Yes. I found some bronze Roman coins for like $50 at EBay. Didn't buy 'em because I have no idea what I am doing. But, was surprised you could enter the ancient coins market for so little!
Prudent move - avoid buying what you don't understand! But at least if you did buy them, it's not an overly expensive entry. The low prices are surprising at first, but the more you learn, the more it makes sense.
It's simple supply and demand. A lot of the greatest empires pumped out coins like nobody's business. Here's a summary of why:
You're the emperor. You create a standard coin, the basic monetary unit of the empire, out of 97% silver. It's worth a day's wages for a craftsman (say $250 in modern terms) but only costs 75% of that. The 25% profit is called seignorage, and it accrues to the benefit of the empire. Which is you, of course, Emperor Dast1983 The Great!
You're spending like an emperor - employing all sorts of servants, awarding bonuses to your soldiers for their territorial conquests during the Wars of Expansion, building grand monuments...but an envious neighbor attacks, and some of the ungrateful peoples you've conquered join your enemy and rise up against you. Now you have to go to war. But war is expensive. Your Imperial Finance Advisor says "The Empire is on track to go broke by next June." So you ask "What can we do?" The Advisor replies "Spend less." "Nope, can't do that - I'm the emperor and I have to act like it. Plus, we're at war! What other options are there?" So the Advisor thinks for a while, and says, "You could gather up all the coins, melt them down, and make new ones with 80% silver at the same weight. Or you could reduce the weight of the coin a little bit. But in either case, circulate it at the same value. Nobody will notice."
Rinse and repeat until the same coin weighs less and contains only 5% silver, yet is supposed to be worth the same $250. Eventually, people do notice, and they start demanding more coins for the same goods or services.
You have just discovered inflation. Congratulations, Emperor Dast1983 The Wise!
After a while, the empire is drowning in debased 5% coinage. Everybody has lots of coins, and from the outside, prosperity appears to be ubiquitous across the empire...but few people actually possess true wealth and power, and there is growing unrest. Better give away some wheat to appease the poor...
Any of that sound familiar? Here we are today, much wiser modern people who have clearly learned the valuable lessons of history - still discovering these artifacts that have been buried for millennia.
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
As always, I recommend reading first. Learn. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Indian - whatever tickles your fancy, learn about it first. Then monitor the market - find coins you like, see if you can find them cheaper elsewhere, and look into the credibility of the seller before buying. Naturally, you'll need to understand what the coin is called in order to search for comparables.
As part of the "monitor the market" phase for ancients, try this link: https://www.vcoins.com/en/coins/ancient/follis-coins-2.aspx?category=follis I haven't bought anything there, but I was quite tempted by one coin that was, I believe, $26. You will find multiple folles (or nummi) at that page available for under $30, as well as some that are quite a bit more expensive. You should understand what the coin is (in the case of this link, the follis aka nummus) and learn the name & dates of the reign of the relevant Roman emperor before buying. But at least some of them cost less than - and certainly hold their value better than - a fast food combo meal! So those cheap examples wouldn't be the worst use of your money, even if do you buy before learning. Knowledge remains king, though.
@dast1983 said:
Yes. I found some bronze Roman coins for like $50 at EBay. Didn't buy 'em because I have no idea what I am doing. But, was surprised you could enter the ancient coins market for so little!
I purchased a random roman Denarii from eBay for $30, unseen just random coin. Hadn't researched just saw $30 for an ancient roman and did an impulse buy.
I like the coin I got but you can find similar ones on eBay for $20, so a 50% haircut on value. Could have saved myself a few bucks by doing my research before I purchased.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
Like all areas, there are rarities and there are common coins. The $5 to $20 coins haven't gone up in 2000 years and are unlikely to anytime soon. But there are also rarities that sell for $1k to $100k+.
Personally, I would assume that any coin you buy of any type is unlikely to go up much. If you want to get rich, try stocks. If you want to have fun, this is the place.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
Like all areas, there are rarities and there are common coins. The $5 to $20 coins haven't gone up in 2000 years and are unlikely to anytime soon. But there are also rarities that sell for $1k to $100k+.
Personally, I would assume that any coin you buy of any type is unlikely to go up much. If you want to get rich, try stocks. If you want to have fun, this is the place.
Not true. I had coins in a set of Indian Cents for which I paid $5 to $20 which would worth more now. 19th century I overpaid for from Woolworth’s in the ‘60s are worth more. I got over $20 for a low grade Bust half dime for which I paid $4.50. Cheap coins do go up in value. You might not keep up with inflation, but you will collect more dollars than you paid for old coins. Modern coins are often another story.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
Like all areas, there are rarities and there are common coins. The $5 to $20 coins haven't gone up in 2000 years and are unlikely to anytime soon. But there are also rarities that sell for $1k to $100k+.
Personally, I would assume that any coin you buy of any type is unlikely to go up much. If you want to get rich, try stocks. If you want to have fun, this is the place.
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
Like all areas, there are rarities and there are common coins. The $5 to $20 coins haven't gone up in 2000 years and are unlikely to anytime soon. But there are also rarities that sell for $1k to $100k+.
Personally, I would assume that any coin you buy of any type is unlikely to go up much. If you want to get rich, try stocks. If you want to have fun, this is the place.
Not true. I had coins in a set of Indian Cents for which I paid $5 to $20 which would worth more now. 19th century I overpaid for from Woolworth’s in the ‘60s are worth more. I got over $20 for a low grade Bust half dime for which I paid $4.50. Cheap coins do go up in value. You might not keep up with inflation, but you will collect more dollars than you paid for old coins. Modern coins are often another story.
And when you consider the time value of money? You lost a fortune on your 1960s Woolworth coins.
If you bought an Indian cent in 1980 for $5, you'd have to sell it for $300 today to keep up work and S&P mutual fund.
I still think the best advice to give anyone is to collect for fun and if you get any money back, consider it a bonus.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
"and if you get any money back, consider it a bonus."
I don't know about this. Coin collecting is one of those hobbies where you can make money off the hobby. Not everyone but it's pretty easy to get a side hustle going.
I get Komsco bullion coins graded and sell the extra ones to fund the ones I keep.
Collecting doesn't have to be a money sink.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
I get Komsco bullion coins graded and sell the extra ones to fund the ones I keep.
People used to buy proof sets from the mint and sell the extra ones to fund the ones they kept. That doesn't seem to be happening as much as it used to.
If it's easy to do, the one thing you can count on is that competition will end up grinding all the profit out of it (whatever "it" happens to be).
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
"and if you get any money back, consider it a bonus."
I don't know about this. Coin collecting is one of those hobbies where you can make money off the hobby. Not everyone but it's pretty easy to get a side hustle going.
I get Komsco bullion coins graded and sell the extra ones to fund the ones I keep.
Collecting doesn't have to be a money sink.
As a part-time dealer, I agree. But having a side hustle is different than collecting something to hold for years expecting it to go up.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
Eh...I wouldn't say that. I think, for most collectors, it should be just for fun. But if you achieve expertise in any given area, it's possible to make money in any specialty.
An expert will know quickly when something's overpriced or underpriced. An experienced expert will buy the underpriced piece and know where to sell it for a fair value - and a profit.
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
Eh...I wouldn't say that. I think, for most collectors, it should be just for fun. But if you achieve expertise in any given area, it's possible to make money in any specialty.
An expert will know quickly when something's overpriced or underpriced. An experienced expert will buy the underpriced piece and know where to sell it for a fair value - and a profit.
While true, what you're describing isn’t the main focus of “collecting”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld - you're correct, I/we have probably strayed a bit from the OP's initial prompt: "I'm collecting both for fun and for appreciation in value."
I'll just reiterate that whatever your goals, knowledge is paramount.
A serious collector needs to know what a fair price is for a given date/mint mark/grade. And a serious collector should also recognize that grade isn't everything. Some specimens at a given grade have great eye appeal, while others are not so appealing.
Some people don't intend to flip, but find themselves doing it out of necessity to upgrade a needed coin, or to pay for a rare variety or error. For an knowledgeable collector, that's only a small additional step. Some folks are inclined to do that, others are not.
@Dast1983 - my initial comment about Mega Red still stands. Great source of info, and it'll take a while to get through, but you'll learn a ton!
Once you've picked a series that appeals to you, hopefully you've got a good local coin shop. If not, coin shows and/or this forum may help you acquire what you're looking for. EBay has lots of coins available, but a newbie should be very wary, because scammers and counterfeits aren't uncommon. There's lots of legitimate business done on EBay, but it's too easy to trap the unwary.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
I purchased a random roman Denarii from eBay for $30,
Minor clarification: denarii is plural; denarius is the name for a single coin.
Interesting side note: England used the abbreviation "d" for pence until 1971. How'd they get a "d" out of "pence?" It came from the denarius! The denarius was the main Roman unit of currency for like 500 years, similar to what the dollar or pound is today. But, I guess through debasement and the collapse of empire, it evolved over the centuries into the penny - which of course the US has just recently discontinued!
Maybe in 800 years, "$" will indicate the smallest unit of some currency used by a future power! And the dollar sign itself ($) likely came from the Spanish pillar dollar, or piece of 8. But that's a whole other story...
Comments
Prudent move - avoid buying what you don't understand! But at least if you did buy them, it's not an overly expensive entry. The low prices are surprising at first, but the more you learn, the more it makes sense.
It's simple supply and demand. A lot of the greatest empires pumped out coins like nobody's business. Here's a summary of why:
Any of that sound familiar? Here we are today, much wiser modern people who have clearly learned the valuable lessons of history - still discovering these artifacts that have been buried for millennia.
There's a humongous supply, but relatively few collectors of ancients. Especially the bronze or highly debased late-empire silver coins.
On a related note, if you're interested, you could read up on ancient China's experiments with paper money and see how that turned out. A couple good, brief sources I found: https://www.thoughtco.com/the-invention-of-paper-money-195167 and https://rethinkq.adp.com/artifact-paper-money-china/, or the more scholarly https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/rise-and-fall-paper-money-yuan-china-1260-1368
A more comprehensive view of the history of Chinese currency can be found on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_currency
As always, I recommend reading first. Learn. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Indian - whatever tickles your fancy, learn about it first. Then monitor the market - find coins you like, see if you can find them cheaper elsewhere, and look into the credibility of the seller before buying. Naturally, you'll need to understand what the coin is called in order to search for comparables.
As part of the "monitor the market" phase for ancients, try this link: https://www.vcoins.com/en/coins/ancient/follis-coins-2.aspx?category=follis I haven't bought anything there, but I was quite tempted by one coin that was, I believe, $26. You will find multiple folles (or nummi) at that page available for under $30, as well as some that are quite a bit more expensive. You should understand what the coin is (in the case of this link, the follis aka nummus) and learn the name & dates of the reign of the relevant Roman emperor before buying. But at least some of them cost less than - and certainly hold their value better than - a fast food combo meal! So those cheap examples wouldn't be the worst use of your money, even if do you buy before learning. Knowledge remains king, though.
Serving the greater Mechanicsburg and Camp Hill, PA area
https://zenithbullionconsulting.wordpress.com/
I purchased a random roman Denarii from eBay for $30, unseen just random coin. Hadn't researched just saw $30 for an ancient roman and did an impulse buy.
I like the coin I got but you can find similar ones on eBay for $20, so a 50% haircut on value. Could have saved myself a few bucks by doing my research before I purchased.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
Thanks. I did not know this. It sounds like, from what I'm hearing from you and others, that ancient coin collecting should be just for fun and not for appreciation in value.
Like all areas, there are rarities and there are common coins. The $5 to $20 coins haven't gone up in 2000 years and are unlikely to anytime soon. But there are also rarities that sell for $1k to $100k+.
Personally, I would assume that any coin you buy of any type is unlikely to go up much. If you want to get rich, try stocks. If you want to have fun, this is the place.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Not true. I had coins in a set of Indian Cents for which I paid $5 to $20 which would worth more now. 19th century I overpaid for from Woolworth’s in the ‘60s are worth more. I got over $20 for a low grade Bust half dime for which I paid $4.50. Cheap coins do go up in value. You might not keep up with inflation, but you will collect more dollars than you paid for old coins. Modern coins are often another story.
Appreciate that clarification
And when you consider the time value of money? You lost a fortune on your 1960s Woolworth coins.
If you bought an Indian cent in 1980 for $5, you'd have to sell it for $300 today to keep up work and S&P mutual fund.
I still think the best advice to give anyone is to collect for fun and if you get any money back, consider it a bonus.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
"and if you get any money back, consider it a bonus."
I don't know about this. Coin collecting is one of those hobbies where you can make money off the hobby. Not everyone but it's pretty easy to get a side hustle going.
I get Komsco bullion coins graded and sell the extra ones to fund the ones I keep.
Collecting doesn't have to be a money sink.
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
People used to buy proof sets from the mint and sell the extra ones to fund the ones they kept. That doesn't seem to be happening as much as it used to.
If it's easy to do, the one thing you can count on is that competition will end up grinding all the profit out of it (whatever "it" happens to be).
As a part-time dealer, I agree. But having a side hustle is different than collecting something to hold for years expecting it to go up.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Eh...I wouldn't say that. I think, for most collectors, it should be just for fun. But if you achieve expertise in any given area, it's possible to make money in any specialty.
An expert will know quickly when something's overpriced or underpriced. An experienced expert will buy the underpriced piece and know where to sell it for a fair value - and a profit.
Serving the greater Mechanicsburg and Camp Hill, PA area
https://zenithbullionconsulting.wordpress.com/
While true, what you're describing isn’t the main focus of “collecting”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld - you're correct, I/we have probably strayed a bit from the OP's initial prompt: "I'm collecting both for fun and for appreciation in value."
I'll just reiterate that whatever your goals, knowledge is paramount.
A serious collector needs to know what a fair price is for a given date/mint mark/grade. And a serious collector should also recognize that grade isn't everything. Some specimens at a given grade have great eye appeal, while others are not so appealing.
Some people don't intend to flip, but find themselves doing it out of necessity to upgrade a needed coin, or to pay for a rare variety or error. For an knowledgeable collector, that's only a small additional step. Some folks are inclined to do that, others are not.
@Dast1983 - my initial comment about Mega Red still stands. Great source of info, and it'll take a while to get through, but you'll learn a ton!
Once you've picked a series that appeals to you, hopefully you've got a good local coin shop. If not, coin shows and/or this forum may help you acquire what you're looking for. EBay has lots of coins available, but a newbie should be very wary, because scammers and counterfeits aren't uncommon. There's lots of legitimate business done on EBay, but it's too easy to trap the unwary.
Serving the greater Mechanicsburg and Camp Hill, PA area
https://zenithbullionconsulting.wordpress.com/
Minor clarification: denarii is plural; denarius is the name for a single coin.
Interesting side note: England used the abbreviation "d" for pence until 1971. How'd they get a "d" out of "pence?" It came from the denarius! The denarius was the main Roman unit of currency for like 500 years, similar to what the dollar or pound is today. But, I guess through debasement and the collapse of empire, it evolved over the centuries into the penny - which of course the US has just recently discontinued!
Maybe in 800 years, "$" will indicate the smallest unit of some currency used by a future power! And the dollar sign itself ($) likely came from the Spanish pillar dollar, or piece of 8. But that's a whole other story...
Serving the greater Mechanicsburg and Camp Hill, PA area
https://zenithbullionconsulting.wordpress.com/