Net grade or details grade on this High Relief Saint?

dval2929

I am trying to get some opinions on my NGC 62 high relief Saint.

My core question: Would PCGS or CACG straight grade this coin today (even at a lower grade) or would this go right into a bb?

I’ve been gathering opinions lately, and would love yours as well. I’ll include many photos as well as close ups of the offending area.

Thank you!

![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/i3/

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jmlanzaf

Details not body bag.

I don't think it will turn out differently than the first time.

dval2929

@jmlanzaf said:
Details not body bag.

I don't think it will turn out differently than the first time.

Thank you, but the first time it was straight graded as an NGC 62, so I don’t quite understand

jmlanzaf

@dval2929 said:

@jmlanzaf said:
Details not body bag.

I don't think it will turn out differently than the first time.

Thank you, but the first time it was straight graded as an NGC 62, so I don’t quite understand

Two different points:
1. It wouldn't body bag. They don't do that for graffiti.
2. I don't see why wouldn't it straight grade again.

Typekat

EDITED:
Wait,
Is the coin not now in an NGC 62 holder?

MsMorrisine

i'm in the details camp

dval2929

@jmlanzaf said:

@dval2929 said:

@jmlanzaf said:
Details not body bag.

I don't think it will turn out differently than the first time.

Thank you, but the first time it was straight graded as an NGC 62, so I don’t quite understand

Two different points:
1. It wouldn't body bag. They don't do that for graffiti.
2. I don't see why wouldn't it straight grade again.

Got it, thanks

dval2929

@Typekat said:

EDITED:
Wait,
Is the coin not now in an NGC 62 holder?

Yep, it is. And I am wondering if CACG/PCGS would cross it at any grade or details-only

skier07

There’s no harm in trying (aside from the expenses) as long as you submit as a cross at a minimum straight grade only. It might cross with PCGS but I wouldn’t hold my breath with CACG.

Typekat

Yes, submit to PCGS under Crossover at MS62 minimum. That way you get the coin back still in the NGC holder if it fails.

messydesk

I don't think those two marks alone would cause it to body bag. That's what MS 61-62 are for. The issues it may have include a light wiping that gives it an uncomfortable sheen that I don't see on other 61-62 CAC HR Saints. May just be the picture. The other thing I can't tell is if there's any tooling in the fields elsewhere that might get it a details grade.

dval2929

@messydesk said:
I don't think those two marks alone would cause it to body bag. That's what MS 61-62 are for. The issues it may have include a light wiping that gives it an uncomfortable sheen that I don't see on other 61-62 CAC HR Saints. May just be the picture. The other thing I can't tell is if there's any tooling in the fields elsewhere that might get it a details grade.

Thank you. I’m pretty new to collecting and it’s wild how this coin looks different under different light. Here is the reverse under more subdued light:

The only sheen that looks off to me is the “cloud” that is sort of in her immediate background behind her shoulders and neck. It’s visible in pic #3.

But as is obvious I don’t have a great feel for all this yet. Happy to take close ups of the possible wipe spot if that helps! Thank you!

lermish

Don't mean this to be overly harsh but just as realistic as I can. I think the coin would likely grade at PCGS and possibly but less likely at CACG. The staple scratches bother me less than the overall color/texture of the surfaces. Additionally, there appears to be fairly noticeable wear/cabinet friction on the obverse.

Netted down to AU55 (from AU58) due to the scratches and not great surfaces IMO.

By all means try to cross it over if you want, worst it can cost you is a couple hundred dollars in grading fees, but I would not advise cracking it out.

My old 58 if that helps to have something to look at different features of condition:

MsMorrisine

MsMorrisine

those are some long scratches

dval2929

@lermish said:
Don't mean this to be overly harsh but just as realistic as I can. I think the coin would likely grade at PCGS and possibly but less likely at CACG. The staple scratches bother me less than the overall color/texture of the surfaces. Additionally, there appears to be fairly noticeable wear/cabinet friction on the obverse.

Netted down to AU55 (from AU58) due to the scratches and not great surfaces IMO.

By all means try to cross it over if you want, worst it can cost you is a couple hundred dollars in grading fees, but I would not advise cracking it out.

My old 58 if that helps to have something to look at different features of condition:

No apology needed! I asked for feedback. That's a mighty nice 58 you have there.

I hear you with color and wear, but one thing I've realized in my short time owning this thing is that it's hard to pin down true color in photos, and likewise with the wear. Sometimes it look like a big, black dead spot but then if I change shirts or rotate the coin, it looks totally different. So I'm not saying you are wrong at all, but I also don't trust these iPhone shots where various colors are reflecting!

Cougar1978

I would leave it in the NGC 62 holder.

Possible sell it in auction then buy a nice 63 or 64. PCGS or CACG.

dval2929

@Cougar1978 said:
MS60 for that scratched up Saint.

I read that they essentially do not give 60s at all. Like this CACG population report says they have assigned 3 grades of 60 out of 2,800+ Saints!

logger7

Not a details coin. Recent scratches worse than the ones you posted could lead to a "details" coin.

golden

I think that it would probably grade at PCGS. I would doubt it at CACG.

leothelyon

Here's a 1938-S Jeff I purchased recently. I had to get pass a rather large mark on the lower coat on Jefferson. While the strike looks full, there are some minor weak areas at the top of Jeff's hair. And as you can see, the luster and toning are phenomenal, almost proof-like. And the steps all 5.25 of them were not called by ANACS but they are there, no marks, bridges whatsoever. So, for the number of highlights, the MS65 coin has given me many reasons to look pass that mark on the coat.
But gold is soft, why would they take those marks serious and give a details grade for the coin? I've had zero success crossing coins unless I cracked them.

Leo

TallahasseeCoinClub

High relief Saints are treated differently than almost all other coins, and problems that will (almost) always earn a "details" grade for any other issue frequently go into straight-grade holders, with an appropriate silent-net grade.