I’m personally upset that they don’t just give us all free gold coins. I mean, not everyone can afford a gold coin so that’s not fair that they aren’t free to anyone who wants one 😇
@jwitten said:
I’m personally upset that they don’t just give us all free gold coins. I mean, not everyone can afford a gold coin so that’s not fair that they aren’t free to anyone who wants one 😇
Yes. Exactly the same thing. Minting to demand is another form of welfare. The arguments are becoming progressively more insightful. Please don't stop. 😇
@jwitten said:
I’m personally upset that they don’t just give us all free gold coins. I mean, not everyone can afford a gold coin so that’s not fair that they aren’t free to anyone who wants one 😇
I would imagine there are people who can't afford proof or mint sets. Therefore, the mint shouldn't make them.
I agree w NJs sentiment. Really turns me off. I'm also the type of collector (sucker?) that the Mint should love as I but so much of the expensive modern stuff.
Re: offsetting any tax bill, I don't think that happens. They just spend more. The appetite for tax revenue is, unfortunately, insatiable.
@Raufus said:
I agree w NJs sentiment. Really turns me off. I'm also the type of collector (sucker?) that the Mint should love as I but so much of the expensive modern stuff.
Re: offsetting any tax bill, I don't think that happens. They just spend more. The appetite for tax revenue is, unfortunately, insatiable.
I've been forever turned off Liberty Nickels because they have included the fantasy 1913 nickel in the set, making it too expensive to complete. Does anyone care? Buehler...? Buehler...?
The Mint is NEVER going to make everyone happy. Some people want limited mintages so they have at least a chance to hold their value. Others want unlimited mintages so they can easily get one. Some want common dreck at reasonable prices. Others want premium material. And some seem to want premium material at dreck prices. Some like clad. Some hate clad. Some like OGP and want premium OGP. Others want everything slabbed. There is no way to make all of those different people happy.
The problem is the OCD of collectors. I don't want a $10k Coach bag because I think it's ridiculous, so I just don't buy one. But with coins, everyone is made because they can't just not buy one.
I wonder what would happen to the price of key dates and circ grade coins if everyone became a type collector. 🤔 How much money is lost to the completeness gene?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jwitten said:
I’m personally upset that they don’t just give us all free gold coins. I mean, not everyone can afford a gold coin so that’s not fair that they aren’t free to anyone who wants one 😇
I would imagine there are people who can't afford proof or mint sets. Therefore, the mint shouldn't make them.
Is that about right?
They should subsidize them for poor people.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
The problem is the OCD of collectors.
It would be less of a problem if collectors personally defined the sets they collected. That way, whatever coins happened to be considered 'unobtainable' could be left out. Unfortunately, most seem to let others decide what comprises the set they're collecting. Oh, well...
@ProofCollection said:
This is again another special offering for the elite numismatic customers that the mint is cultivating. These products are not intended for the members of this forum who are obsessed with intrinsic value. While these will probably auction off in the $20-30k range, if the mint were to stick a $20k price tag on these there would be outrage.
Correct. But it's the same outrage I have anyway. So why are you making a distinction?
I just don't think a public government agency should be using resources and overhead we all pay for, through our taxes and other numismatic purchases, to be cultivating that audience.
Because that's what private companies do. Not the US Mint. If the US Mint wants to become PAMP, it will, and it will reap what it sows. Agree to disagree, but don't deny me my right to that "outrage."
Why are you outraged? Because you are not in the target market? Jealous much?
Sure the US Mint is a public agency, but I don't see why that should relegate them to only making mass market low margin widgets to demand. If the the US Mint public agency can make exclusive products that help offset my tax bill, I'm all for it.
Yes. Jealous. I am a collector. I believe that collector coins made by my US Mint, a US government agency, should be accessible to US citizen taxpayer collectors like me.
It is accessible. You have the same chance as anyone else to buy these on release day as anyone else. That's as accessible as it gets.
These are not. I don't think it's appropriate for the US Mint to be involved in this part of the business. I'm entitled to my opinion.
Your tax bill would be equally offset if they make 50K items and make $100 on each of them as when they make 250 items and make $20K on each of them. So, there's that, elitist.
The mint does not have infinite manufacturing capability, so there's that, fantasist.
@Raufus said:
I agree w NJs sentiment. Really turns me off. I'm also the type of collector (sucker?) that the Mint should love as I but so much of the expensive modern stuff.
Re: offsetting any tax bill, I don't think that happens. They just spend more. The appetite for tax revenue is, unfortunately, insatiable.
I've been forever turned off Liberty Nickels because they have included the fantasy 1913 nickel in the set, making it too expensive to complete. Does anyone care? Buehler...? Buehler...?
The Mint is NEVER going to make everyone happy. Some people want limited mintages so they have at least a chance to hold their value. Others want unlimited mintages so they can easily get one. Some want common dreck at reasonable prices. Others want premium material. And some seem to want premium material at dreck prices. Some like clad. Some hate clad. Some like OGP and want premium OGP. Others want everything slabbed. There is no way to make all of those different people happy.
The problem is the OCD of collectors. I don't want a $10k Coach bag because I think it's ridiculous, so I just don't buy one. But with coins, everyone is made because they can't just not buy one.
I wonder what would happen to the price of key dates and circ grade coins if everyone became a type collector. 🤔 How much money is lost to the completeness gene?
I don't see any comparison between these collector items made in extremely limited numbers to be sold at extremely high prices and most classic rarities such as the 1913, 1933 Saint, etc.
Most of these super expensive, very low mintage issues as of late are not part of any set that I can see.
Personally, I don't collect sets. The only two sets that I've ever collected were the ATB 5 oz sliver pucks and the proof and unc Buffs. The former because I thought it was a fun way to get some silver & it was fun sharing them w/the kids as they arrived via subscription. All of that silver looks pretty good now.
I got into the buffs as they started when I was able to start collecting them from the beginning. While it's a lot of gold by this point, most of which was far cheaper than today, most have little to no numismatic premium. While its been fun collecting them, it was not a smart move given the overall cost and premium to spot that they were purchased at.
I very much regret not collecting the high relief issues. Other than one of them, I really like the series. But, I missed the boat sadly.
From what I've read, I'm not alone in my feelings on these. If the Mint looses a lot of collectors such as myself who buy a lot of the expensive modern stuff year after year, this will prove a penny wise and dollar foolish strategy in the end.
Lastly, I'm sure that many here could afford these but simply won't pay the uber-high price.
@ProofCollection said:
This is again another special offering for the elite numismatic customers that the mint is cultivating. These products are not intended for the members of this forum who are obsessed with intrinsic value. While these will probably auction off in the $20-30k range, if the mint were to stick a $20k price tag on these there would be outrage.
Correct. But it's the same outrage I have anyway. So why are you making a distinction?
I just don't think a public government agency should be using resources and overhead we all pay for, through our taxes and other numismatic purchases, to be cultivating that audience.
Because that's what private companies do. Not the US Mint. If the US Mint wants to become PAMP, it will, and it will reap what it sows. Agree to disagree, but don't deny me my right to that "outrage."
Why are you outraged? Because you are not in the target market? Jealous much?
Sure the US Mint is a public agency, but I don't see why that should relegate them to only making mass market low margin widgets to demand. If the the US Mint public agency can make exclusive products that help offset my tax bill, I'm all for it.
Yes. Jealous. I am a collector. I believe that collector coins made by my US Mint, a US government agency, should be accessible to US citizen taxpayer collectors like me.
It is accessible. You have the same chance as anyone else to buy these on release day as anyone else. That's as accessible as it gets.
These are not. I don't think it's appropriate for the US Mint to be involved in this part of the business. I'm entitled to my opinion.
Your tax bill would be equally offset if they make 50K items and make $100 on each of them as when they make 250 items and make $20K on each of them. So, there's that, elitist.
The mint does not have infinite manufacturing capability, so there's that, fantasist.
No. "As accessible as it gets" is able to be purchased by all who want it, at a price that represents the cost of manufacture, plus a reasonable profit.
Not a 1 in whatever opportunity at whatever insane price the seller sets, because the seller has a monopoly on the production of US coinage. Artificially restricting production to a fraction of organic demand is literally the polar opposite of "as accessible as it gets." It's pretty much as inaccessible as it gets, depending on just how far mintage falls below demand.
The Mint does not need "infinite manufacturing capability" because demand is not infinite. If they can make 2K, they can make 20K, or 100K. They do it every day. They make billions of coins per year. With capacity to spare.
You surely know this, and are just baiting me. To what end is a mystery.
@Rc5280 said:
Accusing others for getting the last word in, while getting the last word in.
"Do as I say, not as I do"
Yes. Because if you can't let it go, then it's not about what I do. I was not accused of needing to get the word in, and then continually denied it while not ceasing to post. That's you and your buddies.
Either you need to get the last word, or you stop posting in an effort to taunt me. If you haven't figured it out by now, there is no such thing, because nothing bothers me.
@ProofCollection said:
This is again another special offering for the elite numismatic customers that the mint is cultivating. These products are not intended for the members of this forum who are obsessed with intrinsic value. While these will probably auction off in the $20-30k range, if the mint were to stick a $20k price tag on these there would be outrage.
Correct. But it's the same outrage I have anyway. So why are you making a distinction?
I just don't think a public government agency should be using resources and overhead we all pay for, through our taxes and other numismatic purchases, to be cultivating that audience.
Because that's what private companies do. Not the US Mint. If the US Mint wants to become PAMP, it will, and it will reap what it sows. Agree to disagree, but don't deny me my right to that "outrage."
Why are you outraged? Because you are not in the target market? Jealous much?
Sure the US Mint is a public agency, but I don't see why that should relegate them to only making mass market low margin widgets to demand. If the the US Mint public agency can make exclusive products that help offset my tax bill, I'm all for it.
Yes. Jealous. I am a collector. I believe that collector coins made by my US Mint, a US government agency, should be accessible to US citizen taxpayer collectors like me.
It is accessible. You have the same chance as anyone else to buy these on release day as anyone else. That's as accessible as it gets.
These are not. I don't think it's appropriate for the US Mint to be involved in this part of the business. I'm entitled to my opinion.
Your tax bill would be equally offset if they make 50K items and make $100 on each of them as when they make 250 items and make $20K on each of them. So, there's that, elitist.
The mint does not have infinite manufacturing capability, so there's that, fantasist.
No. "As accessible as it gets" is able to be purchased by all who want it, at a price that represents the cost of manufacture, plus a reasonable profit.
OK, didn't know you were using a personal definition.
Not a 1 in whatever opportunity at whatever insane price the seller sets, because the seller has a monopoly on the production of US coinage. Artificially restricting production to a fraction of organic demand is literally the polar opposite of "as accessible as it gets." It's pretty much as inaccessible as it gets, depending on just how far mintage falls below demand.
They don't have a monopoly on US coinage unless you mean legal tender. For example, Dan Carr makes US coinage too.
Accessibility has nothing to do with quantity available when the sales method is to give everyone a fair shot via the US mint waiting room. None of them are being pre-sold to dealers. Every buyer is intended to have the same opportunity. That's full accessibility by my definition even though it may require some luck if you're too far back in the virtual line.
They are also not "artificially restricting production." They had a product plan for an exclusive offering and they are executing to that plan. There was never any plan or intent to satisfy full market demand because then it wouldn't be exclusive.
The Mint does not need "infinite manufacturing capability" because demand is not infinite. If they can make 2K, they can make 20K, or 100K. They do it every day. They make billions of coins per year. With capacity to spare.
But your statement suggest that they can just "crap out" 100k more Unc sets on a whim when they realize there is more demand than they anticipated. You have no appreciation for what I expect is a very complicated and full production/factory calendar, the logistics of ordering and procuring additional blanks, production, packaging, the logistics of fulfillment of the quantity of orders and fitting that additional workload into what I expect is a very carefully planned product calendar.
You surely know this, and are just baiting me. To what end is a mystery.
No, you are just so myopic someone has to point these things out to you.
@NJCoin said:
. "As accessible as it gets" is able to be purchased by all who want it, at a price that represents the cost of manufacture, plus a reasonable profit.
They have that, it is called the bullion program. There is no reason for you to cry over the collector coins.
Don't worry, I am pretty much done, as it is apparent that NJCoin is delusional about the mint coin programs, he wants all the products to be run like the bullion program. This is like him complaining that Ferrari needs to stop making expensive cars and build them all like the model -T. It is ludicrous.
It is not debatable at all, in any way possible. Thus you have this endless bickering. Every expensive product that the mint releases that doesn't fit his way ends up like this.
His way bombed and he still can't figure out what it means. It is as simple as it gets.
The mint is finally moving in the right direction and he can't afford the ticket price. Too many today think that is unfair. In the old days they would be told to go get a job and earn what you want.
@ProofCollection said:
This is again another special offering for the elite numismatic customers that the mint is cultivating. These products are not intended for the members of this forum who are obsessed with intrinsic value. While these will probably auction off in the $20-30k range, if the mint were to stick a $20k price tag on these there would be outrage.
Correct. But it's the same outrage I have anyway. So why are you making a distinction?
I just don't think a public government agency should be using resources and overhead we all pay for, through our taxes and other numismatic purchases, to be cultivating that audience.
Because that's what private companies do. Not the US Mint. If the US Mint wants to become PAMP, it will, and it will reap what it sows. Agree to disagree, but don't deny me my right to that "outrage."
Why are you outraged? Because you are not in the target market? Jealous much?
Sure the US Mint is a public agency, but I don't see why that should relegate them to only making mass market low margin widgets to demand. If the the US Mint public agency can make exclusive products that help offset my tax bill, I'm all for it.
Yes. Jealous. I am a collector. I believe that collector coins made by my US Mint, a US government agency, should be accessible to US citizen taxpayer collectors like me.
It is accessible. You have the same chance as anyone else to buy these on release day as anyone else. That's as accessible as it gets.
These are not. I don't think it's appropriate for the US Mint to be involved in this part of the business. I'm entitled to my opinion.
Your tax bill would be equally offset if they make 50K items and make $100 on each of them as when they make 250 items and make $20K on each of them. So, there's that, elitist.
The mint does not have infinite manufacturing capability, so there's that, fantasist.
No. "As accessible as it gets" is able to be purchased by all who want it, at a price that represents the cost of manufacture, plus a reasonable profit.
OK, didn't know you were using a personal definition.
Not a 1 in whatever opportunity at whatever insane price the seller sets, because the seller has a monopoly on the production of US coinage. Artificially restricting production to a fraction of organic demand is literally the polar opposite of "as accessible as it gets." It's pretty much as inaccessible as it gets, depending on just how far mintage falls below demand.
They don't have a monopoly on US coinage unless you mean legal tender. For example, Dan Carr makes US coinage too.
Accessibility has nothing to do with quantity available when the sales method is to give everyone a fair shot via the US mint waiting room. None of them are being pre-sold to dealers. Every buyer is intended to have the same opportunity. That's full accessibility by my definition even though it may require some luck if you're too far back in the virtual line.
They are also not "artificially restricting production." They had a product plan for an exclusive offering and they are executing to that plan. There was never any plan or intent to satisfy full market demand because then it wouldn't be exclusive.
The Mint does not need "infinite manufacturing capability" because demand is not infinite. If they can make 2K, they can make 20K, or 100K. They do it every day. They make billions of coins per year. With capacity to spare.
But your statement suggest that they can just "crap out" 100k more Unc sets on a whim when they realize there is more demand than they anticipated. You have no appreciation for what I expect is a very complicated and full production/factory calendar, the logistics of ordering and procuring additional blanks, production, packaging, the logistics of fulfillment of the quantity of orders and fitting that additional workload into what I expect is a very carefully planned product calendar.
You surely know this, and are just baiting me. To what end is a mystery.
No, you are just so myopic someone has to point these things out to you.
No. I was using a standard definition. Just look it up and try to apply it something available during an extremely narrow window of time to an extremely limited number of people as compared to the number of people who might want to acquire it. Instead of using your own, personal, nonsensical definition.
No. Dan Carr makes tokens by over striking US coinage. he does not "makes US coinage too." That would be against the law. Hence the disclaimer on the labels on the treasures being hawked on HSN. The US Mint has a monopoly on US coinage. Direct from the reverse of the ANACS labels of his latest masterpieces: "This coin is an authentic 2026 Silver Eagle that has been privately overstruck to create this non-mint issue piece - not legal tender." Anyone can make copies labeled as copies. But then no one would care them, would they?
Yes. I have no appreciation of anything. Because they never made anything to demand. Because the logistics, were, are, and always will be impossible.
Don't worry, I am pretty much done, as it is apparent that NJCoin is delusional about the mint coin programs, he wants all the products to be run like the bullion program. This is like him complaining that Ferrari needs to stop making expensive cars and build them all like the model -T. It is ludicrous.
It is not debatable at all, in any way possible. Thus you have this endless bickering. Every expensive product that the mint releases that doesn't fit his way ends up like this.
His way bombed and he still can't figure out what it means. It is as simple as it gets.
The mint is finally moving in the right direction and he can't afford the ticket price. Too many today think that is unfair. In the old days they would be told to go get a job and earn what you want.
Yes. The right direction. 🤣🤣🤣
TBD in its quest to become PAMP or the Franklin Mint. I think they end up turning off far more people than they bring in to the hobby by doing things like this. People might look at them producing things they have no hope to obtain, and then decide not to bother at all, because it's really all just overpriced crap, and the coins people used to collect don't even circulate anymore.
@ProofCollection said:
This is again another special offering for the elite numismatic customers that the mint is cultivating. These products are not intended for the members of this forum who are obsessed with intrinsic value. While these will probably auction off in the $20-30k range, if the mint were to stick a $20k price tag on these there would be outrage.
Correct. But it's the same outrage I have anyway. So why are you making a distinction?
I just don't think a public government agency should be using resources and overhead we all pay for, through our taxes and other numismatic purchases, to be cultivating that audience.
Because that's what private companies do. Not the US Mint. If the US Mint wants to become PAMP, it will, and it will reap what it sows. Agree to disagree, but don't deny me my right to that "outrage."
Why are you outraged? Because you are not in the target market? Jealous much?
Sure the US Mint is a public agency, but I don't see why that should relegate them to only making mass market low margin widgets to demand. If the the US Mint public agency can make exclusive products that help offset my tax bill, I'm all for it.
Yes. Jealous. I am a collector. I believe that collector coins made by my US Mint, a US government agency, should be accessible to US citizen taxpayer collectors like me.
It is accessible. You have the same chance as anyone else to buy these on release day as anyone else. That's as accessible as it gets.
These are not. I don't think it's appropriate for the US Mint to be involved in this part of the business. I'm entitled to my opinion.
Your tax bill would be equally offset if they make 50K items and make $100 on each of them as when they make 250 items and make $20K on each of them. So, there's that, elitist.
The mint does not have infinite manufacturing capability, so there's that, fantasist.
No. "As accessible as it gets" is able to be purchased by all who want it, at a price that represents the cost of manufacture, plus a reasonable profit.
OK, didn't know you were using a personal definition.
Not a 1 in whatever opportunity at whatever insane price the seller sets, because the seller has a monopoly on the production of US coinage. Artificially restricting production to a fraction of organic demand is literally the polar opposite of "as accessible as it gets." It's pretty much as inaccessible as it gets, depending on just how far mintage falls below demand.
They don't have a monopoly on US coinage unless you mean legal tender. For example, Dan Carr makes US coinage too.
Accessibility has nothing to do with quantity available when the sales method is to give everyone a fair shot via the US mint waiting room. None of them are being pre-sold to dealers. Every buyer is intended to have the same opportunity. That's full accessibility by my definition even though it may require some luck if you're too far back in the virtual line.
They are also not "artificially restricting production." They had a product plan for an exclusive offering and they are executing to that plan. There was never any plan or intent to satisfy full market demand because then it wouldn't be exclusive.
The Mint does not need "infinite manufacturing capability" because demand is not infinite. If they can make 2K, they can make 20K, or 100K. They do it every day. They make billions of coins per year. With capacity to spare.
But your statement suggest that they can just "crap out" 100k more Unc sets on a whim when they realize there is more demand than they anticipated. You have no appreciation for what I expect is a very complicated and full production/factory calendar, the logistics of ordering and procuring additional blanks, production, packaging, the logistics of fulfillment of the quantity of orders and fitting that additional workload into what I expect is a very carefully planned product calendar.
You surely know this, and are just baiting me. To what end is a mystery.
No, you are just so myopic someone has to point these things out to you.
No. I was using a standard definition. Just look it up and try to apply it something available during an extremely narrow window of time to an extremely limited number of people as compared to the number of people who might want to acquire it. Instead of using your own, personal, nonsensical definition.
Sorry, it's accessible when everyone has the exact same chance to buy it. Inaccessible or restricting access would be when someone has less opportunity to acquire than someone else. That is not the case here.
No. Dan Carr makes tokens by over striking US coinage. he does not "makes US coinage too." That would be against the law. Hence the disclaimer on the labels on the treasures being hawked on HSN. The US Mint has a monopoly on US coinage. Direct from the reverse of the ANACS labels of his latest masterpieces: "This coin is an authentic 2026 Silver Eagle that has been privately overstruck to create this non-mint issue piece - not legal tender." Anyone can make copies labeled as copies. But then no one would care them, would they?
What you are describing is legal tender. The term "US Coinage" means coins with a US origin. Dan Carr makes those, as do other mints.
Yes. I have no appreciation of anything. Because they never made anything to demand. Because the logistics, were, are, and always will be impossible.
No you're really saying crazy things. I'm not going to bother.
@ProofCollection said:
This is again another special offering for the elite numismatic customers that the mint is cultivating. These products are not intended for the members of this forum who are obsessed with intrinsic value. While these will probably auction off in the $20-30k range, if the mint were to stick a $20k price tag on these there would be outrage.
Correct. But it's the same outrage I have anyway. So why are you making a distinction?
I just don't think a public government agency should be using resources and overhead we all pay for, through our taxes and other numismatic purchases, to be cultivating that audience.
Because that's what private companies do. Not the US Mint. If the US Mint wants to become PAMP, it will, and it will reap what it sows. Agree to disagree, but don't deny me my right to that "outrage."
Why are you outraged? Because you are not in the target market? Jealous much?
Sure the US Mint is a public agency, but I don't see why that should relegate them to only making mass market low margin widgets to demand. If the the US Mint public agency can make exclusive products that help offset my tax bill, I'm all for it.
Yes. Jealous. I am a collector. I believe that collector coins made by my US Mint, a US government agency, should be accessible to US citizen taxpayer collectors like me.
It is accessible. You have the same chance as anyone else to buy these on release day as anyone else. That's as accessible as it gets.
These are not. I don't think it's appropriate for the US Mint to be involved in this part of the business. I'm entitled to my opinion.
Your tax bill would be equally offset if they make 50K items and make $100 on each of them as when they make 250 items and make $20K on each of them. So, there's that, elitist.
The mint does not have infinite manufacturing capability, so there's that, fantasist.
No. "As accessible as it gets" is able to be purchased by all who want it, at a price that represents the cost of manufacture, plus a reasonable profit.
OK, didn't know you were using a personal definition.
Not a 1 in whatever opportunity at whatever insane price the seller sets, because the seller has a monopoly on the production of US coinage. Artificially restricting production to a fraction of organic demand is literally the polar opposite of "as accessible as it gets." It's pretty much as inaccessible as it gets, depending on just how far mintage falls below demand.
They don't have a monopoly on US coinage unless you mean legal tender. For example, Dan Carr makes US coinage too.
Accessibility has nothing to do with quantity available when the sales method is to give everyone a fair shot via the US mint waiting room. None of them are being pre-sold to dealers. Every buyer is intended to have the same opportunity. That's full accessibility by my definition even though it may require some luck if you're too far back in the virtual line.
They are also not "artificially restricting production." They had a product plan for an exclusive offering and they are executing to that plan. There was never any plan or intent to satisfy full market demand because then it wouldn't be exclusive.
The Mint does not need "infinite manufacturing capability" because demand is not infinite. If they can make 2K, they can make 20K, or 100K. They do it every day. They make billions of coins per year. With capacity to spare.
But your statement suggest that they can just "crap out" 100k more Unc sets on a whim when they realize there is more demand than they anticipated. You have no appreciation for what I expect is a very complicated and full production/factory calendar, the logistics of ordering and procuring additional blanks, production, packaging, the logistics of fulfillment of the quantity of orders and fitting that additional workload into what I expect is a very carefully planned product calendar.
You surely know this, and are just baiting me. To what end is a mystery.
No, you are just so myopic someone has to point these things out to you.
No. I was using a standard definition. Just look it up and try to apply it something available during an extremely narrow window of time to an extremely limited number of people as compared to the number of people who might want to acquire it. Instead of using your own, personal, nonsensical definition.
Sorry, it's accessible when everyone has the exact same chance to buy it. Inaccessible or restricting access would be when someone has less opportunity to acquire than someone else. That is not the case here.
No. Dan Carr makes tokens by over striking US coinage. he does not "makes US coinage too." That would be against the law. Hence the disclaimer on the labels on the treasures being hawked on HSN. The US Mint has a monopoly on US coinage. Direct from the reverse of the ANACS labels of his latest masterpieces: "This coin is an authentic 2026 Silver Eagle that has been privately overstruck to create this non-mint issue piece - not legal tender." Anyone can make copies labeled as copies. But then no one would care them, would they?
What you are describing is legal tender. The term "US Coinage" means coins with a US origin. Dan Carr makes those, as do other mints.
Yes. I have no appreciation of anything. Because they never made anything to demand. Because the logistics, were, are, and always will be impossible.
No you're really saying crazy things. I'm not going to bother.
Sorry. No. It's inaccessible, literally, if everyone who wants to cannot access it. Period.
This not only applies to quantity. It also applies to cost.
No. You are wrong. "Coinage" is "legal tender." That's why Dan Carr makes tokens, not coins. He literally takes coins and turns them into tokens when he alters them. Period.
Cambridge dictionary: "coinage, noun, a set of coins of different values used in a country's money system." In other words, money. Legal tender. Not round metal discs originating in one country or another.
Other mints certainly make coins, but no other mints make US coins. That, by definition, is why the US Mint has a monopoly on US coinage.
Good. Don't bother. You honestly don't know what you are talking about anyway.
TBD in its quest to become PAMP or the Franklin Mint. I think they end up turning off far more people than they bring in to the hobby by doing things like this. People might look at them producing things they have no hope to obtain, and then decide not to bother at all, because it's really all just overpriced crap, and the coins people used to collect don't even circulate anymore.
This is all a small part of what the mint does. They make coins for all different collectors, yet you focus on the few that you can't afford because you are green with envy. Yes everyone dropped out of coins once the big gold panpacs came out. The mint blew it back in 1915. Oh wait, it had no impact at all so why are you claiming them doing it today with these will change anything?
Don't answer that because you can't. Just like you couldn't answer a lot of other similar questions other than with "I don't know."
The mint is moving on without you, with products you can't afford. Nobody gets everything in life, we all have to learn it. Just accept it as a lesson you badly need.
He's trolling now. Needing attention and drama is an obvious pattern/MO.
The love/hate relationship with the Mint is interesting, yet not uncommon.
HSN must be airing reruns - what to do, what to do!?
Yes. So keep saying "such a pleasant thread" over and over again. Because that's something other than an attention seeking troll. Which I am happy to respond to, each and every time, in order to provide the attention sought.
TBD in its quest to become PAMP or the Franklin Mint. I think they end up turning off far more people than they bring in to the hobby by doing things like this. People might look at them producing things they have no hope to obtain, and then decide not to bother at all, because it's really all just overpriced crap, and the coins people used to collect don't even circulate anymore.
This is all a small part of what the mint does. They make coins for all different collectors, yet you focus on the few that you can't afford because you are green with envy. Yes everyone dropped out of coins once the big gold panpacs came out. The mint blew it back in 1915. Oh wait, it had no impact at all so why are you claiming them doing it today with these will change anything?
Don't answer that because you can't. Just like you couldn't answer a lot of other similar questions other than with "I don't know."
The mint is moving on without you, with products you can't afford. Nobody gets everything in life, we all have to learn it. Just accept it as a lesson you badly need.
No. I do know. Maybe because the Mint minted to demand in 1915, and they are valuable today specifically because organic demand did not exist in 1915. Not because they artificially restricted anything.
As high as the price was back then, it think it was exactly 2x intrinsic value. Not 25x.
And, if the premium was being used to subsidize the Exposition, rather than lining the pocket of the Treasury, that would actually be a legitimate reason for the surcharge. Exactly like commemoratives today.
Apples and oranges. But feel free to keep thinking all fruit is the same, because some website somewhere draws a comparison you like.
Not sure where the Mint is or isn't moving on to. Either way, I don't have to fall in line and like it. Sorry if you don't think I'm entitled to an opinion.
@NJCoin said:
Not sure where the Mint is or isn't moving on to. Either way, I don't have to fall in line and like it. Sorry if you don't think I'm entitled to an opinion.
You don't have the money to fall in line, so why all the interest in spoiling it for everyone else? You are like the fly in the restaurant.
I doubt you change one mind with all this, and it has zero effect on the mint.
You also haven't made the case about how the mint should not be doing this. Historically I point out that the panpacs had zero effect, so it is obvious these won't either. Will you accept that? No.
Instead it is some lecture on greed by the treasury.
Always not accepting facts, or reverting it to being apples and oranges.
It is too bad this is not an unrestricted message board as I would carry this to where it needs to go, but can't due to my abiding by the forum rules. So I will leave it at that.
@NJCoin said:
Not sure where the Mint is or isn't moving on to. Either way, I don't have to fall in line and like it. Sorry if you don't think I'm entitled to an opinion.
You don't have the money to fall in line, so why all the interest in spoiling it for everyone else? You are like the fly in the restaurant.
I doubt you change one mind with all this, and it has zero effect on the mint.
You also haven't made the case about how the mint should not be doing this. Historically I point out that the panpacs had zero effect, so it is obvious these won't either. Will you accept that? No.
Instead it is some lecture on greed by the treasury.
Always not accepting facts, or reverting it to being apples and oranges.
It is too bad this is not an unrestricted message board as I would carry this to where it needs to go, but can't due to my abiding by the forum rules. So I will leave it at that.
You have absolutely no idea how much money I do or do not have. None at all. And you won't. None of your business, one way or the other.
"Spoiling it for everyone else." 🤣🤣🤣
Not to mention, the less money anyone has, the more reason they would have to be upset over Mint releases priced out of their reach, not due to intrinsic value, but due to deliberate production decisions. Selling a 10 ounce gold coin people cannot afford is one thing. Selling a one ounce coin for 5x spot is quite another. Same with a half ounce of silver at $1,500 per ounce.
Just expressing a view. I have no illusions about telling Hollis how to run the Mint.
My "case" is not specific to this. I have been saying, repeatedly, at length, with respect to everything, that the Mint should not be flooding the market, but should be minting slightly below demand, in order to support secondary market value, and pricing at a reasonable premium to the cost of production. The goal should be to sell as much as the market will support. Not provide a side hustle for flippers and buyer club operators and members.
They should not be competing with PAMP in the market for instant rarities. They should be satisfying collector demand. They are a government agency. Not a bespoke concierge private mint.
Yes. "It is too bad this is not an unrestricted message board," so you can't further humiliate yourself in a fruitless effort to profanely or personally insult me. It's fine, I get what you want to do, and am accordingly shocked, hurt and insulted, even though you actually don't decide where anything "needs to go." 🤣🤣🤣
Rest assured, nothing you could possibly say would bother me at all. Not even a little. So, yeah, retain your posting privileges and "leave it at that."
You can also just stop responding to me. But you can't help yourself. People don't want bickering, but you need to have the last word. Which I won't give you. So just keep going. Fine with me.
Comments
Wow, the envy is deep.
I’m personally upset that they don’t just give us all free gold coins. I mean, not everyone can afford a gold coin so that’s not fair that they aren’t free to anyone who wants one 😇
Yes. Exactly the same thing. Minting to demand is another form of welfare. The arguments are becoming progressively more insightful. Please don't stop. 😇
I would imagine there are people who can't afford proof or mint sets. Therefore, the mint shouldn't make them.
Is that about right?
I agree w NJs sentiment. Really turns me off. I'm also the type of collector (sucker?) that the Mint should love as I but so much of the expensive modern stuff.
Re: offsetting any tax bill, I don't think that happens. They just spend more. The appetite for tax revenue is, unfortunately, insatiable.
I've been forever turned off Liberty Nickels because they have included the fantasy 1913 nickel in the set, making it too expensive to complete. Does anyone care? Buehler...? Buehler...?
The Mint is NEVER going to make everyone happy. Some people want limited mintages so they have at least a chance to hold their value. Others want unlimited mintages so they can easily get one. Some want common dreck at reasonable prices. Others want premium material. And some seem to want premium material at dreck prices. Some like clad. Some hate clad. Some like OGP and want premium OGP. Others want everything slabbed. There is no way to make all of those different people happy.
The problem is the OCD of collectors. I don't want a $10k Coach bag because I think it's ridiculous, so I just don't buy one. But with coins, everyone is made because they can't just not buy one.
I wonder what would happen to the price of key dates and circ grade coins if everyone became a type collector. 🤔 How much money is lost to the completeness gene?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They should subsidize them for poor people.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It would be less of a problem if collectors personally defined the sets they collected. That way, whatever coins happened to be considered 'unobtainable' could be left out. Unfortunately, most seem to let others decide what comprises the set they're collecting. Oh, well...
It is accessible. You have the same chance as anyone else to buy these on release day as anyone else. That's as accessible as it gets.
The mint does not have infinite manufacturing capability, so there's that, fantasist.
I don't see any comparison between these collector items made in extremely limited numbers to be sold at extremely high prices and most classic rarities such as the 1913, 1933 Saint, etc.
Most of these super expensive, very low mintage issues as of late are not part of any set that I can see.
Personally, I don't collect sets. The only two sets that I've ever collected were the ATB 5 oz sliver pucks and the proof and unc Buffs. The former because I thought it was a fun way to get some silver & it was fun sharing them w/the kids as they arrived via subscription. All of that silver looks pretty good now.
I got into the buffs as they started when I was able to start collecting them from the beginning. While it's a lot of gold by this point, most of which was far cheaper than today, most have little to no numismatic premium. While its been fun collecting them, it was not a smart move given the overall cost and premium to spot that they were purchased at.
I very much regret not collecting the high relief issues. Other than one of them, I really like the series. But, I missed the boat sadly.
From what I've read, I'm not alone in my feelings on these. If the Mint looses a lot of collectors such as myself who buy a lot of the expensive modern stuff year after year, this will prove a penny wise and dollar foolish strategy in the end.
Lastly, I'm sure that many here could afford these but simply won't pay the uber-high price.
No. "As accessible as it gets" is able to be purchased by all who want it, at a price that represents the cost of manufacture, plus a reasonable profit.
Not a 1 in whatever opportunity at whatever insane price the seller sets, because the seller has a monopoly on the production of US coinage. Artificially restricting production to a fraction of organic demand is literally the polar opposite of "as accessible as it gets." It's pretty much as inaccessible as it gets, depending on just how far mintage falls below demand.
The Mint does not need "infinite manufacturing capability" because demand is not infinite. If they can make 2K, they can make 20K, or 100K. They do it every day. They make billions of coins per year. With capacity to spare.
You surely know this, and are just baiting me. To what end is a mystery.
Accusing others for getting the last word in, while getting the last word in.
"Do as I say, not as I do"
Yes. Because if you can't let it go, then it's not about what I do. I was not accused of needing to get the word in, and then continually denied it while not ceasing to post. That's you and your buddies.
Either you need to get the last word, or you stop posting in an effort to taunt me. If you haven't figured it out by now, there is no such thing, because nothing bothers me.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. 🤣🤣🤣
OK, didn't know you were using a personal definition.
They don't have a monopoly on US coinage unless you mean legal tender. For example, Dan Carr makes US coinage too.
Accessibility has nothing to do with quantity available when the sales method is to give everyone a fair shot via the US mint waiting room. None of them are being pre-sold to dealers. Every buyer is intended to have the same opportunity. That's full accessibility by my definition even though it may require some luck if you're too far back in the virtual line.
They are also not "artificially restricting production." They had a product plan for an exclusive offering and they are executing to that plan. There was never any plan or intent to satisfy full market demand because then it wouldn't be exclusive.
But your statement suggest that they can just "crap out" 100k more Unc sets on a whim when they realize there is more demand than they anticipated. You have no appreciation for what I expect is a very complicated and full production/factory calendar, the logistics of ordering and procuring additional blanks, production, packaging, the logistics of fulfillment of the quantity of orders and fitting that additional workload into what I expect is a very carefully planned product calendar.
No, you are just so myopic someone has to point these things out to you.
They have that, it is called the bullion program. There is no reason for you to cry over the collector coins.
This sounds borderline psycho.
such a pleasant thread
Don't worry, I am pretty much done, as it is apparent that NJCoin is delusional about the mint coin programs, he wants all the products to be run like the bullion program. This is like him complaining that Ferrari needs to stop making expensive cars and build them all like the model -T. It is ludicrous.
It is not debatable at all, in any way possible. Thus you have this endless bickering. Every expensive product that the mint releases that doesn't fit his way ends up like this.
His way bombed and he still can't figure out what it means. It is as simple as it gets.
The mint is finally moving in the right direction and he can't afford the ticket price. Too many today think that is unfair. In the old days they would be told to go get a job and earn what you want.
No. I was using a standard definition. Just look it up and try to apply it something available during an extremely narrow window of time to an extremely limited number of people as compared to the number of people who might want to acquire it. Instead of using your own, personal, nonsensical definition.
No. Dan Carr makes tokens by over striking US coinage. he does not "makes US coinage too." That would be against the law. Hence the disclaimer on the labels on the treasures being hawked on HSN. The US Mint has a monopoly on US coinage. Direct from the reverse of the ANACS labels of his latest masterpieces: "This coin is an authentic 2026 Silver Eagle that has been privately overstruck to create this non-mint issue piece - not legal tender." Anyone can make copies labeled as copies. But then no one would care them, would they?
Yes. I have no appreciation of anything. Because they never made anything to demand. Because the logistics, were, are, and always will be impossible.
Keep going. Because I'm "borderline psycho" and you don't need to get the last word.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. 🤣🤣🤣
Glad you are enjoying. I am here for your amusement.
Yes. The right direction. 🤣🤣🤣
TBD in its quest to become PAMP or the Franklin Mint. I think they end up turning off far more people than they bring in to the hobby by doing things like this. People might look at them producing things they have no hope to obtain, and then decide not to bother at all, because it's really all just overpriced crap, and the coins people used to collect don't even circulate anymore.
Sorry, it's accessible when everyone has the exact same chance to buy it. Inaccessible or restricting access would be when someone has less opportunity to acquire than someone else. That is not the case here.
What you are describing is legal tender. The term "US Coinage" means coins with a US origin. Dan Carr makes those, as do other mints.
No you're really saying crazy things. I'm not going to bother.
Sorry. No. It's inaccessible, literally, if everyone who wants to cannot access it. Period.
This not only applies to quantity. It also applies to cost.
No. You are wrong. "Coinage" is "legal tender." That's why Dan Carr makes tokens, not coins. He literally takes coins and turns them into tokens when he alters them. Period.
Cambridge dictionary: "coinage, noun, a set of coins of different values used in a country's money system." In other words, money. Legal tender. Not round metal discs originating in one country or another.
Other mints certainly make coins, but no other mints make US coins. That, by definition, is why the US Mint has a monopoly on US coinage.
Good. Don't bother. You honestly don't know what you are talking about anyway.
He's trolling now. Needing attention and drama is an obvious pattern/MO.
The love/hate relationship with the Mint is interesting, yet not uncommon.
HSN must be airing reruns - what to do, what to do!?
This is all a small part of what the mint does. They make coins for all different collectors, yet you focus on the few that you can't afford because you are green with envy. Yes everyone dropped out of coins once the big gold panpacs came out. The mint blew it back in 1915. Oh wait, it had no impact at all so why are you claiming them doing it today with these will change anything?
Don't answer that because you can't. Just like you couldn't answer a lot of other similar questions other than with "I don't know."
The mint is moving on without you, with products you can't afford. Nobody gets everything in life, we all have to learn it. Just accept it as a lesson you badly need.
Yes. So keep saying "such a pleasant thread" over and over again. Because that's something other than an attention seeking troll. Which I am happy to respond to, each and every time, in order to provide the attention sought.
No. I do know. Maybe because the Mint minted to demand in 1915, and they are valuable today specifically because organic demand did not exist in 1915. Not because they artificially restricted anything.
As high as the price was back then, it think it was exactly 2x intrinsic value. Not 25x.
And, if the premium was being used to subsidize the Exposition, rather than lining the pocket of the Treasury, that would actually be a legitimate reason for the surcharge. Exactly like commemoratives today.
Apples and oranges. But feel free to keep thinking all fruit is the same, because some website somewhere draws a comparison you like.
Not sure where the Mint is or isn't moving on to. Either way, I don't have to fall in line and like it. Sorry if you don't think I'm entitled to an opinion.
You don't have the money to fall in line, so why all the interest in spoiling it for everyone else? You are like the fly in the restaurant.
I doubt you change one mind with all this, and it has zero effect on the mint.
You also haven't made the case about how the mint should not be doing this. Historically I point out that the panpacs had zero effect, so it is obvious these won't either. Will you accept that? No.
Instead it is some lecture on greed by the treasury.
Always not accepting facts, or reverting it to being apples and oranges.
It is too bad this is not an unrestricted message board as I would carry this to where it needs to go, but can't due to my abiding by the forum rules. So I will leave it at that.
You have absolutely no idea how much money I do or do not have. None at all. And you won't. None of your business, one way or the other.
"Spoiling it for everyone else." 🤣🤣🤣
Not to mention, the less money anyone has, the more reason they would have to be upset over Mint releases priced out of their reach, not due to intrinsic value, but due to deliberate production decisions. Selling a 10 ounce gold coin people cannot afford is one thing. Selling a one ounce coin for 5x spot is quite another. Same with a half ounce of silver at $1,500 per ounce.
Just expressing a view. I have no illusions about telling Hollis how to run the Mint.
My "case" is not specific to this. I have been saying, repeatedly, at length, with respect to everything, that the Mint should not be flooding the market, but should be minting slightly below demand, in order to support secondary market value, and pricing at a reasonable premium to the cost of production. The goal should be to sell as much as the market will support. Not provide a side hustle for flippers and buyer club operators and members.
They should not be competing with PAMP in the market for instant rarities. They should be satisfying collector demand. They are a government agency. Not a bespoke concierge private mint.
Yes. "It is too bad this is not an unrestricted message board," so you can't further humiliate yourself in a fruitless effort to profanely or personally insult me. It's fine, I get what you want to do, and am accordingly shocked, hurt and insulted, even though you actually don't decide where anything "needs to go." 🤣🤣🤣
Rest assured, nothing you could possibly say would bother me at all. Not even a little. So, yeah, retain your posting privileges and "leave it at that."
You can also just stop responding to me. But you can't help yourself. People don't want bickering, but you need to have the last word. Which I won't give you. So just keep going. Fine with me.
NJCoin said to HD,
"Rest assured, everything you could possibly say bothers me. A lot. So, yeah, retain your posting privileges and "leave it at that."
" People don't want bickering, but I need to have the last word. Which I won't give you."
There, I fixed it for you NJ!.