Bullion Vs. Numismatics
Walkerfan
Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is one of my favorite Youtubers and content creators. This video really hit home for me. I remember back around the year 2000; I thought about starting to stack gold. I decided against it, because I felt that building a set of something was a lot more challenging, educational and fun. Bullion is boring. So in 2005; I chose Walkers. Numismatically, I have done well. But, I probably would have a higher asset value (right now) had I chose gold. I have heard people on here say that numismatics is a luxury and that bullion is a commodity. I don’t know if I believe that, completely. Bullion is very volatile, right now, while numismatics continues to increase at an upward pace. What are your thoughts? I don’t regret my decision…. I thought this was a good idea for a thread and discussion.
https://youtu.be/PkBj5h8Igp8?si=mmERGrBA1bI7PAQFSometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
Comments
Personally i believe that is a question of 2 separate thought processes.
Are you in the hobby to create wealth or enjoy your time collecting?
They are not necessarily mutually exclusive but if you collect/invest in what you enjoy then the financial gains don’t really matter.
My thoughts? Buying bullion is investing and numismatics is a hobby. Different categories, not really comparable. I know some people consider their coin collections to be an investment, but I don't. As always, YMMV.
Both are important to me.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I combine both. Been wkg on set of Mexico 1oz Libertads plus coins of birthdates of interest - family, friends, etc.
Exactly this.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
But gold and/or silver could correct or crash.
Numismatics has been, historically, more upward trending and stable.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
So could any investment.
Why can't a collection be considered both bullion and numismatic? The large majority of my focus over the past decade has been slabbed pre33 gold. I never chased rare dates, cacs stickers, gems etc. Just historic crusty old gold coins at or near the price of spot. Some will argue that common date eagles are considered bullion and not numismatic, but I disagree. I get the best of both worlds. My collection is certainly a hobby and at present time also one of my best investments. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Had I decided to pursue gold; I would’ve bought generic Saints and not gold Eagles.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Bullion Vs. Numismatics
Here's one measure- if you went to sell one of the coins from your collection, would the dealer pull out the greysheet or look up the spot price on the internet?
Everyone knows that the greysheet is not accurate, especially, for unique and rare pieces. I would send them to auction and let the market decide.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Of course they do. In your previous post, you said: "Had I decided to pursue gold; I would’ve bought generic Saints and not gold Eagles."
"Generic", not "unique". That's what I was talking about.
My bad. I misunderstood.
Didn’t know you were comparing generic gold to gold bullion.
Thought you were comparing gold to numismatics.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Both and hopefully a good selection of goods
I meant comparing bullion value vs. numismatic value for the purposes of a buyer determining which to use in order to decide what they would pay.
Once again, that only works with generic numismatic dates and not rare numismatic coins. When I said ‘generic’, I meant common date gold and not numismatics.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I agree , I hate bullion, buy it and sell it daily in store, boring and unintresting, but this recent run up had my self questioning, Had I known it would do that, would have sold my coins, bought bullion, and unloaded at the high, repurchased some of the coins later. I do have a few that would probably not have be offered again, but Im sure I could have found other intresting pieces instead. A couple of my customers who hoarded bullion since I open store in 2005 , have become wealthy because of the price increase.
Many collect Mexico Silver 1oz Libertads by date. Many dates of these have considerable scarcity premiums per CPG. Jimmy gave his gf a box of Candy and PCGS 70 Mexico 1oz Libertad for Valentines - she was really thrilled. RCI consists of coins with a lot of BV and some with hardly any.
A coins MV is a combination of bullion and numismatic factors. Herb recently bought a really nice CACG MS70 ASE. For MV he consulted CDN CPG.
Started a long time ago " collecting coins " Never really got into silver or gold bullion. Could I have increased my financial situation by " collecting " bullion ? Absolutely. Would a bullion stash been fun to look at ? NOPE !!!
The price of VG SVDB cents has barely moved in 20 years. If you think that's a good investment...
Numismatics are historically bad investments except for the very top of the market. They rarely keep up with other investment classes. But, if tracking the alleged value of your coins is how you enjoy them, that's fine. Have at it.
If you don't think coins also correct and crash, you're cherry- picking your data. Since you're a walker fan, check out the prices of 65 Walkers in 1989. They corrected with a vengeance and have never recovered.
Since we haven't posted the 3000 lately, here it is. Doesn't look like a good investment to me. Would you like an overlay on the S&P 500 or even gold/ silver.?
Maybe Morgan/Peace $ index
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
And that's the key. Have fun!!!
One of my favorite coins is the Fiji Coke bottle cap. It makes me laugh. I don't even know if it's gone up or down since I bought it. But it still makes me laugh.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's nice that you have a collection of only unique and rare. Most people who don't have 7 or 8 figure collections don't have either.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
If precious metals crash, numismatics will take a nasty hit as well. Most areas/series of the hobby have benefitted from the rise in metal prices, and if all that tailwind gets sucked out, people are just not going to want to dump big money into collectible coins for a while.
I would drastically change my coin buying strategy if gold dropped to $1,000 and silver to $5. Many key dates would disappear from the market or be stuck at current elevated/record prices causing no sales with the bulk of the money vaporizing from the hobby. It would not be good.
A friend of mine is a coin dealer. Last weekend he priced an 1892-s Fine Morgan. Gray sheet was something like 80, but the sheet was from at least 2 weeks back. He tacked on a bit and made it $120. I don't remember spot last Sunday.
It would bother me if some of this date gets melted. Its not rare in low grades, but I remember marveling at how high the price was in Red Book in BU, when I was a kid. Especially relative to other dates.
It's still hard to wrap my head around some of these dates not being worth much more than melt.
I like this type of collection! Some of the inexpensive dates are truly rarer than their similarly priced counterparts, especially in the circulated grades. A 1905 or 1906 $20 is much scarcer than a 1904. In grades up to MS-60,they cost about the same. The pop report at PCGS shows about 250 1904's for every 1905 or 1906! I think if gold drops the 1905 and 1906 may hold their values somewhat better.
I like both: numismatic and bullion. Although I am in the hobby for numismatic interests. However, I appreciate the added value that silver and gold numismatic coins have from the bullion they contain. But I do not purchase strictly bullion coins or bars, and have only once purchased a coin solely for its bullion value. For me the history and design of the coin (and sometimes the holder) is of most importance.
I think the greatest bargain in all of nusimatics is "junk" silver and pre-33 gold that goes for little more than spot. Best of both worlds, 2 birds with one stone. Someday I'm telling you this stuff is gonna be a lot harder to get than regular ol' bullion.
I think the “luxury vs commodity” framing oversimplifies it.
Bullion is a macro play. It’s about monetary hedging, liquidity, and exposure to metal price. Numismatics is a micro play. It’s about rarity, demand, eye appeal, and collector psychology. They operate on different engines. If your goal is strictly asset appreciation tied to gold’s price, bullion probably wins on efficiency. No premiums to worry about, no grading risk, no liquidity questions beyond spot spread. But if your goal is engagement: studying die varieties, learning market tiers, understanding surfaces, chasing condition rarity... bullion can’t touch that. It’s intellectually flat.
In the long run, both can do well but they reward different kinds of participation.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I'd say buying bullion is speculating and numismatics is a hobby.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I collect coins and stack bullion and have done both for over two decades now. Although adjacent, I consider and treat them differently. When I have needed to sell for something unrelated to either, I have usually sold bullion,probably to my financial detriment in the long term.
As a aside, I don't believe that a run-up in precious metals is particularly important to rare coin market prices (think auction prices of five figure coins and above). If I have consigned an expensive coin or set of coins to an auction, the thing I watch closely as the auction date approaches is the stock market, not bullion prices. If stocks are up, buyers feel better about their finances and are more likely to bid aggressively. JMO.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Investing vs. speculating:
Buying precious metals can be either speculating or investing, depending on your approach, time horizon, and intent. Long-term physical holdings for diversification and wealth preservation lean toward investing, while short-term trades on price swings are speculative.
There's no history with modern bullion, even though some of the designs and strikes (proofs, reverse proofs) are very aesthetically appealing.
Pre-1933 gold -- especially Saints and Liberty Head DEs -- have a rich history during a time when gold helped facilitate growth, panics, international trade, etc. They're a part of history -- the 1924 Saints instrumental in implementing the Dawes Plan we all learned about in school.
Their survival in hoards overseas I find fascinating.....how some years and mintages surived in bulk and others were almost all melted down...the games played by gold bugs and anti-gold elements over the decades....it makes for a fascinating history behind each coin.
I never would have collected any of the coins I have if profit were my primary motive. I would have bought relatively common crown sized and pre-modern gold, both US and non-US.
Yes.