never occur to me to cancel a no reserve auction just because the bidding did not meet my hopes.
Pete
I am not ignoring the other side. You are right my selling is not my bread and butter (thank god).
<< <i>Have you ever seen a thread from known high volume sellers (over $50k eBay month) who post negative buyer situations? They happens daily to us but its part of doing business. >>
Key phrase, "It's a part of doing business".
<< <i>one thing that this thread has failed to address is the cost of doing business from all aspects >>
If you cannot run an honest straight up business without pissing off and screwing your honest customers or in this case potential customers and turn a profit maybe you need to reevaluate your business and go to work for someone else.
Non-paying bidders.
You get all your selling fees returned from Ebay for that auction and Ebay stands behind sellers in getting rid of that type of buyer.
0 feedback buyers allowed to bid on 20 auctions at once.
You do not have to accept bids from buyers with low feedback.
Bid retractions.
It does not happen that often and when an honest mistake is made resulting in a retraction it does not affect the final selling price anyway. If a bad buyer is abusing it then again Ebay stands behind sellers in getting rid of that type of buyer.
Slow Pay Buyers expecting you to hold inventory for 20+ days and wrong amount payment sent.
A pain in the A$$ but you do get your money. Unfortunately it’s a part of doing business on Ebay.
Credit cards fee’s that sellers eat to make it easier to sell the item and for buyers to pay.
Sellers eat? The fees are a part of any business and should be factored into the price of the product. Quit crying or stop accepting credit cards. Don't try to make it sound like you are doing your buyers this great favor. If you did not accept them your sales would drop significantly. You are definitely benefitting by accepting them.
Return costs.
What costs? The buyer never gets the shipping charge returned and has to pay to ship it back to you. After a return you can also ask for your seller fees back from Ebay on that auction.
<< <i>***Losing monies on No reserve auctions. We loose money on coin 2.4x out of 10x NR auctions. Last weekend two nicely toned Morgan’s went to a board member foe under $300. We had $750 in those two coins alone. >>
Then use a reserve or higher opening bid to protect your investment. It is not our fault if you pay more for a coin than you can sell it for. HeII collectors do that all the time.
<< <i>Dealers are in the business to make money and buyers are trying to get the best price. Each side do things that equally make the other side upset…..That’s business and its ok! >>
You are right dealers are in the business to make money as is anyone in any business and buyers are always trying to get the best prices regardless of what they are buying. But its not ok for dealers or any business owner to practice deceptive selling techniques and screw potential honest customers in an attempt to maximize their profits or make up for operating losses.
<< <i>Is it ethical for me to e-mail the buyer of these two coins and say he should pay my cost? >>
Not if you did not protect your investment when placing the item up for auction. If you had set a minimum bid or reserve at your cost it would not be an issue. So who's fault is it you lost money?
<< <i>If a buyer does not like eBays rules or the way a seller runs their operation then they also have the option of not using it or buying from them. >>
And that is the whole point of this thread. A lot of honest buyers do not think this type of behavior is ethical and as such will refuse to buy from sellers who practice that type of behavior.
None of this is meant to be personal
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
echoing WWBs comments, sellers that support credit card payments or paybill will also get higher auction closes - people are willing to pay a little extra for the convenience. i've watched SAEs pass me by on ebay for lower costs and bid more on ones that accept cards. buyers are paying a proportional amount of that cost.
the rules of Ebay are written to support the sellers - they're the source of their income. They have nothing to do with fairness.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
As an economics major it gives me a headache when someone equates the value of something based on what they paid. the market determines the value, not the amount of the last transaction. if you would have paid $20 for those morgans would you have sold them for $20? a $300 market morgan is worth $300 whether you paid $1 or $1,000,000.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
<< <i> My only comment is "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" >>
Exactly! What's your ebay handle?
Scott M
Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker
This thread has been both informative and enlightening.
Now that I am aware of how much my using a credit card or PayPal is hurting sellers, I suggest we all pay a buyers fee of 15% to keep these poor folks in business. Also, lets make sure that the eBay auction rules GUARANTEE every seller a profit on every transaction (isn't it their right?).
Additionally, I think it is time to have a "National Sellers Day", maybe the Sunday after Monther's Day, when we send them cards, flowers, and gifts in appreciation for all they have done to making the buying experience convenient and fun. (Here is a chance for all of you who believe in "business welfare" to vote with your pocket books).
As for bad buyers, just "catch E'm and string E'm up" (figuratively speaking, and within the law).
P.S. I'm primarily a buyer, but also a seller, so please send me a gift.
P.S.S. Does eBay sell any material on ethics - no darn demand I suppose? Thank you
<< <i>sellers that support credit card payments or paybill will also get higher auction closes - people are willing to pay a little extra for the convenience. >>
As one who accepts credit cards in my regular business, I have to echo that sentiment. Accepting them increases revenue more then enough to compensate for the fees involved.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>suck it up guys and gals and bid what you think is fair. >>
That's right, But.....if the bid is $2.00, the bid increment is 25 cents, and I list my max bid as $10.00 I'll still get the auction for $2.00 because no one else thought the value of the auction was more than $2.00. An item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Thank you, I'll shut up now.
<< <i>I will not knowlingly buy from a seller who makes a practice out of ending auctions early. Play by the rules or don't play. Most of us don't expect to get great bargains on ebay but we do expect to get decent treatment, much like I do when I go to to the flea markets.
Amen!! And thank-you also W.W. Billman for echoing my sentiments exactly. I very much appreciate all those members who let us know which Sellers are practicing cancellation due to low bids when a reserve feature is available.
God Bless Texas.......I was born there.....where a man's word used to be as good as a contract and a contract was only opened as a last resort. I guess I've geen away too long because times it seems they are a'changin.
You guys ever wonder why larger dealers don’t post much on these boards anymore? I am talking dealers of coins, not part time sellers.
Not worth the lynch mob attitude. This thread was not even started about my company; I was forced to post to defend a comment perceived about our auctions to set the record straight. Added some food for thought (bad idea), which just worked up the mob.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!