Indian Head Gold - Identifying Counterfeits

cinque1543

I posted this item in a related thread, but didn't want to highjack that thread, so decided to start a new entry.

I've read that Indian Head gold coins, both the $5 and $2.50 denominations, have been heavily faked. So the safe way to go is to purchase coins authenticated and slabbed by a TPG. I certainly understand this. But I'd still like have a raw Indian Head that I could hold in my hand. I've seen them sold raw at coin shows, but I wonder if the dealers themselves really know whether the coins are authentic or counterfeited. What do you think?
Note: When I say “counterfeit”, I mean a coin that has the correct gold content, but was not produced by the U.S. Mint. This is in contrast to a “fake” coin, which doesn’t even have the correct gold content. I don't know if this is the correct terminology or not, but it's what I mean in this post. A "fake" coin, of course, would be easier to detect a with ping test or a Sigma device.

BillJones

If you want to handle you coins directly, you best option is to buy a certified coin and crack it out. I wanted to form a short set of Walking Liberty Half Dollars, 1941 - 1947. I bought all but three of the coins raw. I cracked out three pieces. That was what economics professor called “a consumption act.” It was an instant money loser.

I would remind you that handling coins excessively is not a good idea. You can damage them and lower their value. Before there were slabs, I paid for custom made Capital Plastics holders for my better coins.

if you are an expert, you can find raw $2.50 and $5 gold raw, but getting stuck with a counterfeit is no fun. If you want to see how gold coins feel in your hands, the Liberty type coins are easier to find. Sometimes they are sold in circulated grades at less than the spot price.

291fifth

The counterfeits made in the late 1970s/early 1980s were usually of full weight and proper composition. Many were apparently made from gold obtained by melting down genuine $10 & $20 gold coins. Look for casting bubbles on the surfaces. These were well made counterfeits designed to take advantage of the premiums attached to US gold coins of denominations less than $10.

As Bill Jones advises, if you want a genuine piece to hold in your hand buy a slabbed coin and crack it out.

PerryHall

@cinque1543 said:
**Note: **When I say “counterfeit”, I mean a coin that has the correct gold content, but was not produced by the U.S. Mint. This is in contrast to a “fake” coin, which doesn’t even have the correct gold content. I don't know if this is the correct terminology or not, but it's what I mean in this post. A "fake" coin, of course, would be easier to detect a with ping test or a Sigma device.

Fake and counterfeit are the same similar to automobile and car.

cinque1543

@BillJones said:
If you want to handle you coins directly, you best option is to buy a certified coin and crack it out.

Good thought. Thanks.

coinbuf

I guess you are inquiring about the $2.50 and $5.00 incuse gold coins even though your title says gold dollar. While not foolproof and not the only thing to look for, roughness at the back of the neck can be a sign of a counterfeit.

BillJones

@coinbuf said:
I guess you are inquiring about the $2.50 and $5.00 incuse gold coins even though your title says gold dollar. While not foolproof and not the only thing to look for, roughness at the back of the neck can be a sign of a counterfeit.

Yea some of the counterfeiters have no done a good job at smoothing that area out. I don’t understand why because it’s the highest part of the die.

Alpha2814

Also reminder that if you do crack one out, you'll have a harder time selling it in the future because it will be raw/unauthenticated.

CaptHenway

@291fifth said:
The counterfeits made in the late 1970s/early 1980s were usually of full weight and proper composition. Many were apparently made from gold obtained by melting down genuine $10 & $20 gold coins. Look for casting bubbles on the surfaces. These were well made counterfeits designed to take advantage of the premiums attached to US gold coins of denominations less than $10.

As Bill Jones advises, if you want a genuine piece to hold in your hand buy a slabbed coin and crack it out.

Those good quality counterfeits were die-struck, not cast.

MsMorrisine

considering our resident anti-counterfeit hound has found and posted about finding counterfeits in dealer cases, i would say do not rely on a random dealer's eye. if you want to do the crackout that is safest and fastest. if you want to also please your eye, get the name of a reputable dealer in that area. there is plenty of graded common date and common grade gold out there that you are in a buyer's market

johnny9434

@PerryHall said:

@cinque1543 said:
**Note: **When I say “counterfeit”, I mean a coin that has the correct gold content, but was not produced by the U.S. Mint. This is in contrast to a “fake” coin, which doesn’t even have the correct gold content. I don't know if this is the correct terminology or not, but it's what I mean in this post. A "fake" coin, of course, would be easier to detect a with ping test or a Sigma device.

Fake and counterfeit are the same similar to automobile and car.

One of the same

hummingbird_coins

Here is one I spotted on ebay 2 months ago. I am sure there have been more since then, I just don't search for gold coins often. I messaged the seller to take it down but they didn't. I only found this listing less than a day before it ended, so hopefully the seller messaged the winning bidder about it.

golden

About 55 years ago I bought 5 $2.5 and 5 $5 Indians and 5 $ 2.5 liberties from a dealer that had an ad on the back of the CDN. They were all fake. I turned them all over to the Secret Service. They paid him a visit. I got my money back and he never advertised any gold coins again. Be very careful.