@Overdate said:
What has clearly failed is money that can be endlessly created by the printing press or its electronic equivalent. Are >we really better off with a dollar that has lost 96% of its purchasing power since we went off the gold standard? I >don’t think so.
Well, the alternative would be a dollar that maintained 100% of its purchasing power.....with a standard of living about 50% less.
Yes, I think we are MUCH better off with a little inflation (~3%) over the last 112 years and a per-capita GDP of about $90,000 instead of $55,000.
Interesting. Please back up your assertion that our standard of living would be lower just because our money is backed by a well-regarded commodity instead of the IOU of a spendthrift government. Include the fact that said spendthrift government has saddled each citizen with an annual interest cost of $4,000 (and rising rapidly) to fund his/her share of a $38 trillion national debt.
First, each cotizen isnt saddled with $4000 in Govt debt. We collect interest on that debt via our 401k, brokerage accts, treasury direct accts, etc, not pay it.
Second....what do you think the economy would look like if you removed the $38 trillion of excessive spending and investment and its multiplier effect that the Govt bestowed upon us. Where would asset prices be? Where would incomes be. Goldfingers estimate of a 55k per capita GDP is probably way too high.
Your wealth is directly tied to that $38 trillion debt pile. It has been a massive transfer of wealth from the public sector(Govt), to the private sector(you and me).
.
This is like George Orwell's "1984" propaganda:
Debt = Freedom
and
"Big Brother" (government) bestows upon you all that you need.
.
Time to climb out of that bunker of yours and get some sunshine on that ole grape of yours. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
@GoldFinger1969 said:
Now, back to gold....the problem with holding the price level flat (which WAS the case from 1800-1910) is the cost in terms of LOST OUTPUT (Lehman Bros !!) exceeds the alternative cost of bank assistance ("lender of last resort") and inflation. This is because prices are sticky to the downside...
>
The period from 1800–1910 saw explosive real growth: industrialization, railroads, electrification, rising real wages, and major productivity gains. A roughly stable price level did not suppress output — it accompanied one of the most transformative growth periods in economic history.
Price stickiness is not a natural law. It comes from features that barely existed under classical gold: heavy leverage, long-term nominal debt, and the expectation that central banks will always re-inflate when politically necessary.
When prices fall and firms fail, output isn’t destroyed — capital and labor are reallocated. Inflation and lender-of-last-resort policies frequently keep malinvestment alive and delays recovery.
Lehman failed inside a full fiat regime with a central bank, deposit insurance, emergency lending facilities, and a long history of bailouts. The company could not have become nearly as important or influential under a gold standard.
@BillJones said:
The Gold Standard is a 19th century relic which has been retired to its proper place.
>
I guess that's why central banks everywhere are rushing to acquire gold at any price.
The Panic of 1893 was caused by the Treasury issuing more paper money than it had actual gold in its vaults. That was not the fault of the gold standard. Also, the Treasury had the legal option (and the capability) of redeeming its paper money in silver, but chose not to do so.
From what I have read the decision to redeem those notes in gold or silver was up to the person who asked to have them redeemed. Since silver was way overvalued on those notes, the redeemers were not fools. They opted for the gold. Those goes to back the the foolish and unrealistic idea that 16 parts of silver were equal to 1 part of gold. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
This "anti-Bryan dollar" showed how large a silver dollar needed to be to be worth a dollar.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
$250 seems like a lot.
I'm going to make a fool of future me by posting a prediction.
Gold will approach $6k, whatever price silver is at when gold approaches $6k will be the silver high and then it will fall from that high to a more reasonable price. And that high silver price will be less than $250.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
@BillJones said:
From what I have read the decision to redeem those notes in gold or silver was up to the person who asked to have them redeemed.
>
". . . That upon demand of the holder of any of the Treasury notes herein provided for the Secretary of the Treasury shall, under such regulations as he may prescribe, redeem such notes in gold or silver coin, at his discretion, it being the established policy of the United States to maintain the two metals on a parity with each other upon the present legal ratio." -- Sherman Silver Purchase Act, 1890
Not too many weeks ago I viewed $100 per oz silver as a pipe dream. Silver at $250, at least today, appears to me to be as unlikely as $100 per ounce silver appeared to be 6 months ago.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
$250 seems like a lot.
I'm going to make a fool of future me by posting a prediction.
Gold will approach $6k, whatever price silver is at when gold approaches $6k will be the silver high and then it will fall from that high to a more reasonable price. And that high silver price will be less than $250.
6000 gold and 60 silver is GSR at 100:1. Maybe Blitz is onto something.
Your wealth is directly tied to that $38 trillion debt pile. It has been a massive transfer of wealth from the public sector(Govt), to the private sector(you and me).
No, most of that $38 trillion is wealth destruction and currency dilution. We don't have much to show for it.
I would suggest you get out and about if you dont think we have much to show for it.
I was in Chicago yesterday: old bridges, old roads, old airports. We should have brand new infrastructure for that kind of debt. Instead, we made transfer payments to old people and lowlifes, paid quintuple for medical care, and the rest went to waste, wars, and fraud.
Your wealth is directly tied to that $38 trillion debt pile. It has been a massive transfer of wealth from the public sector(Govt), to the private sector(you and me).
No, most of that $38 trillion is wealth destruction and currency dilution. We don't have much to show for it.
I would suggest you get out and about if you dont think we have much to show for it.
I was in Chicago yesterday: old bridges, old roads, old airports. We should have brand new infrastructure for that kind of debt. Instead, we made transfer payments to old people and lowlifes, paid quintuple for medical care, and the rest went to waste, wars, and fraud.
Yup. And imagine if we didnt. All them old folk lying dead in their homes and streets. Lowlifes invading your home trying to get what you have.
Are you saying we would have no old folk and lowlife if we were on a gold standard?
BTW---get out and about. Lots of new infrastructure out there. Massive new buildings from Philly to San Fran. Road construction everywhere. State of art farm equipment replaced horses. The internet and access to it.
I wish proponents of the gold standard could go back in time to 1910 or 1875....then decide where you'd rather be.
BTW---get out and about. Lots of new infrastructure out there. Massive new buildings from Philly to San Fran. Road construction everywhere. State of art farm equipment replaced horses. The internet and access to it.
Compared to Asia, our infrastructure is an embarrassment. Remember the show Good Times? The Chicago trains in the 1975 opening credits are still operating.
Whether it was by accident or design, our politicians wasted the money and diminished the future potential of this country.
@Overdate said:
I guess that's why central banks everywhere are rushing to acquire gold at any price.
ACQUIRING gold is different than agreeing to tie monetary policy to a fixed price of gold...requiring a painful internal adjustment (falling prices, falling wages, falling GDP output).
The Panic of 1893 was caused by the Treasury issuing more paper money than it had actual gold in its vaults. That >was not the fault of the gold standard. Also, the Treasury had the legal option (and the capability) of redeeming its >paper money in silver, but chose not to do so.
If the Treasury did issue more paper than gold reserves (not clear), that showed the difficulty even in an era pre-populism and pre-democracy (after WW I) of pulling the punch bowl 10 minutes after the party starts.
I think the Panic of 1893 -- as explained in GOLDEN FETTERS (1992) -- was more a result of various international (i.e., Argentina) problems requiring a withdrawal of U.S. gold and impacting the U.S. economy. Add in the usual banking problems, railroad problems, bankruptcies, runs on banks, etc....and it was not the Treasury just printing money that it didn't have in gold (that may have been the END RESULT after the gold was hoarded).
@RedneckHB said:
I wish proponents of the gold standard could go back in time to 1910 or 1875....then decide where you'd rather be.
Imagine a Gold Standard (or anything other than a debt-based monetary system) still in effect, plus all the technological advancements we've had. That would be a lot better than where we are now.
Your fallacy is in thinking that technological advancements don't come under a Gold Standard.
They do - look at the changes in infrastructure from 1865 to 1910: trans-continental railroad, telephone, radio, power grid, etc.
@RedneckHB said:
6000 gold and 60 silver is GSR at 100:1. Maybe Blitz is onto something.
Yea pretty much that but maybe 86:1 so silver at $70 instead
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
@dcarr said:
Your fallacy is in thinking that technological advancements don't come under a Gold Standard.
They do - look at the changes in infrastructure from 1865 to 1910: trans-continental railroad, telephone, radio, >power grid, etc.
But your fallacy is in not understanding how a Gold Standard works. Yes, innovation and other advances will happen...but they will be rolled out SLOWER and over a LONGER period of time.
Nominal and real GDP growth are lower...that's the tradeoff for a price level that doesn't change and having a dollar that is worth the same in 1840 as 1900.
You have no internal adjustment mechanism -- wages, prices, GDP output -- that can instaneneously adjust to an internal (2008 GFC) or external (Panic of 1893) exogenous shock. So the way the economy will adjust is to crush wages, prices, or output. A longer, more painful version of what James Grant wrote in THE FORGOTTEN DEPRESSION: 1921, THE CRASH THAT CURED ITSELF. Without a Federal Reserve or central bank to "grease the gears of the economy" the entire operation grinds to a halt. Countries that left the Gold Standard escaped The Depression much sooner than those who tried to adhere to it.
You should also read GOLDEN FETTERS about how the Gold Standard pre-WW I could never be sustained after The Great War because of democratic institutions, labor changes, unions, central banks, etc.
@dcarr said:
Your fallacy is in thinking that technological advancements don't come under a Gold Standard.
They do - look at the changes in infrastructure from 1865 to 1910: trans-continental railroad, telephone, radio, >power grid, etc.
But your fallacy is in not understanding how a Gold Standard works. Yes, innovation and other advances will happen...but they will be rolled out SLOWER and over a LONGER period of time.
Nominal and real GDP growth are lower...that's the tradeoff for a price level that doesn't change and having a dollar that is worth the same in 1840 as 1900.
You have no internal adjustment mechanism -- wages, prices, GDP output -- that can instaneneously adjust to an internal (2008 GFC) or external (Panic of 1893) exogenous shock. So the way the economy will adjust is to crush wages, prices, or output. A longer, more painful version of what James Grant wrote in THE FORGOTTEN DEPRESSION: 1921, THE CRASH THAT CURED ITSELF. Without a Federal Reserve or central bank to "grease the gears of the economy" the entire operation grinds to a halt. Countries that left the Gold Standard escaped The Depression much sooner than those who tried to adhere to it.
You should also read GOLDEN FETTERS about how the Gold Standard pre-WW I could never be sustained after The Great War because of democratic institutions, labor changes, unions, central banks, etc.
.
And we also had a central bank at the helm and in charge during the Great Depression of 1929-1938.
Soviet-style central planning of the economy via a central bank will hinder the economy far more than it will ever help it. But it does personally benefit the bankers themselves.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
ACQUIRING gold is different than agreeing to tie monetary policy to a fixed price of gold...requiring a painful internal adjustment (falling prices, falling wages, falling GDP output).
Depends on what the fixed price is. And central banks are ACQUIRING gold for the specific purpose of giving a semblance of backing to the mountains of paper and electronic money they have released into their economies.
If the Treasury did issue more paper than gold reserves (not clear), that showed the difficulty even in an era pre-populism and pre-democracy (after WW I) of pulling the punch bowl 10 minutes after the party starts.
>
It's a historical fact. Look it up. The government created the punch bowl by issuing more paper promises than it had gold to back those promises up. That was not the fault of the gold standard.
I think the Panic of 1893 -- as explained in GOLDEN FETTERS (1992) -- was more a result of various international (i.e., Argentina) problems requiring a withdrawal of U.S. gold and impacting the U.S. economy. Add in the usual banking problems, railroad problems, bankruptcies, runs on banks, etc....and it was not the Treasury just printing money that it didn't have in gold (that may have been the END RESULT after the gold was hoarded).
>
You're reversing cause and effect. international outflows alone don’t produce a full panic unless a government balance-sheet vulnerability is exposed. Hoarding and gold withdrawals weren’t the end result of the Treasury’s policies — they were the rational response once confidence in redemption terms was lost.
@RedneckHB said:
I wish proponents of the gold standard could go back in time to 1910 or 1875....then decide where you'd rather be.
Imagine a Gold Standard (or anything other than a debt-based monetary system) still in effect, plus all the technological advancements we've had. That would be a lot better than where we are now.
Your fallacy is in thinking that technological advancements don't come under a Gold Standard.
They do - look at the changes in infrastructure from 1865 to 1910: trans-continental railroad, telephone, radio, power grid, etc.
That is your fallacy...not mine.
There was lots and lots of debt to create those technologies....and it all defaulted. Gold did not prevent massive economice collapse.
The world's richest man wouldn't be so if he hadnt borrowed $500 million from the US govt. And he would have been able to do that under a gold standard.
Today we whine when the economy slows for 6 months...I cant imagine folk today trying to cope with it for 6 years.
BTW---get out and about. Lots of new infrastructure out there. Massive new buildings from Philly to San Fran. Road construction everywhere. State of art farm equipment replaced horses. The internet and access to it.
Compared to Asia, our infrastructure is an embarrassment.
An impoverished photo of South Asia is knowingly dishonest. China, South Korea, and Japan all have better infrastructure than the U.S. in their major cities.
@Ebeneezer said:
Silver's rapid rise in a little over a year, from $20 to $109, goes beyond the financial aspect. A metal with extreme thermal transfer and high conductivity (second only to gold which adds corrosion resistance), it's use in the manufacturing sector is the greatest reason. Electronic components vital to data centers, EV's and the associated power grid, large scale crypto mines, AI and so on. So one of two things would need to happen for the market to stabilize. These and other industries to slow or the point where alternatives would be considered to reduce cost. $250 an ounce? There was a time when $100 was laughable if not unthinkable.
Yet global demand has been decreasing during the rise...
The next big industrial use of silver is slated to start in 2027 and it’s a South Korea company called
Samsung. It has created a silver ion battery a single cell uses 5 grams of silver each and an EV battery uses 1000 grams or 1 kilo. The battery is in testing right now but they are going into full production next year. The company was very worried about getting enough silver so they came to an agreement with a mining company to take every ounce of silver for the next three years. Silver has to go up because it’s the only way industry will be able to get people to sell some of those 3 billion ounces of above ground silver. The EV battery is Supposed to go 900 kilometers between charges and have a 9 minute full charge. I think silver will have some corrections but the new floor will be much higher than it used to. I almost forgot now people are starting to add Gold and silver into their investments. That’s the 1 that can blow this thing to the moon.
JMHO,
Mike
Yes, except that battery will never make it to market if silver is $250 per ounce, except in very specialized uses. Most people need a 50 mile range and overnight charge. An extra $10,000 sticker to expand that won't attract new EV buyers who barely can justify the price difference now compared to an ICE.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
An impoverished photo of South Asia is knowingly dishonest. China, South Korea, and Japan all have better infrastructure than the U.S. in their major cities.
Just like saying there is a decrepit factory in Chicago. I just give what many of you give.
Yes, many cities in Asia have been build recently, while many in the US built 100 years ago. Of course they "look nicer". But also, just as there are slums in America, there are slums in Asia. Blankets statements like Asia is better will have the blanket thrown off.
Im just trying to keep the forum honest, but most of you dont want that. You live in conspiracies and manipulation theories and fringe news sources. And then cry when exposed. Snowflakes.
Just look at all the mental hoops you are jumping through to explain this recent rally and subsequent sell-off. You guys make the most simple, so complicated.
An impoverished photo of South Asia is knowingly dishonest. China, South Korea, and Japan all have better infrastructure than the U.S. in their major cities.
Just like saying there is a decrepit factory in Chicago. I just give what many of you give.
Yes, many cities in Asia have been build recently, while many in the US built 100 years ago. Of course they "look nicer". But also, just as there are slums in America, there are slums in Asia. Blankets statements like Asia is better will have the blanket thrown off.
Im just trying to keep the forum honest, but most of you dont want that. You live in conspiracies and manipulation theories and fringe news sources. And then cry when exposed. Snowflakes.
Just look at all the mental hoops you are jumping through to explain this recent rally and subsequent sell-off. You guys make the most simple, so complicated.
You and your dishonest debate tactics aren't worth engaging with on this forum. The decrepit condition of this nation's roads, bridges, public transportation, and electrical grids is common knowledge.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
$250 seems like a lot.
I'm going to make a fool of future me by posting a prediction.
Gold will approach $6k, whatever price silver is at when gold approaches $6k will be the silver high and then it will fall from that high to a more reasonable price. And that high silver price will be less than $250.
6000 gold and 60 silver is GSR at 100:1. Maybe Blitz is onto something.
we've ruled out industrial buying and apparently china and india aren't hoarding from the market
what reason would it have to be over $20?
"we've"
Lolz who dat?
you apparently don't want to be in a we, but where is the china, india and industrial buying in all of this?
the absence of asian timeframe rallies clearly shows those aren't factors
It was those kids on reddit that pumped it up. 100% paper driven. Just like with gamestop and all those weed stocks they were pumping and dumping a year ago. There was no increased physical demand other than the bars SLV was having to throw in the vault to cover all the paper buys. CRZY WRLD!. RGDS!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
$250 seems like a lot.
I'm going to make a fool of future me by posting a prediction.
Gold will approach $6k, whatever price silver is at when gold approaches $6k will be the silver high and then it will fall from that high to a more reasonable price. And that high silver price will be less than $250.
6000 gold and 60 silver is GSR at 100:1. Maybe Blitz is onto something.
Or maybe 4000 and 40?
Welp, gold didn't make it all the way up to $6k, $5600 instead, but silver did fall from it's high to a more reasonable price.
I wasn't too far off, I just expected gold to go a little higher.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
@Bayard1908 said:
Instead, we made transfer payments to old people and lowlifes, paid quintuple for medical care, and the rest went >to waste, wars, and fraud.
@Bayard1908 said:
You and your dishonest debate tactics aren't worth engaging with on this forum. The decrepit condition of this >nation's roads, bridges, public transportation, and electrical grids is common knowledge.
Cities and states have the $$$...they have chosen to squander it on more politically advantageous spending programs rather than spend on essentials they take for granted (water, electricity, roads).
It's also why we have a $3 trillion S&L unfunded pension/OPEB unfunded time bomb.
You should also read GOLDEN FETTERS about how the Gold Standard pre-WW I could never be sustained after The Great War because of democratic institutions, labor changes, unions, central banks, etc.
Antale Fekete's view on the subject. Real Bills - self clearing and adjusting. Started to be phased out in 1909 by
France and Germany.....and totally removed during WW1 and never re-instituted. The international gold standard between governments ended on August 15th 1971. Per Fekete, the gold standard with real bills worked well from 1815 to 1914 as
it ushered in numerous technological advancements.
Comments
Time to climb out of that bunker of yours and get some sunshine on that ole grape of yours. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
>
The period from 1800–1910 saw explosive real growth: industrialization, railroads, electrification, rising real wages, and major productivity gains. A roughly stable price level did not suppress output — it accompanied one of the most transformative growth periods in economic history.
Price stickiness is not a natural law. It comes from features that barely existed under classical gold: heavy leverage, long-term nominal debt, and the expectation that central banks will always re-inflate when politically necessary.
When prices fall and firms fail, output isn’t destroyed — capital and labor are reallocated. Inflation and lender-of-last-resort policies frequently keep malinvestment alive and delays recovery.
Lehman failed inside a full fiat regime with a central bank, deposit insurance, emergency lending facilities, and a long history of bailouts. The company could not have become nearly as important or influential under a gold standard.
From what I have read the decision to redeem those notes in gold or silver was up to the person who asked to have them redeemed. Since silver was way overvalued on those notes, the redeemers were not fools. They opted for the gold. Those goes to back the the foolish and unrealistic idea that 16 parts of silver were equal to 1 part of gold. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
This "anti-Bryan dollar" showed how large a silver dollar needed to be to be worth a dollar.
$250 seems like a lot.
I'm going to make a fool of future me by posting a prediction.
Gold will approach $6k, whatever price silver is at when gold approaches $6k will be the silver high and then it will fall from that high to a more reasonable price. And that high silver price will be less than $250.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
>
". . . That upon demand of the holder of any of the Treasury notes herein provided for the Secretary of the Treasury shall, under such regulations as he may prescribe, redeem such notes in gold or silver coin, at his discretion, it being the established policy of the United States to maintain the two metals on a parity with each other upon the present legal ratio."
-- Sherman Silver Purchase Act, 1890
Not too many weeks ago I viewed $100 per oz silver as a pipe dream. Silver at $250, at least today, appears to me to be as unlikely as $100 per ounce silver appeared to be 6 months ago.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
March of Time - 27 Centuries in Gold
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=36590
Yet global demand has been decreasing during the rise...
IN what world is demand for gold decreasing?
I knew it would happen.
6000 gold and 60 silver is GSR at 100:1. Maybe Blitz is onto something.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
6000 gold/200 silver = 30
And that's just for starters.
Blitz will have to wait. India and China aren't about to stop buying.
I knew it would happen.
Maybe....and the physical guy wont be able to get 70% of spot.
To paraphrase your sigline....somebody knew it would happen.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Did you panic and is that why you sold your silver bar?
the physical guy wont be able to get 70% of spot
Or maybe 120% of spot. While your paper dollars are going down.
I knew it would happen.
I was in Chicago yesterday: old bridges, old roads, old airports. We should have brand new infrastructure for that kind of debt. Instead, we made transfer payments to old people and lowlifes, paid quintuple for medical care, and the rest went to waste, wars, and fraud.
Nope. Did what derryb did. Did he panic?
But maybe that sale was just a blip on a spreadsheet.
History has not shown that to be a reasonable expectation.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Yup. And imagine if we didnt. All them old folk lying dead in their homes and streets. Lowlifes invading your home trying to get what you have.
Are you saying we would have no old folk and lowlife if we were on a gold standard?
BTW---get out and about. Lots of new infrastructure out there. Massive new buildings from Philly to San Fran. Road construction everywhere. State of art farm equipment replaced horses. The internet and access to it.
I wish proponents of the gold standard could go back in time to 1910 or 1875....then decide where you'd rather be.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Compared to Asia, our infrastructure is an embarrassment. Remember the show Good Times? The Chicago trains in the 1975 opening credits are still operating.
Whether it was by accident or design, our politicians wasted the money and diminished the future potential of this country.
If we exercised fiscal responsibility silver would be about a buck.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
ACQUIRING gold is different than agreeing to tie monetary policy to a fixed price of gold...requiring a painful internal adjustment (falling prices, falling wages, falling GDP output).
If the Treasury did issue more paper than gold reserves (not clear), that showed the difficulty even in an era pre-populism and pre-democracy (after WW I) of pulling the punch bowl 10 minutes after the party starts.
I think the Panic of 1893 -- as explained in GOLDEN FETTERS (1992) -- was more a result of various international (i.e., Argentina) problems requiring a withdrawal of U.S. gold and impacting the U.S. economy. Add in the usual banking problems, railroad problems, bankruptcies, runs on banks, etc....and it was not the Treasury just printing money that it didn't have in gold (that may have been the END RESULT after the gold was hoarded).
Gold at 110% premium to 200 DMA; in last 45 years, the highest premium was 75%.
For silver, the move is more extreme. "Gold on steroids...bubble territory."
Imagine a Gold Standard (or anything other than a debt-based monetary system) still in effect, plus all the technological advancements we've had. That would be a lot better than where we are now.
Your fallacy is in thinking that technological advancements don't come under a Gold Standard.
They do - look at the changes in infrastructure from 1865 to 1910: trans-continental railroad, telephone, radio, power grid, etc.
Yea pretty much that but maybe 86:1 so silver at $70 instead
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
But your fallacy is in not understanding how a Gold Standard works. Yes, innovation and other advances will happen...but they will be rolled out SLOWER and over a LONGER period of time.
Nominal and real GDP growth are lower...that's the tradeoff for a price level that doesn't change and having a dollar that is worth the same in 1840 as 1900.
You have no internal adjustment mechanism -- wages, prices, GDP output -- that can instaneneously adjust to an internal (2008 GFC) or external (Panic of 1893) exogenous shock. So the way the economy will adjust is to crush wages, prices, or output. A longer, more painful version of what James Grant wrote in THE FORGOTTEN DEPRESSION: 1921, THE CRASH THAT CURED ITSELF. Without a Federal Reserve or central bank to "grease the gears of the economy" the entire operation grinds to a halt. Countries that left the Gold Standard escaped The Depression much sooner than those who tried to adhere to it.
You should also read GOLDEN FETTERS about how the Gold Standard pre-WW I could never be sustained after The Great War because of democratic institutions, labor changes, unions, central banks, etc.
.
And we also had a central bank at the helm and in charge during the Great Depression of 1929-1938.
Soviet-style central planning of the economy via a central bank will hinder the economy far more than it will ever help it. But it does personally benefit the bankers themselves.
.
.
Depends on what the fixed price is. And central banks are ACQUIRING gold for the specific purpose of giving a semblance of backing to the mountains of paper and electronic money they have released into their economies.
>
It's a historical fact. Look it up. The government created the punch bowl by issuing more paper promises than it had gold to back those promises up. That was not the fault of the gold standard.
>
You're reversing cause and effect. international outflows alone don’t produce a full panic unless a government balance-sheet vulnerability is exposed. Hoarding and gold withdrawals weren’t the end result of the Treasury’s policies — they were the rational response once confidence in redemption terms was lost.
I counted your dimes. One dime now equals $10?
A dime is up to $8.60, but who's counting?
I knew it would happen.
That is your fallacy...not mine.
There was lots and lots of debt to create those technologies....and it all defaulted. Gold did not prevent massive economice collapse.
The world's richest man wouldn't be so if he hadnt borrowed $500 million from the US govt. And he would have been able to do that under a gold standard.
Today we whine when the economy slows for 6 months...I cant imagine folk today trying to cope with it for 6 years.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Mumbai India. Asia.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
>
I think I have 77 dimes on my signature at the moment. The ratio climbed as high as 87 before the sudden drop this morning.
An impoverished photo of South Asia is knowingly dishonest. China, South Korea, and Japan all have better infrastructure than the U.S. in their major cities.
An impoverished photo of South Asia is knowingly dishonest.
Par for the course. He likes to say how terrific the US is doing while at the same time saying, "we are weak".
That, to me spells "plant".
I knew it would happen.
Silver is a worldwide commodity. No matter what we do.
COPPER is gutter !
Yes, except that battery will never make it to market if silver is $250 per ounce, except in very specialized uses. Most people need a 50 mile range and overnight charge. An extra $10,000 sticker to expand that won't attract new EV buyers who barely can justify the price difference now compared to an ICE.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Silver.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Just like saying there is a decrepit factory in Chicago. I just give what many of you give.
Yes, many cities in Asia have been build recently, while many in the US built 100 years ago. Of course they "look nicer". But also, just as there are slums in America, there are slums in Asia. Blankets statements like Asia is better will have the blanket thrown off.
Im just trying to keep the forum honest, but most of you dont want that. You live in conspiracies and manipulation theories and fringe news sources. And then cry when exposed. Snowflakes.
Just look at all the mental hoops you are jumping through to explain this recent rally and subsequent sell-off. You guys make the most simple, so complicated.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
A major dip / correction / blowoff top was always part of this STILL ongoing silver repricing recipe.
COPPER is gutter !
A "blow off top" means the end of the bill market. It is very different from "correction"
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
You and your dishonest debate tactics aren't worth engaging with on this forum. The decrepit condition of this nation's roads, bridges, public transportation, and electrical grids is common knowledge.
Or maybe 4000 and 40?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
2000 and 20
Nobody knows
COPPER is gutter !
2000 and 20> @softparade said:
we've ruled out industrial buying and apparently china and india aren't hoarding from the market
what reason would it have to be over $20?
"we've"
Lolz who dat?
COPPER is gutter !
you apparently don't want to be in a we, but where is the china, india and industrial buying in all of this?
the absence of asian timeframe rallies clearly shows those aren't factors
It was those kids on reddit that pumped it up. 100% paper driven. Just like with gamestop and all those weed stocks they were pumping and dumping a year ago. There was no increased physical demand other than the bars SLV was having to throw in the vault to cover all the paper buys. CRZY WRLD!. RGDS!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
China is definitely a factor irt Silver..
COPPER is gutter !
Welp, gold didn't make it all the way up to $6k, $5600 instead, but silver did fall from it's high to a more reasonable price.
I wasn't too far off, I just expected gold to go a little higher.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
Chicago is at war with someone ?
Cities and states have the $$$...they have chosen to squander it on more politically advantageous spending programs rather than spend on essentials they take for granted (water, electricity, roads).
It's also why we have a $3 trillion S&L unfunded pension/OPEB unfunded time bomb.
tick...tick....tick....tick...tick.....
Antale Fekete's view on the subject. Real Bills - self clearing and adjusting. Started to be phased out in 1909 by
France and Germany.....and totally removed during WW1 and never re-instituted. The international gold standard between governments ended on August 15th 1971. Per Fekete, the gold standard with real bills worked well from 1815 to 1914 as
it ushered in numerous technological advancements.
https://financialsense.com/contributors/antal-fekete/what-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-gold
100
That’s no prediction.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5