1944 Steely. Opions wanted.

BC865

So my buddy came to me with this a cpl weeks ago.  I honestly think it's the real deal . It's a 1944 Steel Penny.  I've ran over it with an earth magnet and a cheap-o magnet, it sticks. Put it on the scales and it weighs 2.6 grams.

That's what we know and can definitely show proof of. Here is the only two images I have of the coin.

Obviously the two most likely scenarios are a plated copper or an altered date off a '43 Steel.
Correct me if I'm wrong here but if it was Plated Copper would the weight not be close to 3.11g instead of 2.6g? What other test can be done to verify that this is legit? .

Has anyone dealt with something like this before? What would you do next? Worth sending to PCGS or NGC or are we missing something obvious here?

Appreciate any input.

johnny9434

I'd pass. Steelies are a tough one and that has some problems on both sides of the coin. I think you could do way better, just my opinion

BC865

What kind of problems? School me here.

MWallace

@johnny9434 said:
I'd pass. Steelies are a tough one and that has some problems on both sides of the coin. I think you could do way better, just my opinion

He says it's a "1944".

coinbuf

Altered date or outright counterfeit is my guess, you can do a specific gravity test to determine the metal composition. The weight you have given is wrong for a steel planchet as well.

MsMorrisine

put it on the scale and take a picture of it on the scale showing the weight

FredWeinberg

Weight is wrong and I don’t like the reverse photo – looks counterfeit

BC865

@MsMorrisine said:
put it on the scale and take a picture of it on the scale showing the weight

Absolutely. I'll post those as soon as I can.

BC865

@coinbuf said:
Altered date or outright counterfeit is my guess, you can do a specific gravity test to determine the metal composition. The weight you have given is wrong for a steel planchet as well.

Right... 2.7g is where it should be correct? Other than the magnet test and weight what's other ways to test this thing?

FlyingAl

Looks like a counterfeit. Obverse is missing a lot of detail.

MsMorrisine

specific gravity test

better pictures of it outside that holder

braddick

Here is one that ANACS determined was counterfeit although the weight is correct and it does stick to a magnet.
I keep it in this Dansco cent album just for kicks.

jmlanzaf

jmlanzaf

You can buy all you want for $2 at aliexpress.

The date looks wrong. Likely Chinese counterfeit. As such, weight and specific gravity are likely useless.

jonathanb

I'll be the contrarian and say that I don't totally hate it. But the odds are certainly not in your favor, and those pictures aren't enough to say much of anything for sure.

2windy2fish

If i knew what an Opion was i would be happy to share one with you…

DesertCoin

If it snaps to a magnet send it to PCGS right off. It's worth the gamble.

rte592

So a couple weeks ago did your buddy test it with a magnet?
Results of the magnet test?
Second test would be the weight.
Is the weigh closer to the copper cent coated in mercury or nickel plated?
OR a steel cent weight?
High probability it's a fake compared to 30 known real ones.

MFeld

The coin looks counterfeit to me.

Goob

Looks to be counterfeit
Either recolored or plated

MFeld

@Goob said:
Looks to be counterfeit
Either recolored or plated

How many bronze cents have you seen recolored, so as to appear zinc?

Goob

@MFeld said:

@Goob said:
Looks to be counterfeit
Either recolored or plated

How many bronze cents have you seen recolored, so as to appear zinc?

I don't necessarily look at steel cents (or counterfeits) much but I would imagine it's happened before, I mean people certainly have the materials to do so

MFeld

@Goob said:

@MFeld said:

@Goob said:
Looks to be counterfeit
Either recolored or plated

How many bronze cents have you seen recolored, so as to appear zinc?

I don't necessarily look at steel cents (or counterfeits) much but I would imagine it's happened before, I mean people certainly have the materials to do so

I don’t recall having seen any and I’m old.
There’s nothing to indicate that was done here. And my point was, it’s better not to just throw possibilities against the wall in case they might stick.

Goob

@MFeld said:

@Goob said:

@MFeld said:

@Goob said:
Looks to be counterfeit
Either recolored or plated

How many bronze cents have you seen recolored, so as to appear zinc?

I don't necessarily look at steel cents (or counterfeits) much but I would imagine it's happened before, I mean people certainly have the materials to do so

I don’t recall having seen any and I’m old.
There’s nothing to indicate that was done here. And my point was, it’s better not to just throw possibilities against the wall in case they might stick.

Fair enough
I'm not the best with determining things like that so I'm obviously apt to be incorrect in any way (if not completely wrong)

SullivanNumismatics

It looks like a counterfeit to me. The weak, mushy design detail is the 1st giveaway.

TallahasseeCoinClub

Fake.

I was permitted to watch one being made MANY years ago. They planed the obverse off of a 1943 steel cent and the reverse off a 1944 bronze cent, welded them together, then zinc plated the whole thing. It weighed spot-on and stuck to a magnet but the thickness was slightly off.

I don't know that you have one like that but given the complexity of the process I watched, it's easy to imagine there are much easier ways to produce other fakes.

CaptHenway

Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

logger7

Not a chance.

MFeld

@CaptHenway said:
Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

Unless the pictures are giving a false impression of how mushy the coin’s design details are, I don’t see how it could be genuine.

jmlanzaf

@Goob said:

@MFeld said:

@Goob said:

@MFeld said:

@Goob said:
Looks to be counterfeit
Either recolored or plated

How many bronze cents have you seen recolored, so as to appear zinc?

I don't necessarily look at steel cents (or counterfeits) much but I would imagine it's happened before, I mean people certainly have the materials to do so

I don’t recall having seen any and I’m old.
There’s nothing to indicate that was done here. And my point was, it’s better not to just throw possibilities against the wall in case they might stick.

Fair enough
I'm not the best with determining things like that so I'm obviously apt to be incorrect in any way (if not completely wrong)

"Recolored" would give you the original color. You can't "recolor" a bronze coin and end up with zinc.

jonathanb

@MFeld said:

@CaptHenway said:
Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

Unless the pictures are giving a false impression of how mushy the coin’s design details are, I don’t see how it could be genuine.

Can you point to where the design details look mushy in the original pictures? Several people have mentioned mushy details. I agree that the pictures are "not great". Nothing seems obviously worse to me than pictures that are bad to start with.

seanq

@jonathanb said:

@MFeld said:

@CaptHenway said:
Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

Unless the pictures are giving a false impression of how mushy the coin’s design details are, I don’t see how it could be genuine.

Can you point to where the design details look mushy in the original pictures? Several people have mentioned mushy details. I agree that the pictures are "not great". Nothing seems obviously worse to me than pictures that are bad to start with.

I don't love the shape of the date, the nose and mouth look off, and the bottom of the hair behind the ear is very hard to see. I honestly think the best thing it has going for it is the rust, which to me is an indication of both age and composition. If it is a fake, I do not think it is a modern China variety.

Sean Reynolds

CaptHenway

@MFeld said:

@CaptHenway said:
Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

Unless the pictures are giving a false impression of how mushy the coin’s design details are, I don’t see how it could be genuine.

All I am saying is that the coin merits being looked at by somebody competent. We don't know until we know.

Decades ago I used to tell people who called to say that somebody was offering to sell them one of the DuPont 1804 dollar for x dollars in cash that is was a con game, like the old Mona Lisa con game from the early 1900's. One such buyer ignored my advice and bought the coin and flew to Colorado Springs with it, where I gave him the bad news. However, another time I got a potential buyer to walk away from the deal, and about a year later got proof that the coin he had been offered was LITERALLY the Linderman Specimen that I had just recovered.

As the Editor at one of the old-time newspapers in Chicago used to say to his Reporters: "If your Mother says she loves you, check it out!"

BillJones

The 4’s don’t look right. I’ll use the PC term. It’s a fantasy coin.

jonathanb

@seanq said:

@jonathanb said:

@MFeld said:

@CaptHenway said:
Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

Unless the pictures are giving a false impression of how mushy the coin’s design details are, I don’t see how it could be genuine.

Can you point to where the design details look mushy in the original pictures? Several people have mentioned mushy details. I agree that the pictures are "not great". Nothing seems obviously worse to me than pictures that are bad to start with.

I don't love the shape of the date, the nose and mouth look off, and the bottom of the hair behind the ear is very hard to see. I honestly think the best thing it has going for it is the rust, which to me is an indication of both age and composition. If it is a fake, I do not think it is a modern China variety.

Sean Reynolds

Hm, yeah, now I think I see what you're talking about.

Better pictures would still be nice. But no matter how good the pictures are, it's unlikely that this is real.

cmerlo1

I need better photos.

MFeld

@jonathanb said:

@MFeld said:

@CaptHenway said:
Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

Unless the pictures are giving a false impression of how mushy the coin’s design details are, I don’t see how it could be genuine.

Can you point to where the design details look mushy in the original pictures? Several people have mentioned mushy details. I agree that the pictures are "not great". Nothing seems obviously worse to me than pictures that are bad to start with.

i realize that the images might be distorting the view. However, among other areas, much of the reverse lettering and portions of the wheat stalks look particularly weak/mushy.

MFeld

@CaptHenway said:

@MFeld said:

@CaptHenway said:
Those pictures (thro0ugh plastic! sheesh!) are not good enough to say anything about the coin, but neither do they give me any reason to condemn it. I would suggest4 that you have it looked at by a dealer experienced enough to have some idea if it is good or bad, and if he or she says it has a chance submit it to a TPG.

Unless the pictures are giving a false impression of how mushy the coin’s design details are, I don’t see how it could be genuine.

All I am saying is that the coin merits being looked at by somebody competent. We don't know until we know.

Decades ago I used to tell people who called to say that somebody was offering to sell them one of the DuPont 1804 dollar for x dollars in cash that is was a con game, like the old Mona Lisa con game from the early 1900's. One such buyer ignored my advice and bought the coin and flew to Colorado Springs with it, where I gave him the bad news. However, another time I got a potential buyer to walk away from the deal, and about a year later got proof that the coin he had been offered was LITERALLY the Linderman Specimen that I had just recovered.

As the Editor at one of the old-time newspapers in Chicago used to say to his Reporters: "If your Mother says she loves you, check it out!"

Understood.

rte592

@cmerlo1 said:
I need better photos.

Like a Picture on a Scale.
And a Picture sticking to a Magnet.

TallahasseeCoinClub

If I am not mistaken, the genuine 1944 steel cents are generally not as well struck as their bronze counterparts.

MFeld

@TallahasseeCoinClub said:
If I am not mistaken, the genuine 1944 steel cents are generally not as well struck as their bronze counterparts.

ambro51

The front and back look like they’re from 2 different coins, both unnatural looking. Steel planchets were stamped from sheets of steel which were zinc plated. The outer rims, edges, are plain unplated steel. XRF would detect this. •••. but overall it looks fake. But Seriously this hasn’t been tested with a magnet yet? How can one possibly resist??

MasonG

@ambro51 said:
But Seriously this hasn’t been tested with a magnet yet? How can one possibly resist??

From the first post:

"I've ran over it with an earth magnet and a cheap-o magnet, it sticks."

JBK

Why does the first part of the OP appear in a box that must be scrolled through? 🤔

Anyway, here it is:

So my buddy came to me with this a cpl weeks ago. I honestly think it's the real deal . It's a 1944 Steel 1944 Steel Penny. I've ran over it with an earth magnet and a cheap-o magnet, it sticks. Put it on the scales and it weighs 2.6 grams.

Coins3675

It looks counterfiet to me

CaptHenway

@BC865 said:
What kind of problems? School me here.

Can you get better pictures of it, taken OUT of the holder?

NotSure

@BillJones said:
The 4’s don’t look right. I’ll use the PC term. It’s a fantasy coin.

I agree, especially that second 4....my first thought was it looked to be smaller than the first