Grading Questions

earlyAurum

Fellow Members,

I recently bought a coin of value (~$150k). It was stickered at CAC but the previous owner removed the sticker. On top of that, the slab is cracked at the bottom. I would like to submit the coin for reconsideration for a plus grade (current grade is a 63). My understanding is that if it upgrades, the serial number is maintained which would allow me to get it restickered easily.

The dilemma is that should it not upgrade, I would like still like to get it into a new holder and keep the serial number. What is the best route to achieve my goal? I would like to submit the coin only one time to achieve the result. Do I submit it with two separate submission slips? Should I just do a regrade and request to keep the current serial number?

Thanks,
EarlyAurum

MrEureka

I don’t know the answer, but I do know that I wouldn’t rely on forum answers. I’d ask PCGS customer service, and I’d try to get their answer in writing.

lermish

You cannot request the service type you are requesting (two different types at once). They will do a reconsideration but, if it fails, they will not then reholder the coin afterwards.

I see two good options.

1. Regrade - but check with JA first as the coin is not guaranteed to re-sticker if under a new cert #.
2. Show walkthrough reconsideration followed by show walkthrough re-holder if it fails. If you have a dealer you work with (and you are not in Southern CA, the upcoming Long Beach show seems like a perfect opportunity).

I have the utmost respect for @MrEureka however I would not rely on PCGS' front of the line customer service reps for a reliable answer to an out of the box request like this. And having the answer in writing just means (if something goes sideways) hours of remediation/fighting/frustration getting them to acknowledge the issue, contact a supervisor, admit culpability, etc.

MFeld

@lermish said:
You cannot request the service type you are requesting (two different types at once). They will do a reconsideration but, if it fails, they will not then reholder the coin afterwards.

I see two good options.

1. Regrade - but check with JA first as the coin is not guaranteed to re-sticker if under a new cert #.
2. Show walkthrough reconsideration followed by show walkthrough re-holder if it fails. If you have a dealer you work with (and you are not in Southern CA, the upcoming Long Beach show seems like a perfect opportunity).

I have the utmost respect for @MrEureka however I would not rely on PCGS' front of the line customer service reps for a reliable answer to an out of the box request like this. And having the answer in writing just means (if something goes sideways) hours of remediation/fighting/frustration getting them to acknowledge the issue, contact a supervisor, admit culpability, etc.

@earlyAurum, in addition to the above mentioned options, no matter what, I recommend that you take a picture of the coin in its current holder and include it with your eventual submission to CAC.

breakdown

If the cert is showing on the CAC site, then it will usually resticker at the stickered grade. But not guaranteed as JA can change his mind. With that much value, the sticker is likely more important than a plus so I would contact CAC first.

MsMorrisine

rough. unless someone has first hand experience here of same, then perhaps a grain of salt is necessary.

otoh, i don't trust cust service to always get it right even if in writing. can you get it to the long beach show?

earlyAurum

Many thanks for your replies. I think the safest thing it to document the coin with images then have the coin reholdered. I will also contact CAC prior to all of this for any guidance.

pcgscacgold

With a coin of that value document everything you can and that probably is a good idea to get JA's opinion.

I have a coin that was in a P58 holder with CAC. The owner wanted a plus and used the regrade option. PCGS cracked it out, didn't upgrade it and issued a new cert. Coin and documentation were sent to CAC and a new sticker was denied.

cameonut2011

It’s kind of sad that sticker mania has created this much of a headache where you have to dot your “I”s and cross your Ts or lose thousands. I would reach out to customer service, print a copy to include with your submission, and see if admin would flag it before mailing it back. You could also submit at a show.

logger7

In my opinion there is too much money at stake to take chances. Some type of courier service or with an appointment in person and an indepth analysis from JA possibly at a show before I took another step would be safe.

pursuitofliberty

First, you MUST use reconsideration for plus only, or you can also reholder, or you will lose cert #, and that can create a hassle.

My understanding (from multiple sources) is that regrades (or reconsiderations that result in different full grades) will NOT have the same cert #.

Then, of course, it needs to get back and forth to CAC again.

I would employ the services of a known dealer who works with both unless you can hand deliver for walk-through at each point.

EDITTED to ADD: Photo document EVERYTHING

GuzziSport

@breakdown said:
If the cert is showing on the CAC site, then it will usually resticker at the stickered grade. But not guaranteed as JA can change his mind. With that much value, the sticker is likely more important than a plus so I would contact CAC first.

Wait, what? I have a stickered chain cent in the process of being reholdered and then restickered (the holder was cracked), are you saying that they might “change their mind” and decline to sticker the new holder? That’s troubling at best, and BS if true.

pcgscacgold

Yes @GuzziSport , it is possible. Not common, but happens.

GuzziSport

Thanks @pcgscacgold, I did a cursory look at the description of their services and didn’t see anything, do you know if that caveat is documented on their site? My bad if I didn’t understand this potential outcome if it’s documented.

I completely understand coin grading is not an exact science, but I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around a service “changing their mind” on a past determination that absolutely can impact market value and sell time liquidity of a coin.

skier07

@GuzziSport said:

@breakdown said:
If the cert is showing on the CAC site, then it will usually resticker at the stickered grade. But not guaranteed as JA can change his mind. With that much value, the sticker is likely more important than a plus so I would contact CAC first.

Wait, what? I have a stickered chain cent in the process of being reholdered and then restickered (the holder was cracked), are you saying that they might “change their mind” and decline to sticker the new holder? That’s troubling at best, and BS if true.

If the certification number remains the same your coin should resticker unless it has turned in the holder or something bad like the coin being dropped while being reholdered and there’s a new scratch, etc.
I recently had a low five figure stickered coin reholdered by NGC because I wanted the pedigree removed. After NGC reholdered the coin I sent it to JA and it was restickered. I included pictures of the coin in the old and new slab. I did contact NGC to verify the certification number would remain the same and was told by a supervisor that it would. NGC unlike PCGS has terrific customer service and I was able to speak with a supervisor within five minutes.

If it was my coin I would have the coin reholdered at a show and would consider flying to NJ and have CAC resticker the coin while waiting. CAC even though they don’t like doing this and will even say they don’t will make exceptions for drop offs in a situation like yours.

Addendum: I’m referring to EarlyAurum’s high ticket coin.

GuzziSport

@skier07 thanks, I completely understand if the coin has degraded while in the original holder (e.g., PVC residue has appeared, or color of copper has changed) that declining to re-sticker might be a possible outcome. I didn’t consider that possibility in voicing my concern. Thanks again, I feel better now! 😁

breakdown

Guzzi
Since PCGS is doing reholdering, in theory something could happen to the coin or it could have turned since being reviewed by CAC. Your coin should be okay.

winesteven

Two comments above require “clarification” of facts. Here are the facts:

1. In the OP, @earlyAurum wondered if he should do a regrade and request the cert number remain the same. It is impossible to obtain that result. If a coin undergoes a regrade, a new cert number will be given, despite pleas requesting the cert number remain unchanged. I have discussed this “up the chain”, and it is their strict policy to assign new cert #’s for regrades.
2. One of my friends above had a very accurate reply, except for one point. He said that with reconsiderations that result in different full grades, they will NOT have the same cert #. That is not true. Reconsiderations that get upgraded to a higher whole number, no matter how high, WILL retain the same cert number! BUT, then you lose the implied “automatic” restickering when sent back to CAC. That’s because, for example, while the coin in the original stickered holder may have been “solid for the grade” at 65, in the opinion of CAC, it may not be “solid for the grade” at 66. Two additional points here: 1. While CACG in Virginia Beach recognizes plus grades, as a policy, CAC stickering in NJ does not recognize plus grades. That’s why going from a 65 to a 65+ via Reconsideration has the “automatic” restickering. 2. Restickering has a lower fee at CAC than coins not eligible for restickering. So if you get a bump up to a higher whole grade number via Reconsideration, even though the cert # is retained, you will/should be charged the higher fee at CAC, since they really need to evaluate that coin at that new higher whole grade. Naturally, you should clearly note on the CAC submission form that the coin had previously been stickered (at the lower grade).

Steve

AngryTurtle

@GuzziSport said:
Thanks @pcgscacgold, I did a cursory look at the description of their services and didn’t see anything, do you know if that caveat is documented on their site? My bad if I didn’t understand this potential outcome if it’s documented.

I completely understand coin grading is not an exact science, but I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around a service “changing their mind” on a past determination that absolutely can impact market value and sell time liquidity of a coin.

Sticker/No sticker is the same in this respect as an upgrade/downgrade for a numerical grade, or for that matter Genuine/Gradable. Grading services change their minds all the time.

GuzziSport

@AngryTurtle said:
Sticker/No sticker is the same in this respect as an upgrade/downgrade for a numerical grade, or for that matter Genuine/Gradable. Grading services change their minds all the time.

Respectfully disagree, unless as discussed, the coin has changed or degraded since originally holdered.
All that’s being requested is a replacement sticker on a new holder.
If they declined to resticker my chain (which hasn’t changed a bit) I’d be beyond pissed, unless they could justify a revised opinion.

skier07

@GuzziSport said:

@AngryTurtle said:
Sticker/No sticker is the same in this respect as an upgrade/downgrade for a numerical grade, or for that matter Genuine/Gradable. Grading services change their minds all the time.

Respectfully disagree, unless as discussed, the coin has changed or degraded since originally holdered.
All that’s being requested is a replacement sticker on a new holder.
If they declined to resticker my chain (which hasn’t changed a bit) I’d be beyond pissed, unless they could justify a revised opinion.

+1