@alaura22 said:
So, what can we expect in the next days?
Are any of these going to become available?
I'm on the remind me list, has anyone ever received an email/text saying that they were available?
So many questions
@Goldbully said:
The PCGS coin # is 1007588, no data in system as of now.
It appears that PCGS created TWO 'base' coin numbers for this release. Specifically:
~ 1007587 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle, DCAM);
~ and, 1007588 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle Congratulations Set, DCAM).
Edited to correct a factual error.
PCGS did NOT assign two 'base' coin numbers to this release.
1007587 is the "major variety" (i.e., the 'base' coin number).
And, 1007588 is a "die variety".
See my next post, down thread, for details.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Do I recall correctly that the Mint shorted the announced mintage for the Palladium oz last year & the 2024 Gold oz retro design dollar ? I wasn't shopping for those but wasn't that the buzz on this forum ?
Anyways I am glad I got one pretty 2026 Philly ASE Proof. Two or more would have been fun, but one is better than none.
That's is some fast grading for the advanced folks......not sure how that is possible, but who am I?
It is possible because they had them a few weeks ago. The idea is for dealers to have them back, in hand for shipping when the Mint releases the coin.
They sell for a premium because people are, for whatever reason, willing to pay it. As a result, the Mint charges a premium, and makes the dealers pick them up, and then the grading services charge a premium for the attribution, and to push them to the front of the line.
As a result, the crazy fast grading is no accident. It's what they are paying for. Sort of like walk through grading at a show.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
No way to know. Doesn't really matter. Normal sales are more like 30,000. And in most years, it's just a question of packaging since the coin is the same as the regular proof.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
No way to know. Doesn't really matter. Normal sales are more like 30,000. And in most years, it's just a question of packaging since the coin is the same as the regular proof.
That is what I was trying to figure out, if this indicated that the 2027 was going to be something other than the normal 'W' with different packaging, or if it was too early to know.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
No way to know. Doesn't really matter. Normal sales are more like 30,000. And in most years, it's just a question of packaging since the coin is the same as the regular proof.
That is what I was trying to figure out, if this indicated that the 2027 was going to be something other than the normal 'W' with different packaging, or if it was too early to know.
Too early to know.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
What are you talking about? ABPP is limited to a relatively small, fixed percentage of the release. And only to a subset of all bulk purchasers. Those are the Advance Release slabs you see on TV and the web. Those are the so-called pre-sales. They are gone, gone, gone.
And, believe it or not, you are actually validating and agreeing with the rest of my theory. They can't "also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted" if they sell them all before the HHL is lifted. Which is why I think they are holding 20K back, and not selling them via Back Order to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours. "Sneaking them out little by little" to use your phrase.
Whether they actually went to the trouble of only making 40K on the first run, or whether, as you and I both thought, they made all 60K up front, and simply held 20K back from ATS, the effect is EXACTLY the same. Unless, as I said, when they drop the remaining 20K, the announce it in advance, reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and prevent anyone who already purchased from buying more.
But that's not gonna happen, because the whole point here was not to wait for packaging or blanks to come in. The idea was, as you said, to "simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted." For that to happen, to has to be inventory, and the HHL has to have been lifted. Mission accomplished!
I saw the announcement, and I agree with you. 20K more are coming. For the Big Boys.
Maybe you get a taste during the minute they are available. Maybe not.
Depends on whether the Big Boys are allowed to gobble them all up before anyone here realizes that the red button lit up. But make no mistake, they were held back, and will be made available, for them. Not you.
The reason they didn't go to Back Order has nothing to do with packaging or blanks, since the Mint already announced, in no uncertain terms, that they would be made. The reason they didn't go to Back Order is because they didn't want to sell them to the public, one at a time, while the HHL was in effect, and because they can't sell regular, not Advance Release, but regular, bulk, at a discount, while a HHL is in effect.
That is not supposed to be a thing with "hot" issues that instantly sell out. Like this. But it will be now, with 20K suddenly appearing days or weeks after the HHL was lifted. As though they are left overs that the Mint couldn't otherwise sell, so the Big Boys are going to do them a favor and take them off the Mint's hands.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
The number of subs is what it is. They hit their limit.
They will again be available when things go back to normal, and the 2027 coin is not unique, and people cancel their subscriptions. And then you won't want them!
@Goldbully said:
The PCGS coin # is 1007588, no data in system as of now.
It appears that PCGS created TWO 'base' coin numbers for this release. Specifically:
~ 1007587 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle, DCAM);
~ and, 1007588 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle Congratulations Set, DCAM).
I was wondering why they had the 7587 number without the "Congrats Set" designation. But it appears to me -
...7587 is used to list all the special sub-designations, where you pretty much have to submit the coin in original packing (I think). They get the extra words on the label.
...7588 is for the rest of us where we may just submit the coin w/o the box, and still be recognized as "Congrats Set" as the P mint mark is only in this set?
Also -
Anybody else get both the ASE-W and -P proof?
I just got both of mine.
I dont have the most critical eye, but even before I got the -W, I thought the obverse of the -P looked a bit softer, kinda "sandy". Especially in the dress lines, but also the date.
Th -W is a bit more crisp, sharp, in the dress lines, but also in the double-date.
I was considering another -P if it ever became available, but may just settle on the 1 I got with submission. This is my 1st year getting the congrats, only because its a different mint mark. Past years just seemed like same coin, diff pkg.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
@stawick said:
Also -
Anybody else get both the ASE-W and -P proof?
I just got both of mine.
I dont have the most critical eye, but even before I got the -W, I thought the obverse of the -P looked a bit softer, kinda "sandy". Especially in the dress lines, but also the date.
Th -W is a bit more crisp, sharp, in the dress lines, but also in the double-date.
I was considering another -P if it ever became available, but may just settle on the 1 I got with submission. This is my 1st year getting the congrats, only because its a different mint mark. Past years just seemed like same coin, diff pkg.
How about the "frost" when you compare the two?
There are reports of a significant difference between the two.
The "P" (on the right) is crazy frosty DCAM. See what I mean below ⇊...
.
@stawick said:
Also -
Anybody else get both the ASE-W and -P proof?
I just got both of mine.
I dont have the most critical eye, but even before I got the -W, I thought the obverse of the -P looked a bit softer, kinda "sandy". Especially in the dress lines, but also the date.
Th -W is a bit more crisp, sharp, in the dress lines, but also in the double-date.
I was considering another -P if it ever became available, but may just settle on the 1 I got with submission. This is my 1st year getting the congrats, only because its a different mint mark. Past years just seemed like same coin, diff pkg.
How about the "frost" when you compare the two?
There are reports of a significant difference between the two.
The "P" (on the right) is crazy frosty DCAM. See what I mean below ⇊...
.
Thats it (u take good pix, better / quicker than me). I think "frost" is the "sandy" I was referring to.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
Subscription is back available again. HHL1 imposed.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
Subscription is back available again. HHL1 imposed.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
Subscription is back available again. HHL1 imposed.
That's for the 2027 Proof ASE
Yes it is. The subscriptions for the 2026 are now in the past. 2027 is the next release. If you want a place holder till we figure out what 2027 will become, now might be an option for those with no current subscription in place.
@stawick said:
Also -
Anybody else get both the ASE-W and -P proof?
I just got both of mine.
I dont have the most critical eye, but even before I got the -W, I thought the obverse of the -P looked a bit softer, kinda "sandy". Especially in the dress lines, but also the date.
Th -W is a bit more crisp, sharp, in the dress lines, but also in the double-date.
I was considering another -P if it ever became available, but may just settle on the 1 I got with submission. This is my 1st year getting the congrats, only because its a different mint mark. Past years just seemed like same coin, diff pkg.
How about the "frost" when you compare the two?
There are reports of a significant difference between the two.
The "P" (on the right) is crazy frosty DCAM. See what I mean below ⇊...
.
Thats it (u take good pix, better / quicker than me). I think "frost" is the "sandy" I was referring to.
I borrowed the photo from a coinnews.net article, where commenter East Coast Guru brought this issue up. He also confirmed the significant difference between his coins. I have not yet opened my coin packages to compare any differences.
@stawick said:
Also -
Anybody else get both the ASE-W and -P proof?
I just got both of mine.
I dont have the most critical eye, but even before I got the -W, I thought the obverse of the -P looked a bit softer, kinda "sandy". Especially in the dress lines, but also the date.
Th -W is a bit more crisp, sharp, in the dress lines, but also in the double-date.
I was considering another -P if it ever became available, but may just settle on the 1 I got with submission. This is my 1st year getting the congrats, only because its a different mint mark. Past years just seemed like same coin, diff pkg.
Don't bother. It's the difference between West Point and Philly. West Point tends to do a much better job with these.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
What are you talking about? ABPP is limited to a relatively small, fixed percentage of the release. And only to a subset of all bulk purchasers. Those are the Advance Release slabs you see on TV and the web. Those are the so-called pre-sales. They are gone, gone, gone.
And, believe it or not, you are actually validating and agreeing with the rest of my theory. They can't "also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted" if they sell them all before the HHL is lifted. Which is why I think they are holding 20K back, and not selling them via Back Order to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours. "Sneaking them out little by little" to use your phrase.
Whether they actually went to the trouble of only making 40K on the first run, or whether, as you and I both thought, they made all 60K up front, and simply held 20K back from ATS, the effect is EXACTLY the same. Unless, as I said, when they drop the remaining 20K, the announce it in advance, reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and prevent anyone who already purchased from buying more.
But that's not gonna happen, because the whole point here was not to wait for packaging or blanks to come in. The idea was, as you said, to "simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted." For that to happen, to has to be inventory, and the HHL has to have been lifted. Mission accomplished!
I saw the announcement, and I agree with you. 20K more are coming. For the Big Boys.
Maybe you get a taste during the minute they are available. Maybe not.
Depends on whether the Big Boys are allowed to gobble them all up before anyone here realizes that the red button lit up. But make no mistake, they were held back, and will be made available, for them. Not you.
The reason they didn't go to Back Order has nothing to do with packaging or blanks, since the Mint already announced, in no uncertain terms, that they would be made. The reason they didn't go to Back Order is because they didn't want to sell them to the public, one at a time, while the HHL was in effect, and because they can't sell regular, not Advance Release, but regular, bulk, at a discount, while a HHL is in effect.
That is not supposed to be a thing with "hot" issues that instantly sell out. Like this. But it will be now, with 20K suddenly appearing days or weeks after the HHL was lifted. As though they are left overs that the Mint couldn't otherwise sell, so the Big Boys are going to do them a favor and take them off the Mint's hands.
ABPP are not the only big buyers. And neither ABPP or NBB are limited in what they can buy after release (once the HHL is lifted).
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
What are you talking about? ABPP is limited to a relatively small, fixed percentage of the release. And only to a subset of all bulk purchasers. Those are the Advance Release slabs you see on TV and the web. Those are the so-called pre-sales. They are gone, gone, gone.
And, believe it or not, you are actually validating and agreeing with the rest of my theory. They can't "also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted" if they sell them all before the HHL is lifted. Which is why I think they are holding 20K back, and not selling them via Back Order to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours. "Sneaking them out little by little" to use your phrase.
Whether they actually went to the trouble of only making 40K on the first run, or whether, as you and I both thought, they made all 60K up front, and simply held 20K back from ATS, the effect is EXACTLY the same. Unless, as I said, when they drop the remaining 20K, the announce it in advance, reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and prevent anyone who already purchased from buying more.
But that's not gonna happen, because the whole point here was not to wait for packaging or blanks to come in. The idea was, as you said, to "simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted." For that to happen, to has to be inventory, and the HHL has to have been lifted. Mission accomplished!
I saw the announcement, and I agree with you. 20K more are coming. For the Big Boys.
Maybe you get a taste during the minute they are available. Maybe not.
Depends on whether the Big Boys are allowed to gobble them all up before anyone here realizes that the red button lit up. But make no mistake, they were held back, and will be made available, for them. Not you.
The reason they didn't go to Back Order has nothing to do with packaging or blanks, since the Mint already announced, in no uncertain terms, that they would be made. The reason they didn't go to Back Order is because they didn't want to sell them to the public, one at a time, while the HHL was in effect, and because they can't sell regular, not Advance Release, but regular, bulk, at a discount, while a HHL is in effect.
That is not supposed to be a thing with "hot" issues that instantly sell out. Like this. But it will be now, with 20K suddenly appearing days or weeks after the HHL was lifted. As though they are left overs that the Mint couldn't otherwise sell, so the Big Boys are going to do them a favor and take them off the Mint's hands.
ABPP are not the only big buyers. And neither ABPP or NBB are limited in what they can buy after release.
Wrong. We had this argument before, and someone linked to the page. I don't have the link now.
ABPP are a subset of the big buyers. The biggest of the big. And the "A" in ABPP stands for Advance. It has no meaning "after release." At that point, they are just other bulk buyers.
They are limited in what they can buy before release. Which is all we are talking about here. I am pretty sure no other bulk sales, other than Advance Release, are made while a HHL is in effect. And, technically, there is no HHL in effect when the Advance Release sales are made, since they are made IN ADVANCE of the release.
I've never seen it. Which "hot" release in the past year sold out on the first day, with bulk sales reported via the 40 coin trays?
Otherwise, what would be the point of the HHL at all? To limit me to one while a dealer can buy 1,000?
The whole point of Advance Release is to keep the dealers out of the waiting room, and to leave the balance of the mintage available for sale to the public, with the HHL in place, for the first 24 hours. Which they then circumvent, not by pushing them out the back door on release day, but by not making the entire mintage available on release day, and holding some back for later sale when the HHL is lifted. When they can then push them out the front door. Right past you and me.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
What are you talking about? ABPP is limited to a relatively small, fixed percentage of the release. And only to a subset of all bulk purchasers. Those are the Advance Release slabs you see on TV and the web. Those are the so-called pre-sales. They are gone, gone, gone.
And, believe it or not, you are actually validating and agreeing with the rest of my theory. They can't "also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted" if they sell them all before the HHL is lifted. Which is why I think they are holding 20K back, and not selling them via Back Order to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours. "Sneaking them out little by little" to use your phrase.
Whether they actually went to the trouble of only making 40K on the first run, or whether, as you and I both thought, they made all 60K up front, and simply held 20K back from ATS, the effect is EXACTLY the same. Unless, as I said, when they drop the remaining 20K, the announce it in advance, reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and prevent anyone who already purchased from buying more.
But that's not gonna happen, because the whole point here was not to wait for packaging or blanks to come in. The idea was, as you said, to "simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted." For that to happen, to has to be inventory, and the HHL has to have been lifted. Mission accomplished!
I saw the announcement, and I agree with you. 20K more are coming. For the Big Boys.
Maybe you get a taste during the minute they are available. Maybe not.
Depends on whether the Big Boys are allowed to gobble them all up before anyone here realizes that the red button lit up. But make no mistake, they were held back, and will be made available, for them. Not you.
The reason they didn't go to Back Order has nothing to do with packaging or blanks, since the Mint already announced, in no uncertain terms, that they would be made. The reason they didn't go to Back Order is because they didn't want to sell them to the public, one at a time, while the HHL was in effect, and because they can't sell regular, not Advance Release, but regular, bulk, at a discount, while a HHL is in effect.
That is not supposed to be a thing with "hot" issues that instantly sell out. Like this. But it will be now, with 20K suddenly appearing days or weeks after the HHL was lifted. As though they are left overs that the Mint couldn't otherwise sell, so the Big Boys are going to do them a favor and take them off the Mint's hands.
ABPP are not the only big buyers. And neither ABPP or NBB are limited in what they can buy after release.
Wrong. We had this argument before, and someone linked to the page. I don't have the link now.
ABPP are a subset of the big buyers. The biggest of the big. And the "A" in ABPP stands for Advance. It has no meaning "after release." At that point, they are just other bulk buyers.
They are limited in what they can buy before release. Which is all we are talking about here. I am pretty sure no other bulk sales, other than Advance Release, are made while a HHL is in effect. And, technically, there is no HHL in effect when the Advance Release sales are made, since they are made IN ADVANCE of the release.
I've never seen it. Which "hot" release in the past year sold out on the first day, with bulk sales reported via the 40 coin trays?
Otherwise, what would be the point of the HHL at all? To limit me to one while a dealer can buy 1,000?
The whole point of Advance Release is to keep the dealers out of the waiting room, and to leave the balance of the mintage available for sale to the public, with the HHL in place, for the first 24 hours. Which they then circumvent, not by pushing them out the back door on release day, but by not making the entire mintage available on release day, and holding some back for later sale when the HHL is lifted. When they can then push them out the front door. Right past you and me.
That is exactly my point. After release, they don't have limits. I specifically said "after release", in case you missed those words. They are bulk buyers and can buy whatever is available since the HHL has been lifted. 24 hours after release, the Mint could have sold as many as they want to whomever. They wouldn't need to pretend not to have any. In fact, it would be less obvious if they did it before the sales report came out.
But I know you prefer your wacky conspiracy theories, so whatever...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
Please don't confuse the issue with facts
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
That's why he has no credibility here.
His speculation and theories are repeated as fact. Ridiculous.
The only reason I wanted a 2026 Congratulations subscription was Philly P mintmark with 60k max. USMINT did not do this in previous years as they just used normal annual W proof. Last year 2025 they made close to 300,000 W Proof ASE Plus whatever more in the congrats box and 2.47 ounce limited proof sets. In spite of 2x melt I was happy to get a pretty 2026 P Proof.
I open everything from the Mint, if I do not like what I see it goes back, just like that. Buyers keep their purchases sealed in boxes to qualify for special slab labels. I do not care about playing the first strike game, so I open everything. I know at local coin shop they pay zero premium for slabbed bullion with various fancy labels or autographs. For me it's all really all about the coin.
2027 is not on my shopping radar, but with successful 2026 Congrats subscription I am already signed up for 2027 as its good till cancelled by me and anyone else with any and/or all 26 subscriptions. If 2027 returns to normal, common issue annual proofs then it will get cancelled.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
Subscription is back available again. HHL1 imposed.
@Mr Lindy said:
The only reason I wanted a 2026 Congratulations subscription was Philly P mintmark with 60k max. USMINT did not do this in previous years as they just used normal annual W proof. Last year 2025 they made close to 300,000 W Proof ASE Plus whatever more in the congrats box and 2.47 ounce limited proof sets. In spite of 2x melt I was happy to get a pretty 2026 P Proof.
I open everything from the Mint, if I do not like what I see it goes back, just like that. Buyers keep their purchases sealed in boxes to qualify for special slab labels. I do not care about playing the first strike game, so I open everything. I know at local coin shop they pay zero premium for slabbed bullion with various fancy labels or autographs. For me it's all really all about the coin.
2027 is not on my shopping radar, but with successful 2026 Congrats subscription I am already signed up for 2027 as its good till cancelled by me and anyone else with any and/or all 26 subscriptions. If 2027 returns to normal, common issue annual proofs then it will get cancelled.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
Subscription is back available again. HHL1 imposed.
I have a couple 2017 Congratulation sets stashed around here somewhere. It's always good to keep your eyes open and options available. 2017 would have been a really hot set had they not also added the S-mint ASE to the Limited Edition sets later on.
@Rc5280 said:
"And the "A" in ABPP stands for Advance."
A-ha, ahahahahaha...
.
Thank goodness we have him to explain it to us...like we're children. The only difference is that he's the one who appears to believe in aliens and the Easter Bunny.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
What are you talking about? ABPP is limited to a relatively small, fixed percentage of the release. And only to a subset of all bulk purchasers. Those are the Advance Release slabs you see on TV and the web. Those are the so-called pre-sales. They are gone, gone, gone.
And, believe it or not, you are actually validating and agreeing with the rest of my theory. They can't "also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted" if they sell them all before the HHL is lifted. Which is why I think they are holding 20K back, and not selling them via Back Order to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours. "Sneaking them out little by little" to use your phrase.
Whether they actually went to the trouble of only making 40K on the first run, or whether, as you and I both thought, they made all 60K up front, and simply held 20K back from ATS, the effect is EXACTLY the same. Unless, as I said, when they drop the remaining 20K, the announce it in advance, reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and prevent anyone who already purchased from buying more.
But that's not gonna happen, because the whole point here was not to wait for packaging or blanks to come in. The idea was, as you said, to "simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted." For that to happen, to has to be inventory, and the HHL has to have been lifted. Mission accomplished!
I saw the announcement, and I agree with you. 20K more are coming. For the Big Boys.
Maybe you get a taste during the minute they are available. Maybe not.
Depends on whether the Big Boys are allowed to gobble them all up before anyone here realizes that the red button lit up. But make no mistake, they were held back, and will be made available, for them. Not you.
The reason they didn't go to Back Order has nothing to do with packaging or blanks, since the Mint already announced, in no uncertain terms, that they would be made. The reason they didn't go to Back Order is because they didn't want to sell them to the public, one at a time, while the HHL was in effect, and because they can't sell regular, not Advance Release, but regular, bulk, at a discount, while a HHL is in effect.
That is not supposed to be a thing with "hot" issues that instantly sell out. Like this. But it will be now, with 20K suddenly appearing days or weeks after the HHL was lifted. As though they are left overs that the Mint couldn't otherwise sell, so the Big Boys are going to do them a favor and take them off the Mint's hands.
ABPP are not the only big buyers. And neither ABPP or NBB are limited in what they can buy after release.
Wrong. We had this argument before, and someone linked to the page. I don't have the link now.
ABPP are a subset of the big buyers. The biggest of the big. And the "A" in ABPP stands for Advance. It has no meaning "after release." At that point, they are just other bulk buyers.
They are limited in what they can buy before release. Which is all we are talking about here. I am pretty sure no other bulk sales, other than Advance Release, are made while a HHL is in effect. And, technically, there is no HHL in effect when the Advance Release sales are made, since they are made IN ADVANCE of the release.
I've never seen it. Which "hot" release in the past year sold out on the first day, with bulk sales reported via the 40 coin trays?
Otherwise, what would be the point of the HHL at all? To limit me to one while a dealer can buy 1,000?
The whole point of Advance Release is to keep the dealers out of the waiting room, and to leave the balance of the mintage available for sale to the public, with the HHL in place, for the first 24 hours. Which they then circumvent, not by pushing them out the back door on release day, but by not making the entire mintage available on release day, and holding some back for later sale when the HHL is lifted. When they can then push them out the front door. Right past you and me.
That is exactly my point. After release, they don't have limits. They are bulk buyers and can buy whatever is available since the HHL has been lifted. 24 hours after release, the Mint could have sold as many as they want to whomever. They wouldn't need to pretend not to have any. In fact, it would be less obvious if they did it before the sales report came out.
But I know you prefer your wacky conspiracy theories, so whatever...
I get it. I don't understand why we are talking past each other. You are intentionally ignoring my point, and I know it's not due to lack of understanding, since you are one of the sharpest people on this forum.
YES, AFTER RELEASE THEY DON'T HAVE LIMITS. YES, BULK BUYERS CAN BUY WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE AFTER 24 HOURS.
NOW, HOW MANY ARE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE FOR SALE IN THE FUTURE ONCE THE ADDITIONAL 20K DROP, AND HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO HOW MANY WOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE IN THE FUTURE, WITH NO HHL, IF THE 20K WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO RETAIL WITH A HHL OF 1 LAST THURSDAY?
That, my friend, is the wacky conspiracy. 20K were either made, and intentionally held back, or intentionally not made, and intentionally held back, so they could be available for sale later, with no HHL, to preferred buyers. Not you, and not me. If they didn't pretend not to have any, there would be none left to for bulk buyers to buy 24 hours after release. Do you really not understand this?
If this was not the case, whatever the reason an additional 20K boxes and blanks were not ready to go a few weeks ago, they would have taken Back Orders on 2/26. They did not. This is why, since they announced that they would indeed be made.
@NJCoin said:
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
The mint has never been able to predict much when it comes to sales, so they understruck these coins, possible due to the price increase. Normally such a price increase would weaken demand considerably, and it should have, but in this case due to the 250th anniversary it didn't. next year I expect the real sales decline will happen.
So why didn't the mint take more orders like in the past? Also because they didnt expect to strike any more, but changed their mind after the website crash (yes, a 3 1/2 hour waiting room is a crash).
Now the mint wants to sell more, when they thought they had struck the right amount. No conspiracy needed.
Me too! I know you are not a huge fan of my conspiracy theories, and have a counter factual to every single one I ever come up, no matter how reasonable or plausible. But hear me out anyway.
I think we agree that it would make no sense for them to short strike only 40K of these if they always intended to make the full 60K if demand warranted. As though anyone at the Mint seriously thought they couldn't sell 60K.
So, what if, under new management, they made the full 60K, and decided to hold 20K back, beyond the reach of the grubby mitts of the masses patiently waiting their turn in the waiting room last week, to sell to Big Boys later at the Big Boy bulk discount? Think this might be possible?
Think maybe this is why raw prices aren't even higher right now? I do. Just wait and see how quickly 20K disappear, with no purchase limit, once they drop. Please let us all know how many you are able to get.
The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted. So, no, I don't exactly buy that theory. But nothing is normal at the Mint right now. I'm not going to guess at anything at the moment.
Correct. "The Big Boys could buy as soon as the HHL was lifted."
My whole point is that if 60K were sold last Thursday, there would be nothing left to buy, other than a few credit card rejects. Now, there are 20K just waiting to be bought. A few hundred or a few thousand at a time, before any of the people who never made it our of the waiting room ever see them.
Do you think this is consistent with the implementation of HHLs on "hot" releases? To short mint them, not accept Back Orders, and then release the balance at an indeterminate time in the future, with no HHLs. Where some might receive advance notice while others do not?
I'm not arguing they can't do whatever they want. I'm arguing this isn't right. And that it appears to be exactly what is happening.
If they do what they did with one of the military privies last year, and send everyone a notice before the missing 20K go on sale, and reinstitute the HHL for that sale, I will stand corrected. But we all know that is not going to happen.
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26 are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
What are you talking about? ABPP is limited to a relatively small, fixed percentage of the release. And only to a subset of all bulk purchasers. Those are the Advance Release slabs you see on TV and the web. Those are the so-called pre-sales. They are gone, gone, gone.
And, believe it or not, you are actually validating and agreeing with the rest of my theory. They can't "also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted" if they sell them all before the HHL is lifted. Which is why I think they are holding 20K back, and not selling them via Back Order to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours. "Sneaking them out little by little" to use your phrase.
Whether they actually went to the trouble of only making 40K on the first run, or whether, as you and I both thought, they made all 60K up front, and simply held 20K back from ATS, the effect is EXACTLY the same. Unless, as I said, when they drop the remaining 20K, the announce it in advance, reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and prevent anyone who already purchased from buying more.
But that's not gonna happen, because the whole point here was not to wait for packaging or blanks to come in. The idea was, as you said, to "simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted." For that to happen, to has to be inventory, and the HHL has to have been lifted. Mission accomplished!
I saw the announcement, and I agree with you. 20K more are coming. For the Big Boys.
Maybe you get a taste during the minute they are available. Maybe not.
Depends on whether the Big Boys are allowed to gobble them all up before anyone here realizes that the red button lit up. But make no mistake, they were held back, and will be made available, for them. Not you.
The reason they didn't go to Back Order has nothing to do with packaging or blanks, since the Mint already announced, in no uncertain terms, that they would be made. The reason they didn't go to Back Order is because they didn't want to sell them to the public, one at a time, while the HHL was in effect, and because they can't sell regular, not Advance Release, but regular, bulk, at a discount, while a HHL is in effect.
That is not supposed to be a thing with "hot" issues that instantly sell out. Like this. But it will be now, with 20K suddenly appearing days or weeks after the HHL was lifted. As though they are left overs that the Mint couldn't otherwise sell, so the Big Boys are going to do them a favor and take them off the Mint's hands.
ABPP are not the only big buyers. And neither ABPP or NBB are limited in what they can buy after release.
Wrong. We had this argument before, and someone linked to the page. I don't have the link now.
ABPP are a subset of the big buyers. The biggest of the big. And the "A" in ABPP stands for Advance. It has no meaning "after release." At that point, they are just other bulk buyers.
They are limited in what they can buy before release. Which is all we are talking about here. I am pretty sure no other bulk sales, other than Advance Release, are made while a HHL is in effect. And, technically, there is no HHL in effect when the Advance Release sales are made, since they are made IN ADVANCE of the release.
I've never seen it. Which "hot" release in the past year sold out on the first day, with bulk sales reported via the 40 coin trays?
Otherwise, what would be the point of the HHL at all? To limit me to one while a dealer can buy 1,000?
The whole point of Advance Release is to keep the dealers out of the waiting room, and to leave the balance of the mintage available for sale to the public, with the HHL in place, for the first 24 hours. Which they then circumvent, not by pushing them out the back door on release day, but by not making the entire mintage available on release day, and holding some back for later sale when the HHL is lifted. When they can then push them out the front door. Right past you and me.
That is exactly my point. After release, they don't have limits. They are bulk buyers and can buy whatever is available since the HHL has been lifted. 24 hours after release, the Mint could have sold as many as they want to whomever. They wouldn't need to pretend not to have any. In fact, it would be less obvious if they did it before the sales report came out.
But I know you prefer your wacky conspiracy theories, so whatever...
I get it. I don't understand why we are talking past each other. You are intentionally ignoring my point, and I know it's not due to lack of understanding, since you are one of the sharpest people on this forum.
YES, AFTER RELEASE THEY DON'T HAVE LIMITS. YES, BULK BUYERS CAN BUY WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE AFTER 24 HOURS.
NOW, HOW MANY ARE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE FOR SALE IN THE FUTURE ONCE THE ADDITIONAL 20K DROP, AND HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO HOW MANY WOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE IN THE FUTURE, WITH NO HHL, IF THE 20K WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO RETAIL WITH A HHL OF 1 LAST THURSDAY?
That, my friend, is the wacky conspiracy. 20K were either made, and intentionally held back, or intentionally not made, and intentionally held back, so they could be available for sale later, with no HHL, to preferred buyers. Not you, and not me. If they didn't pretend not to have any, there would be none left to for bulk buyers to buy 24 hours after release. Do you really not understand this?
If this was not the case, whatever the reason an additional 20K boxes and blanks were not ready to go a few weeks ago, they would have taken Back Orders on 2/26. They did not. This is why, since they announced that they would indeed be made.
My only point was they could have sold the 20k to the Big Boys on Friday or over the weekend. There doesn't have to be all the shenanigans you are suggesting. Since they didn't, I think we can conclude (my friend Occam suggests) that they really haven't been minted yet.
As for your other questions: I don't know when (or even if) the 20K will be made available and how they will be distributed. They could turn the HHL back on, if they want. Though I doubt they will. The wonky way things have been behaving, they'll probably accidentally just fill the subscriptions again. LOL>
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Goldbully said:
The PCGS coin # is 1007588, no data in system as of now.
It appears that PCGS created TWO 'base' coin numbers for this release. Specifically:
~ 1007587 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle, DCAM);
~ and, 1007588 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle Congratulations Set, DCAM).
I was wondering why they had the 7587 number without the "Congrats Set" designation. But it appears to me -
...7587 is used to list all the special sub-designations, where you pretty much have to submit the coin in original packing (I think). They get the extra words on the label.
...7588 is for the rest of us where we may just submit the coin w/o the box, and still be recognized as "Congrats Set" as the P mint mark is only in this set?
Great question. Thanks for asking it.
I went back and looked at the Coinfacts pages again. Turns out I was wrong about the TWO 'base' coin numbers.
Not positive about the impact of OGP on the coin number assigned. Given that this coin is only available in the 'Congratulations Set', I would THINK the OGP would be irrelevant, and that a submitter would be able to choose between 1007587 and 1007588, assuming no other designations were in play. This, of course is speculation, and an interested party would need to check with CS to confirm.
Again, thanks for asking the question, and correcting the record.
@Batman23 said:
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
Subscription is back available again. HHL1 imposed.
That's for the 2027 Proof ASE
Yes it is. The subscriptions for the 2026 are now in the past. 2027 is the next release. If you want a place holder till we figure out what 2027 will become, now might be an option for those with no current subscription in place.
Now is the third time I have seen the add to bag light up for the "future" subscriptions of the Congratulations set in case anyone is interested.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
Yes. Small sample size. Means nothing.
And, you didn't receive "the correct proportion." You received too many. You got lucky, because you were able to buy 300. 25K were never made, and never sold. The privies were supposed to be spread among them.
Again, you got lucky. Dealers weren't lucky. They had guaranteed winners. And the public lost out. Except for you.
1794 privies were made. They were supposed to be seeded among a mintage of 75K. Only 50K were made, but all 1794 privies were made.
They were seeded among 50K. Dealers who bought boxes of 100 received 50% more privy medals than if the privies were spread across 50% more boxes. Math. Not your anecdotes.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
Yes. Small sample size. Means nothing.
1794 privies were made. They were supposed to be seeded among a mintage of 75K. Only 50K were made, but all 1794 privies were made.
They were seeded among 50K. Dealers who bought boxes of 100 received 50% more privy medals than if the privies were spread across 50% more boxes. Math. Not your anecdotes.
Umm... but the little guys also got more privy medals than of the privies were spread across 50% more boxes. It's just math. You actually only have an argument if they made 25,000 with zero privies later.
Again, you're missing my point. Yes, the fortunate few who were able to buy had the same greater odds.
My point is that the dealers had guaranteed greater odds. At the expense of the people who were never able to buy the 25K that were never made.
They announced 75K and 1794, but only made 50K and 1794. And they KNEW they were only making 50K at the time, since they didn't hold back 1/3 of the 1794 for later seeding in the remaining 25K. And then, if you'll recall, they had the nerve to cite the fact that it would be unfair and confusing to release an additional 25K without any chance of getting a privy as the reason for not making the additional 25K.
The crime wasn't what they did. It was the lack of disclosure. As always. You can be fine with it. I don't have to be.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
Yes. Small sample size. Means nothing.
And, you didn't receive "the correct proportion." You received too many. You got lucky, because you were able to buy 300. 25K were never made, and never sold. The privies were supposed to be spread among them.
Again, you got lucky. Dealers weren't lucky. They had guaranteed winners. And the public lost out. Except for you.
1794 privies were made. They were supposed to be seeded among a mintage of 75K. Only 50K were made, but all 1794 privies were made.
They were seeded among 50K. Dealers who bought boxes of 100 received 50% more privy medals than if the privies were spread across 50% more boxes. Math. Not your anecdotes.
That's the new math.
What they got was a larger percentage of the mintage, both privy and non- privy. They didn't get a higher percentage of privies.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
And that there was no legitimate reason to only make 40K available for sale on 2/26. Other than to make sure that 20K that would otherwise have been sold to the public, one at time, on 2/26, are available to be sold at a later date in quantity to parties other than members of the retail public.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
Yes. Small sample size. Means nothing.
And, you didn't receive "the correct proportion." You received too many. You got lucky, because you were able to buy 300. 25K were never made, and never sold. The privies were supposed to be spread among them.
Again, you got lucky. Dealers weren't lucky. They had guaranteed winners. And the public lost out. Except for you.
1794 privies were made. They were supposed to be seeded among a mintage of 75K. Only 50K were made, but all 1794 privies were made.
They were seeded among 50K. Dealers who bought boxes of 100 received 50% more privy medals than if the privies were spread across 50% more boxes. Math. Not your anecdotes.
That's the new math.
What they got was a larger percentage of the mintage, both privy and non- privy. They didn't get a higher percentage of privies.
Not new math. The point is that the boxes had more privies than advertised, and they had guaranteed access to them when the rest of us did not.
Comments
I have one waiting in my cart just in case.
It appears that PCGS created TWO 'base' coin numbers for this release. Specifically:
~ 1007587 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle, DCAM);
~ and, 1007588 (2026-P $1 Silver Eagle Congratulations Set, DCAM).
If you try the former number, you get:
Image Source: https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/939?l=silver-eagles-1986-date&ccid=0&p=PR&sn=1007587&pn=2&ps=100
Edited to correct a factual error.
PCGS did NOT assign two 'base' coin numbers to this release.
1007587 is the "major variety" (i.e., the 'base' coin number).
And, 1007588 is a "die variety".
See my next post, down thread, for details.
Thank you @MetroD , you should be a detective.
That's is some fast grading for the advanced folks......not sure how that is possible, but who am I?
There are plenty of legitimate reasons: lack of packaging or shortage of blanks, for example. You KNOW this.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Do I recall correctly that the Mint shorted the announced mintage for the Palladium oz last year & the 2024 Gold oz retro design dollar ? I wasn't shopping for those but wasn't that the buzz on this forum ?
Anyways I am glad I got one pretty 2026 Philly ASE Proof. Two or more would have been fun, but one is better than none.
It is possible because they had them a few weeks ago. The idea is for dealers to have them back, in hand for shipping when the Mint releases the coin.
They sell for a premium because people are, for whatever reason, willing to pay it. As a result, the Mint charges a premium, and makes the dealers pick them up, and then the grading services charge a premium for the attribution, and to push them to the front of the line.
As a result, the crazy fast grading is no accident. It's what they are paying for. Sort of like walk through grading at a show.
Yes. Lots of counterfactuals. Always.
Lack of packaging or shortage of blanks. Big shortage of blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
Still doesn't explain why the HHL was lifted when there are still 20K left to sell. Or why they couldn't accept Back Orders. My theory does actually explain that.
Plenty of legitimate reasons. Plus a big illegitimate one. Let's see where the coins end up. Then we can each draw our own conclusions.
They could also just announce that 30K of a 60K mintage will be made available for subscription and public release, with the balance reserved for Big Boys. But that would not go over well, so they don't announce it, while doing it anyway. Packaging and blanks. 🤣🤣🤣
They had a problem with packaging once. And with blanks during supply chain issues. So now they are always a possibility, although never an actual reason.
Counterfactuals. Because they would NEVER intentionally screw around, and favor large dealers over the general public. NEVER.
I see the subscription just popped available. Nothing on the item.
They simply don't need to go to those extremes to get product in the hands of the big buyers. They can, and do, pre-sell to them. They could also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted. There is no reason why they would have to sneak them out little-by- little sheet the fact.
And you can scoff at things like packaging, but it does happen and has happened. Although, they usually use backorder if they know the packaging or blanks are coming.
The Mint also did announce that they would be making more of them, by the way. At the time, we thought they were only referring to the W proof, but the way the announcement reads, it referenced both items.
In case you've forgotten:
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The subscription is now remind me again. Are we looking at the same 60k mintage for the 2027? or has the USM just not updated things, so the number of subs available is still based on the 2026?
No way to know. Doesn't really matter. Normal sales are more like 30,000. And in most years, it's just a question of packaging since the coin is the same as the regular proof.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That is what I was trying to figure out, if this indicated that the 2027 was going to be something other than the normal 'W' with different packaging, or if it was too early to know.
Too early to know.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The real question is, how many times has the Mint produced under the max mintage and then gone back and minted more ?
What are you talking about? ABPP is limited to a relatively small, fixed percentage of the release. And only to a subset of all bulk purchasers. Those are the Advance Release slabs you see on TV and the web. Those are the so-called pre-sales. They are gone, gone, gone.
And, believe it or not, you are actually validating and agreeing with the rest of my theory. They can't "also have simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted" if they sell them all before the HHL is lifted. Which is why I think they are holding 20K back, and not selling them via Back Order to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours. "Sneaking them out little by little" to use your phrase.
Whether they actually went to the trouble of only making 40K on the first run, or whether, as you and I both thought, they made all 60K up front, and simply held 20K back from ATS, the effect is EXACTLY the same. Unless, as I said, when they drop the remaining 20K, the announce it in advance, reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and prevent anyone who already purchased from buying more.
But that's not gonna happen, because the whole point here was not to wait for packaging or blanks to come in. The idea was, as you said, to "simply allowed them to place orders when the HHL lifted." For that to happen, to has to be inventory, and the HHL has to have been lifted. Mission accomplished!
I saw the announcement, and I agree with you. 20K more are coming. For the Big Boys.
Maybe you get a taste during the minute they are available. Maybe not.
Depends on whether the Big Boys are allowed to gobble them all up before anyone here realizes that the red button lit up. But make no mistake, they were held back, and will be made available, for them. Not you.
The reason they didn't go to Back Order has nothing to do with packaging or blanks, since the Mint already announced, in no uncertain terms, that they would be made. The reason they didn't go to Back Order is because they didn't want to sell them to the public, one at a time, while the HHL was in effect, and because they can't sell regular, not Advance Release, but regular, bulk, at a discount, while a HHL is in effect.
That is not supposed to be a thing with "hot" issues that instantly sell out. Like this. But it will be now, with 20K suddenly appearing days or weeks after the HHL was lifted. As though they are left overs that the Mint couldn't otherwise sell, so the Big Boys are going to do them a favor and take them off the Mint's hands.
The number of subs is what it is. They hit their limit.
They will again be available when things go back to normal, and the 2027 coin is not unique, and people cancel their subscriptions. And then you won't want them!
I was wondering why they had the 7587 number without the "Congrats Set" designation. But it appears to me -
...7587 is used to list all the special sub-designations, where you pretty much have to submit the coin in original packing (I think). They get the extra words on the label.
...7588 is for the rest of us where we may just submit the coin w/o the box, and still be recognized as "Congrats Set" as the P mint mark is only in this set?
Also -
Anybody else get both the ASE-W and -P proof?
I just got both of mine.
I dont have the most critical eye, but even before I got the -W, I thought the obverse of the -P looked a bit softer, kinda "sandy". Especially in the dress lines, but also the date.
Th -W is a bit more crisp, sharp, in the dress lines, but also in the double-date.
I was considering another -P if it ever became available, but may just settle on the 1 I got with submission. This is my 1st year getting the congrats, only because its a different mint mark. Past years just seemed like same coin, diff pkg.
Your post reads like a conspiracy theory, maybe aliens run the mint as well? haha
jk
There is also a very simple possible explanation, and that is one of their employees only ordered 340,000 blanks for these two products, and they decided to strike them proportionally between the two products. Nothing sinister, no conspiracy, just a harmless decision to do what they thought was correct. Maybe all that was available at the time was 340,000. Everything doesn't have to always involve some calculated plan by the us mint. Remember the Flowing Hair silver medals? They never struck them all, and there was no conspiracy. If what you claim is true then they would have done it back then as well.
I think the mint is unpredictable, and harmless in their decisions. They are a casino and are run like a casino. These two products were just more chances to make money off of them, and they make money off of them as well. In an ideal world they would be perfect at what they do, but then who is? I have no idea why they stubbornly refuse to do products that would have far greater sales than the current crop does, but that is up to them. The waiting room is a joke for an etail outfit that wants to make money. All of this is baked into a cake that makes it good to eat at times, and other times awful as well.
How about the "frost" when you compare the two?
There are reports of a significant difference between the two.
The "P" (on the right) is crazy frosty DCAM. See what I mean below ⇊...
.
Thats it (u take good pix, better / quicker than me). I think "frost" is the "sandy" I was referring to.
Subscription is back available again. HHL1 imposed.
That's for the 2027 Proof ASE
Yes it is. The subscriptions for the 2026 are now in the past. 2027 is the next release. If you want a place holder till we figure out what 2027 will become, now might be an option for those with no current subscription in place.
I borrowed the photo from a coinnews.net article, where commenter East Coast Guru brought this issue up. He also confirmed the significant difference between his coins. I have not yet opened my coin packages to compare any differences.
Don't bother. It's the difference between West Point and Philly. West Point tends to do a much better job with these.
ABPP are not the only big buyers. And neither ABPP or NBB are limited in what they can buy after release (once the HHL is lifted).
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Everything you are saying is very true, and/or very possible. Now please just explain why, when sales far exceeded expectations, and they sold out in 10 minutes, they didn't continue to accept orders on a Back Order basis, as they have done in the past when they ran out of stock and knew they would be making more, rather than have the item go Unavailable, only to be sold later, and some indeterminate time, with no HHL?
No conspiracy. Just a casino. A casino with loaded dice.
Silver Flowing Hair medals was also a conspiracy. No, they didn't make more. But dealers who were allowed to buy early DID receive a disproportionate amount of medals with privy marks, since they didn't short strike them as well. They just over seeded them into the boxes the dealers received.
This time, there will be more. But without the HHLs designed to ensure wide distribution of hot new issues. Again, who do you think will be benefiting. Hint: not you or me.
Every year for multiple products. It's just a little unusual for something with that small a mintage, but not unheard of.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Wrong. We had this argument before, and someone linked to the page. I don't have the link now.
ABPP are a subset of the big buyers. The biggest of the big. And the "A" in ABPP stands for Advance. It has no meaning "after release." At that point, they are just other bulk buyers.
They are limited in what they can buy before release. Which is all we are talking about here. I am pretty sure no other bulk sales, other than Advance Release, are made while a HHL is in effect. And, technically, there is no HHL in effect when the Advance Release sales are made, since they are made IN ADVANCE of the release.
I've never seen it. Which "hot" release in the past year sold out on the first day, with bulk sales reported via the 40 coin trays?
Otherwise, what would be the point of the HHL at all? To limit me to one while a dealer can buy 1,000?
The whole point of Advance Release is to keep the dealers out of the waiting room, and to leave the balance of the mintage available for sale to the public, with the HHL in place, for the first 24 hours. Which they then circumvent, not by pushing them out the back door on release day, but by not making the entire mintage available on release day, and holding some back for later sale when the HHL is lifted. When they can then push them out the front door. Right past you and me.
That is exactly my point. After release, they don't have limits. I specifically said "after release", in case you missed those words. They are bulk buyers and can buy whatever is available since the HHL has been lifted. 24 hours after release, the Mint could have sold as many as they want to whomever. They wouldn't need to pretend not to have any. In fact, it would be less obvious if they did it before the sales report came out.
But I know you prefer your wacky conspiracy theories, so whatever...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Small sample size but I bought about 300 of the flowing hairs at 730 one day and received the correct proportion of privy marks. I know of at least 3-4 others who did even better.
Please don't confuse the issue with facts
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That's why he has no credibility here.
His speculation and theories are repeated as fact. Ridiculous.
The only reason I wanted a 2026 Congratulations subscription was Philly P mintmark with 60k max. USMINT did not do this in previous years as they just used normal annual W proof. Last year 2025 they made close to 300,000 W Proof ASE Plus whatever more in the congrats box and 2.47 ounce limited proof sets. In spite of 2x melt I was happy to get a pretty 2026 P Proof.
I open everything from the Mint, if I do not like what I see it goes back, just like that. Buyers keep their purchases sealed in boxes to qualify for special slab labels. I do not care about playing the first strike game, so I open everything. I know at local coin shop they pay zero premium for slabbed bullion with various fancy labels or autographs. For me it's all really all about the coin.
2027 is not on my shopping radar, but with successful 2026 Congrats subscription I am already signed up for 2027 as its good till cancelled by me and anyone else with any and/or all 26 subscriptions. If 2027 returns to normal, common issue annual proofs then it will get cancelled.
Happy Shopping !
"And the "A" in ABPP stands for Advance."
A-ha, ahahahahaha...
.
No.... in this case ABPP means
Actually Buying Preposterous Pricing.
I have a couple 2017 Congratulation sets stashed around here somewhere. It's always good to keep your eyes open and options available. 2017 would have been a really hot set had they not also added the S-mint ASE to the Limited Edition sets later on.
Thank goodness we have him to explain it to us...like we're children. The only difference is that he's the one who appears to believe in aliens and the Easter Bunny.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I get it. I don't understand why we are talking past each other. You are intentionally ignoring my point, and I know it's not due to lack of understanding, since you are one of the sharpest people on this forum.
YES, AFTER RELEASE THEY DON'T HAVE LIMITS. YES, BULK BUYERS CAN BUY WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE AFTER 24 HOURS.
NOW, HOW MANY ARE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE FOR SALE IN THE FUTURE ONCE THE ADDITIONAL 20K DROP, AND HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO HOW MANY WOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE IN THE FUTURE, WITH NO HHL, IF THE 20K WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO RETAIL WITH A HHL OF 1 LAST THURSDAY?
That, my friend, is the wacky conspiracy. 20K were either made, and intentionally held back, or intentionally not made, and intentionally held back, so they could be available for sale later, with no HHL, to preferred buyers. Not you, and not me. If they didn't pretend not to have any, there would be none left to for bulk buyers to buy 24 hours after release. Do you really not understand this?
If this was not the case, whatever the reason an additional 20K boxes and blanks were not ready to go a few weeks ago, they would have taken Back Orders on 2/26. They did not. This is why, since they announced that they would indeed be made.
The mint has never been able to predict much when it comes to sales, so they understruck these coins, possible due to the price increase. Normally such a price increase would weaken demand considerably, and it should have, but in this case due to the 250th anniversary it didn't. next year I expect the real sales decline will happen.
So why didn't the mint take more orders like in the past? Also because they didnt expect to strike any more, but changed their mind after the website crash (yes, a 3 1/2 hour waiting room is a crash).
Now the mint wants to sell more, when they thought they had struck the right amount. No conspiracy needed.
My only point was they could have sold the 20k to the Big Boys on Friday or over the weekend. There doesn't have to be all the shenanigans you are suggesting. Since they didn't, I think we can conclude (my friend Occam suggests) that they really haven't been minted yet.
As for your other questions: I don't know when (or even if) the 20K will be made available and how they will be distributed. They could turn the HHL back on, if they want. Though I doubt they will. The wonky way things have been behaving, they'll probably accidentally just fill the subscriptions again. LOL>
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Great question. Thanks for asking it.
I went back and looked at the Coinfacts pages again. Turns out I was wrong about the TWO 'base' coin numbers.
1007587 is the "major variety" (i.e., the 'base' coin number).
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/2026-p-1-silver-eagle-dcam/1007587
And, 1007588 is a "die variety" of 1007587.
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/2026-p-1-silver-eagle-congratulations-set-dcam/1007588
Not positive about the impact of OGP on the coin number assigned. Given that this coin is only available in the 'Congratulations Set', I would THINK the OGP would be irrelevant, and that a submitter would be able to choose between 1007587 and 1007588, assuming no other designations were in play. This, of course is speculation, and an interested party would need to check with CS to confirm.
Again, thanks for asking the question, and correcting the record.
Now is the third time I have seen the add to bag light up for the "future" subscriptions of the Congratulations set in case anyone is interested.
Yes. Small sample size. Means nothing.
And, you didn't receive "the correct proportion." You received too many. You got lucky, because you were able to buy 300. 25K were never made, and never sold. The privies were supposed to be spread among them.
Again, you got lucky. Dealers weren't lucky. They had guaranteed winners. And the public lost out. Except for you.
1794 privies were made. They were supposed to be seeded among a mintage of 75K. Only 50K were made, but all 1794 privies were made.
They were seeded among 50K. Dealers who bought boxes of 100 received 50% more privy medals than if the privies were spread across 50% more boxes. Math. Not your anecdotes.
.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Again, you're missing my point. Yes, the fortunate few who were able to buy had the same greater odds.
My point is that the dealers had guaranteed greater odds. At the expense of the people who were never able to buy the 25K that were never made.
They announced 75K and 1794, but only made 50K and 1794. And they KNEW they were only making 50K at the time, since they didn't hold back 1/3 of the 1794 for later seeding in the remaining 25K. And then, if you'll recall, they had the nerve to cite the fact that it would be unfair and confusing to release an additional 25K without any chance of getting a privy as the reason for not making the additional 25K.
The crime wasn't what they did. It was the lack of disclosure. As always. You can be fine with it. I don't have to be.
That's the new math.
What they got was a larger percentage of the mintage, both privy and non- privy. They didn't get a higher percentage of privies.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Not new math. The point is that the boxes had more privies than advertised, and they had guaranteed access to them when the rest of us did not.