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Red Book “Colonials”: Time for a Change?
oldabeintx
Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭✭✭
Isn’t it time to eliminate some of the coins and tokens that have been traditionally collected as ”colonials”? Some may be open to debate, but others are just plain misleading to include. No harm done I suppose, but I for one am a hopeless completist and feel a nagging sense of guilt when I omit items from lists that I feel are absurd - creations of 19th century collectors in this case And there is the cost. How about we at least start by removing the most egregious example, the Mott token? And, there are no doubt some worthy candidates to add to the group. Time for a 21st century overhaul of this historical and important group.
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Why have listings for these 19th century creations stuck around for such a long time? I suspect $$$ for the right people may be the answer.
Disagree.
Not everything is a conspiracy.
Unless given a strong enough reason to alter the Red Book it doesn't get done.
The reason is strong and has been around for a long time.
Agreed though it could cause a backlash, especially those that collect the 1776 Continental dollar because they go for big money.
It’s probably best to leave things be and let people collect what they want. As far as coins go, I stick mainly with Massachusetts silver, state copper, coins that were used as undertypes on state copper, as well as Spanish colonial.
I wouldn't exactly call the Red Book an authoritative reference on early American coinage but your point is valid, OP.
Not that strong. This is the first thread with anyone complaining about this issue. And with all the various complaining topics discussed on a daily, it would have been approached by now if anyone really cared.
Interesting new book on the 1776 Continental Dollar coming out this week. I’ve never paid attention to it, but am getting interested in its history now.
Actually, I think it's the second time this came up. Nonetheless, for everyone who wants "permission" to not include a coin in their set, there is someone who has the coin and doesn't want it excluded.
I think another coin that we SHOULD (but won't) be able to agree on is the 1913 Liberty nickel. Whatever it is, it isn't actually part of the series. But there it is in my old Whitman blue book with the cardboard disk forever filling the hole. Lol.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The Mott Token is a good example. It’s “not” what it appears to be, but being dated blah blah blah. A good to publish what is “supposed” to be its maker and time of creation. Of course all the suppositions about it are all fairly sketchy……
The Redbook won’t change, because many collectors want Redbook listed items and markets have grown around that assumption.
The Mott token is probably the least likely “colonial”, the “1776 Continental Dollar” was a later German fantasy piece, and there are other fishy suspects also.
So, collect what you like! If your goal is collecting coins that actually circulated in the 13 colonies, just do it!
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Conversely, I found a 1799 George III halfpenny today while metal detecting so that's pretty good evidence that these circulated here. Is it in the Red Book colonial section? Nope.
Cool stuff, approx where did you find it? Anything else found with it? I’ve long thought of getting a metal detector…
Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris
It appears that during colonial and early independence days anything round and copper was pressed into service as small change.
The "Red Book" would then have to list all copper foreign coins from the period.
For example:
Portugal 10 Reis 1764
Copper, 33 mm, 11.09 gm
Portugal 1000 Reis was worth about a dollar then, making this coin worth a US cent or British half penny.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
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The 2027 Red Book does a pretty good job of addressing foreign coins that circulated here, including beyond colonial times. It also debunks a number of traditional “colonials”. I guess my issue, if I really have one, is the perpetuation of some of these fantasies in registry sets. By all means we should collect what we like, but there are those who are mere followers, basing their buying decisions on what others tell them they need to complete their sets.
I would say that's true of almost any registry type set. You'll always need coins you don't necessarily want for completeness sake.
Forgive the thread hijack but to answer Guzzi's question:
I found it in the town of Oyster Bay, NY, along with a dandy button and gilt flat button. In past trips to this spot, I've pulled an 1829 Half Dime in Choice XF details, several large cents, the oldest being Draped Bust, and assorted other buttons and artifacts.
Here's the half dime before I smacked the bend out of it. Looks better now that its flat.
